I plan to install seeper hose around my foundation. The plan is to bury
the hose a few inches underground, about 18 inches from the house. I'm
unsure how I should handle hose and the driveway, since the garage is
part of the slab. Do I run the hose over the driveway, or can I stop it
at the driveway?

I have the same situation with my patio in the backyard, but it's
smaller and I could just route around it.

I'm also looking for a technical term for the following:
1. Something to put the end of the hoses as a plug. Should there be
some kind of blowoff?
2. A Y-splitter for the faucet I plan to use for this hose; I'd like to
retain the original faucet for other uses. So I need something with
independent cutoffs.

Why? Tom

tom wrote:
Why? Tom


I'm trying to get a few more years out of the slab before I have to
resort to piers. It gets very dry and hot in Austin over the summer.
From what I read, putting in the soaker hoses with the proper distance
and depth at least won't hurt--screwing that up *could* have problems.
It won't reverse any gradients that has happened, but the house was
within safe bounds when I inspected it before buying.

That and I was planning on running the hose around in a few places to
provide some water for gardening.

Adam Preble wrote:
tom wrote:
Why? Tom


I'm trying to get a few more years out of the slab before I have to
resort to piers. It gets very dry and hot in Austin over the summer.
From what I read, putting in the soaker hoses with the proper distance
and depth at least won't hurt--screwing that up *could* have problems.
It won't reverse any gradients that has happened, but the house was
within safe bounds when I inspected it before buying.

That and I was planning on running the hose around in a few places to
provide some water for gardening.
What we are talking about here are the very HEAVY clay soils that exist
in some parts of southeast texas. In such areas, swimming pools MUST
stay full ALL the time as they will literally POP up out of the ground.

Most houses in these areas are have a concrete slab on a sand base. The
sand is moist when the slab is poured, and acts as a buffer to the
expansion/contraction of the soil underneath as its water content rises
and falls (this expansion/contraction will CRUSH concrete)

Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of the
slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will crack,
windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the sheetrock
inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.

This link doesnt answer the driveway question, but is useful for watering
systems. Click on the first link:

http://www.homeshowonline.net/hs2/projects4u.asp

Darrell

"Adam Preble" wrote in message
...
I plan to install seeper hose around my foundation. The plan is to bury
the hose a few inches underground, about 18 inches from the house. I'm
unsure how I should handle hose and the driveway, since the garage is part
of the slab. Do I run the hose over the driveway, or can I stop it at the
driveway?

I have the same situation with my patio in the backyard, but it's smaller
and I could just route around it.

I'm also looking for a technical term for the following:
1. Something to put the end of the hoses as a plug. Should there be some
kind of blowoff?
2. A Y-splitter for the faucet I plan to use for this hose; I'd like to
retain the original faucet for other uses. So I need something with
independent cutoffs.

Robert Gammon wrote:
Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of the
slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will crack,
windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the sheetrock
inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.


Do you mean by this that it's a bad idea?

Adam Preble wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:
Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of
the slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will
crack, windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the
sheetrock inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.


Do you mean by this that it's a bad idea?

Nope, folks swear by them. The edges of the sand pad that the slab
rests on dry out, even wash away from under the slab, creating a void.
The unsupported weight puts stress on the slab that will eventually
cause the cracks that I mention above.

In the new house I will begin construction of soon, the source water for
drip irrigation of the slab will be RO waste water.

I'm North of Dallas, have a house on heavy clay soil. Foundation
watering is critical around here, not an option. I had a system put in
a few years ago, it's hooked up to the sprinklers so I can just set it
and forget it. I can share some things with you that might help..

I routed around the patio, but was advised to add a double loop there
so I did that. Only a few feet of extra hose. The driveway feeds a 2
car garage, we did the same things there. Bring the hose close, loop it
back so you have parallel hoses about 6" apart.

18" may be too far away, my literature search indicated 12" would be
better. Depth matters a lot, though - to get water around the edges of
the slab you have to get down far enough so the lawn won't steal the
moisture and so it doesn't have to take forever to percolate. I would
be concerned that a few inches depth might not do much in terms of
effectiveness. Remember that soaker hose volumes are small, and once
the hose is buried you get hydraulic lock VERY fast - the hose fills up
then the flow rate plunges as the water has no where to go. So you then
turn the water off, wait 15 minutes for it to settle, then you have to
hit it again. This still only puts down barely 1 ounce of water per
foot on average per cycle. I run my system on auto twice a day, every
day. In other words, if you are going to do this manually, you have to
be at the valve every day during the hot season for the watering to
make any difference.

