I went to visit my mother and noticed a new pump was installed next to
the old unit, the pit cover is steel 5ft wide with several acess covers,
so it fit in fine. I was told by my mom the old unit would not turn off,
the plumber turned it off, told her it was "obsolete, broke, a new unit
needed". The pump is in a 80 yr old house built to the highest standard
then, it is apx a 500- 800 gallon pit, the pump is 240v with alarm bell
system, the motor itself is apx 1ft wide by 14 " high. The motor unit is
2ft above the floor. It is a commercial unit that works well, is oiled
every 6 months and in 30 years stuck on once from a sock falling off the
laundry machine. Even with the pump off in spring for weeks no flooding
ever occured. A basement sink and washing machine drain into it as does
the Tile system. Ive checked the brushes on the motor and even after
possibly 30-80 years have 30% life left, it operates well, I oil its 5
ports regularly, every 6 months. I imagine it is a 2-4000$ commercial
unit to replace today. The plumber turned off the pump at the units
separate hardwired breaker box , my mom did not know how to do this.
[On the receipt the plumber states she turned it off] she said this is
a not true, that is why she called them.

Well being the very suspicious person I am, I figured it was a
50-100$ bad switch or rusted out shaft or bushing. So I flipped it on
expecting nothing , but it pumped, it cycled, the switch worked fine as
I expected, and I re tested it many, many times, and all is fine.
Knowing the 2nd floor laundry shute is above and slightly in front,
that the dryer rests on part of the pit, and having pulled laundry off
the pump many many times im guessing something might have caught on the
exposed float rod or switch handle keeping it from shutting off.

So now im angry and check the install. The new 120v 1.5" pump the
plumber plugged into the dryer 15a circuit with a power strip sitting on
the floor , behind the washer-dryer, plugging the dryer in that also. I
don`t know amp draw of either unit but guess that if both turn on at the
same time the 15a fuse will likely blow. So I get a bit more angry. I
notice the plumber put a check valve at the pump base, not at the 7ft
ceiling as I thought should be done, but then I noticed the old pump had
no check valve that an Air Trap was designed into the discharge pipe
flowing outside at the ceiling, I don`t see the new unit needed one and
this one was most likely improperly installed to low anyway.

I am planning on contacting and recording a conversation with the
plumber [here it is legal for me to record conversations] possibly get a
permit, and city inspector out. I wont know if the Stop Pay order was
successful until Monday. Now I have 2 good pumps. In Ilinois penalites
can be doubled for ripping off the elderly, my mom is 88. What would you
have done and do now.

you need to supervise when anyone is working at her home. Older folks
ae easy prey for cons

I would go after the jerk

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I went to visit my mother and noticed a new pump was installed next to
the old unit,

snip

I am planning on contacting and recording a conversation with the
plumber [here it is legal for me to record conversations] possibly get a
permit, and city inspector out. I wont know if the Stop Pay order was
successful until Monday. Now I have 2 good pumps. In Ilinois penalites
can be doubled for ripping off the elderly, my mom is 88. What would you
have done and do now.

I'd call the plumber, explain the situation and ask for a full refund.
Point out that if he accepts the deal, he won't be subject to the 2x damages
because he ripped off the elderly. I bet it'll be a long time before he
tries a stunt like that again.

KB

Be very nice and civil when you talk to the Bozo. You might be better off
turning it over now to the AG's office. They have people that specialize in
going after those rip off artists.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I went to visit my mother and noticed a new pump was installed next to
the old unit, the pit cover is steel 5ft wide with several acess covers,
so it fit in fine. I was told by my mom the old unit would not turn off,
the plumber turned it off, told her it was "obsolete, broke, a new unit
needed". The pump is in a 80 yr old house built to the highest standard
then, it is apx a 500- 800 gallon pit, the pump is 240v with alarm bell
system, the motor itself is apx 1ft wide by 14 " high. The motor unit is
2ft above the floor. It is a commercial unit that works well, is oiled
every 6 months and in 30 years stuck on once from a sock falling off the
laundry machine. Even with the pump off in spring for weeks no flooding
ever occured. A basement sink and washing machine drain into it as does
the Tile system. Ive checked the brushes on the motor and even after
possibly 30-80 years have 30% life left, it operates well, I oil its 5
ports regularly, every 6 months. I imagine it is a 2-4000$ commercial
unit to replace today. The plumber turned off the pump at the units
separate hardwired breaker box , my mom did not know how to do this.
[On the receipt the plumber states she turned it off] she said this is
a not true, that is why she called them.

Well being the very suspicious person I am, I figured it was a
50-100$ bad switch or rusted out shaft or bushing. So I flipped it on
expecting nothing , but it pumped, it cycled, the switch worked fine as
I expected, and I re tested it many, many times, and all is fine.
Knowing the 2nd floor laundry shute is above and slightly in front,
that the dryer rests on part of the pit, and having pulled laundry off
the pump many many times im guessing something might have caught on the
exposed float rod or switch handle keeping it from shutting off.