The check for enough water is to drive a stake down about a foot and
pull it out. If the clinging soil is moist, your probably ok. Do this
at 3 or 4 points around the perimeter of the house.

Also, don't use a flat garden soaker hose, they don't work well when
buried. Get a real 1/2" diameter self-cleaning soaker hose. They're
cheap. Whoever you find that sells them will be able to get you an end
cap. You don't need a blow-off, just remember when you open the bib to
be slow about it. As for the end-of-hose to bib connection, you may
have to rig up something but that shouldn't be hard.

You can get Y-s with vavles on each side from a plumbing supply house.

Good luck,
Bill

Robert Gammon wrote:

Adam Preble wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:
Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of
the slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will
crack, windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the
sheetrock inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.


Do you mean by this that it's a bad idea?

Nope, folks swear by them. The edges of the sand pad that the slab
rests on dry out, even wash away from under the slab, creating a void.
The unsupported weight puts stress on the slab that will eventually
cause the cracks that I mention above.

In the new house I will begin construction of soon, the source water for
drip irrigation of the slab will be RO waste water.

Won't RO waste water create a buildup of minerals and whatnot that could
eventually cause problems since RO waste water is a concentrated
solution of everything it filtered out?

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:

Adam Preble wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote:

Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of
the slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will
crack, windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the
sheetrock inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.


Do you mean by this that it's a bad idea?

Nope, folks swear by them. The edges of the sand pad that the slab
rests on dry out, even wash away from under the slab, creating a void.
The unsupported weight puts stress on the slab that will eventually
cause the cracks that I mention above.

In the new house I will begin construction of soon, the source water for
drip irrigation of the slab will be RO waste water.


Won't RO waste water create a buildup of minerals and whatnot that could
eventually cause problems since RO waste water is a concentrated
solution of everything it filtered out?

Pete C.

Take 10 grains of hardness and increase that hardness by 15%-20% and you
are only talking about 11-12 grains of hardness. Nope this is NOT a
problem, RO waste is NOT that concentrated in residential
installations. Commercial installations YES, they have systems to
recirculate the effluent so that the amount of effluent is reduced, but
at a price of a MUCH higher mineral concentration.

I'll also use the effluent to water the shrubbery with bubble soakers.

The quantity of water we are talking about is minimal, less than a
couple of pints per day even in 4000-5000 linear feet of soaker. The
pipe fills up with water and has no where to go until the soil
surrounding the pipe can absorb it. These are HEAVY clay soils, often
called GUMBO. A shovel full of this stuff when wet weighs in excess of
30 pounds!!!

I can't tell you about the hardness thing, but the flow rate sure is
low. My 1/2" dia soaker hose about 100' long holds maybe a gallon. I've
checked this with the flow rate on my water meter vs. a volume calc of
the hose, they both get about that number.

The real issue for me is that no one can tell me how much water is
enough, even down there. One expert said "just keep it moist, that is
the best you can do and will be fine". The references tell you to
adjust the water for the sunny vs. shady side of the house, that was
written by professionals, another told me that was silly and did I want
to spend my whole life checking foundation moisture levels? One says
overwatering is as bad as underwatering, another says it's not possible
to overwater to any amount where it would be a problem.. Aargh..

Bill

Robert Gammon wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Robert Gammon wrote:

Adam Preble wrote:

Robert Gammon wrote:

Adding drip irrigation to the perimeter of the home helps restore the
moisture to the sand under the first several inches from the edge of
the slab, in theory, reducing the stress on the slab. Slabs will
crack, windows won't open, doors won't close, cracks develop in the
sheetrock inside and I have seen cracks in the exterior masonry walls.


Do you mean by this that it's a bad idea?

Nope, folks swear by them. The edges of the sand pad that the slab
rests on dry out, even wash away from under the slab, creating a void.
The unsupported weight puts stress on the slab that will eventually
cause the cracks that I mention above.

In the new house I will begin construction of soon, the source water for
drip irrigation of the slab will be RO waste water.


Won't RO waste water create a buildup of minerals and whatnot that could
eventually cause problems since RO waste water is a concentrated
solution of everything it filtered out?

Pete C.

Take 10 grains of hardness and increase that hardness by 15%-20% and you
are only talking about 11-12 grains of hardness. Nope this is NOT a
problem, RO waste is NOT that concentrated in residential
installations. Commercial installations YES, they have systems to
recirculate the effluent so that the amount of effluent is reduced, but
at a price of a MUCH higher mineral concentration.

I'll also use the effluent to water the shrubbery with bubble soakers.

The quantity of water we are talking about is minimal, less than a
couple of pints per day even in 4000-5000 linear feet of soaker. The
pipe fills up with water and has no where to go until the soil
surrounding the pipe can absorb it. These are HEAVY clay soils, often
called GUMBO. A shovel full of this stuff when wet weighs in excess of
30 pounds!!!

I've noticed the nastiness of this clay soil (I'm now north of Dallas
myself) when I just cut 80' of trench for conduit. Even with a trencher
it was a bear and the last part I had to had dig nearly killed me. I
actually did some of the "hand" digging with a chisel in an air hammer
carving out big hunks of clay.

Pete C.

BillH wrote:

I can't tell you about the hardness thing, but the flow rate sure is
low. My 1/2" dia soaker hose about 100' long holds maybe a gallon. I've
checked this with the flow rate on my water meter vs. a volume calc of
the hose, they both get about that number.

The real issue for me is that no one can tell me how much water is
enough, even down there. One expert said "just keep it moist, that is
the best you can do and will be fine". The references tell you to
adjust the water for the sunny vs. shady side of the house, that was
written by professionals, another told me that was silly and did I want
to spend my whole life checking foundation moisture levels? One says
overwatering is as bad as underwatering, another says it's not possible
to overwater to any amount where it would be a problem.. Aargh..

Bill

I'm probably going to have to setup a soaker system myself. My thought
is that if you put a pressure regulator on your water feed and set it
quite low (a few PSI) you'll only be feeding the amount of water that
the soil can readily accept as opposed to forcing it.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
BillH wrote:

I can't tell you about the hardness thing, but the flow rate sure is
low. My 1/2" dia soaker hose about 100' long holds maybe a gallon. I've
checked this with the flow rate on my water meter vs. a volume calc of
the hose, they both get about that number.

The real issue for me is that no one can tell me how much water is
enough, even down there. One expert said "just keep it moist, that is
the best you can do and will be fine". The references tell you to
adjust the water for the sunny vs. shady side of the house, that was
written by professionals, another told me that was silly and did I want
to spend my whole life checking foundation moisture levels? One says
overwatering is as bad as underwatering, another says it's not possible
to overwater to any amount where it would be a problem.. Aargh..

Bill


I'm probably going to have to setup a soaker system myself. My thought
is that if you put a pressure regulator on your water feed and set it
quite low (a few PSI) you'll only be feeding the amount of water that
the soil can readily accept as opposed to forcing it.

Pete C.

Here's the thing. With a buried soaker hose in a heavy clay soil (where
we need this watering the most), all you do is pump up the hose to the
pressure of the inlet water, shut it off and the hose sweats minute
amounts of water until the soil surrounding it can accept no more water,
i.e. pressure equalizes. The hose does not empty, it just stops
sweating. The surface soil will not become saturated.

We may have hose length that holds 2 gallons of water, but the hose will
distribute only a pint or so of that at a time.

Overwatering can and does occur if it is done with surface watering.
Dry sand at the edges of the foundation washes away from under the
foundation and out into the yard. Most commonly, this happens during
thundershowers or tropical storms/hurricanes that rip thru the Gulf
Coast States

The pressure regulator you are discussing will only work with normal to
sandy soils. Heavy clay soils that NEED this watering accept water
SLOWLY. In the coastal plain of southeast Texas, we have flat land,
heavy clay soils, and over 44 inches of annual rainfall. Flooding is a
BIG problem.

My hose drains completely in about half an hour. If I check the flow
rate at the water meter when it first comes on, it dumps about a gallon
into the soaker hose. Valve shuts off in 2 minutes. Come back 5 minutes
later and cycle it again and there is very little movement on the
meter flow indicator as the water hasn't moved much out of the hose.
But, wait 30 minutes and cycle it again, and it will take another
gallon. My daily cycle is 2 valve open/closes about 45 minutes apart.

Of course, it may be that I have a fissure here and there over the 100'
run that drains off that water which the soil immediately around the
hose holes doesn't eventually take, I don't know.

The one structural engineer that talked to me about overwatering in
clay noted that the soil will take what it can, then just won't
supersaturate - the water just won't move out of the hose. He indicated
that foundation edge effects pushing up are far less bothersome than
the opposite - clay collapsing downwards due to extreme dryness, which
will cause serious slab cracking a lot sooner.

I can't tell you a thing about sandy soils. It's hard enough dealing
with the gumbo...

Bill