So now im angry and check the install. The new 120v 1.5" pump the
plumber plugged into the dryer 15a circuit with a power strip sitting on
the floor , behind the washer-dryer, plugging the dryer in that also. I
don`t know amp draw of either unit but guess that if both turn on at the
same time the 15a fuse will likely blow. So I get a bit more angry. I
notice the plumber put a check valve at the pump base, not at the 7ft
ceiling as I thought should be done, but then I noticed the old pump had
no check valve that an Air Trap was designed into the discharge pipe
flowing outside at the ceiling, I don`t see the new unit needed one and
this one was most likely improperly installed to low anyway.

I am planning on contacting and recording a conversation with the
plumber [here it is legal for me to record conversations] possibly get a
permit, and city inspector out. I wont know if the Stop Pay order was
successful until Monday. Now I have 2 good pumps. In Ilinois penalites
can be doubled for ripping off the elderly, my mom is 88. What would you
have done and do now.

I'd start the recorder and call the plumber first, and see if he
was aware of the work that was done at your house, and I'd let
him know that I was "just" following up because of her advanced
age and wondered ... .
If he falls all over himself to straighten out a possibly bad
situation, I'd probably feel satisfied if he was prompt and
seemed to mean what he was saying.
If he blows you off, I'd probably have to calmly ask him is he
was aware of the double-charges, etc, he could be liable for, and
see what he has to say to your recorder.
If he's obstinate about it, I'd still probably try to use a
calm, polite but firm stance with him to try to get his opinions
and standings on these matters, whatever he'd like to say.

If no win-win appears, then I'd be sorely tempted to:
1. Take him to small claims court to start with, where the
recording would be fully admissable as evidence where that's not
necessarily so in a full court proceeding. This way you have a
chance to recoup some money, and mayb e even a punitive up to the
limit of the particular court, sometimes $5,000 or more.
2. And I would also at the same time file a complaint with the
state attorney general's office if the situation seemed as cruddy
as you state it does.
3. And even though everyone says it's a useless effort, you
included, I would also file a complaint with the BBB and possibly
the licensing bureau if I knew who it was.


Just my 2 cents. And no, I'm not about to debate the value or
lack thereof of the BBB, so this's my last mention of it in this
thread g.

Pop





"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
I went to visit my mother and noticed a new pump was installed
next to
the old unit, the pit cover is steel 5ft wide with several
acess covers,
so it fit in fine. I was told by my mom the old unit would not
turn off,
the plumber turned it off, told her it was "obsolete, broke, a
new unit
needed". The pump is in a 80 yr old house built to the highest
standard
then, it is apx a 500- 800 gallon pit, the pump is 240v with
alarm bell
system, the motor itself is apx 1ft wide by 14 " high. The
motor unit is
2ft above the floor. It is a commercial unit that works well,
is oiled
every 6 months and in 30 years stuck on once from a sock
falling off the
laundry machine. Even with the pump off in spring for weeks no
flooding
ever occured. A basement sink and washing machine drain into it
as does
the Tile system. Ive checked the brushes on the motor and even
after
possibly 30-80 years have 30% life left, it operates well, I
oil its 5
ports regularly, every 6 months. I imagine it is a 2-4000$
commercial
unit to replace today. The plumber turned off the pump at the
units
separate hardwired breaker box , my mom did not know how to do
this.
[On the receipt the plumber states she turned it off] she said
this is
a not true, that is why she called them.

Well being the very suspicious person I am, I figured it was
a
50-100$ bad switch or rusted out shaft or bushing. So I flipped
it on
expecting nothing , but it pumped, it cycled, the switch worked
fine as
I expected, and I re tested it many, many times, and all is
fine.
Knowing the 2nd floor laundry shute is above and slightly in
front,
that the dryer rests on part of the pit, and having pulled
laundry off
the pump many many times im guessing something might have
caught on the
exposed float rod or switch handle keeping it from shutting
off.

So now im angry and check the install. The new 120v 1.5" pump
the
plumber plugged into the dryer 15a circuit with a power strip
sitting on
the floor , behind the washer-dryer, plugging the dryer in that
also. I
don`t know amp draw of either unit but guess that if both turn
on at the
same time the 15a fuse will likely blow. So I get a bit more
angry. I
notice the plumber put a check valve at the pump base, not at
the 7ft
ceiling as I thought should be done, but then I noticed the old
pump had
no check valve that an Air Trap was designed into the discharge
pipe
flowing outside at the ceiling, I don`t see the new unit
needed one and
this one was most likely improperly installed to low anyway.

I am planning on contacting and recording a conversation with
the
plumber [here it is legal for me to record conversations]
possibly get a
permit, and city inspector out. I wont know if the Stop Pay
order was
successful until Monday. Now I have 2 good pumps. In Ilinois
penalites
can be doubled for ripping off the elderly, my mom is 88. What
would you
have done and do now.

I wopuld go for the jugular, call him and record whatever he says then
use it against him wether or not he tries to make nice.

you do the crime you do the time..........

he deserves whatever he gets!

m Ransley wrote:
I went to visit my mother and noticed a new pump was installed next to
the old unit, the pit cover is steel 5ft wide with several acess covers,
so it fit in fine. I was told by my mom the old unit would not turn off,
the plumber turned it off, told her it was "obsolete, broke, a new unit
needed". The pump is in a 80 yr old house built to the highest standard
then, it is apx a 500- 800 gallon pit, the pump is 240v with alarm bell
system, the motor itself is apx 1ft wide by 14 " high. The motor unit is
2ft above the floor. It is a commercial unit that works well, is oiled
every 6 months and in 30 years stuck on once from a sock falling off the
laundry machine. Even with the pump off in spring for weeks no flooding
ever occured. A basement sink and washing machine drain into it as does
the Tile system. Ive checked the brushes on the motor and even after
possibly 30-80 years have 30% life left, it operates well, I oil its 5
ports regularly, every 6 months. I imagine it is a 2-4000$ commercial
unit to replace today. The plumber turned off the pump at the units
separate hardwired breaker box , my mom did not know how to do this.
[On the receipt the plumber states she turned it off] she said this is
a not true, that is why she called them.

Well being the very suspicious person I am, I figured it was a
50-100$ bad switch or rusted out shaft or bushing. So I flipped it on
expecting nothing , but it pumped, it cycled, the switch worked fine as
I expected, and I re tested it many, many times, and all is fine.
Knowing the 2nd floor laundry shute is above and slightly in front,
that the dryer rests on part of the pit, and having pulled laundry off
the pump many many times im guessing something might have caught on the
exposed float rod or switch handle keeping it from shutting off.

So now im angry and check the install. The new 120v 1.5" pump the
plumber plugged into the dryer 15a circuit with a power strip sitting on
the floor , behind the washer-dryer, plugging the dryer in that also. I
don`t know amp draw of either unit but guess that if both turn on at the
same time the 15a fuse will likely blow. So I get a bit more angry. I
notice the plumber put a check valve at the pump base, not at the 7ft
ceiling as I thought should be done, but then I noticed the old pump had
no check valve that an Air Trap was designed into the discharge pipe
flowing outside at the ceiling, I don`t see the new unit needed one and
this one was most likely improperly installed to low anyway.

I am planning on contacting and recording a conversation with the
plumber [here it is legal for me to record conversations] possibly get a
permit, and city inspector out. I wont know if the Stop Pay order was
successful until Monday. Now I have 2 good pumps. In Ilinois penalites
can be doubled for ripping off the elderly, my mom is 88. What would you
have done and do now.



Well i'm ****ed off just reading it. However, there is another side.

You said the pump was old, the plumber seemed to agree with that. He
may not know that you are servicing the thing every 6 months. He may
put the new one up because if he just tweaked the old one and then it
breaks and ruins her basement he would feel he did her a disservice by
trying to save a few bucks. The check valve installation is proper.
Sometimes check valves are installed higher on the pipe (like mine)
because they make convenient disconnect points when you are removing the
pump, but that is an inferior location. Not sure what good the air trap
would do for water backflow. As for why the pump was stuck on, it could
have just been dirty or something. Mine sticks on when it gets dirty.
usually calls for full cleaning not just getting it to turn off.

Now the elcheapo power strip installed on the _floor_ behind the washing
machine is just stupid and any plumber should know better. Of course he
could ask for an electrician to install a new 120v outlet for the pump.


I would talk to him first. Theres legitimate reasons for lots of this
stuff. You may buy it, or you may not.





--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

I talked to him today, he did not pull a permit even though the job was
done 4 days after his first visit, so the city is comming out and
sending him a citation, that is a start. He said the pump wires were
disconnected and he could not test it, well the wires are intact and the
corrosion eveywhere will show all is original and untouched, so he lied
to me. Bottom line the old pump works fine. If he was smart he would
have removed the evidence-the old pump.

m Ransley wrote:
I talked to him today, he did not pull a permit even though the job was
done 4 days after his first visit, so the city is comming out and
sending him a citation, that is a start. He said the pump wires were
disconnected and he could not test it, well the wires are intact and the
corrosion eveywhere will show all is original and untouched, so he lied
to me. Bottom line the old pump works fine. If he was smart he would
have removed the evidence-the old pump.


If he couldn't test it he should not have touched it. Thats shadey. I
hope he gets whats coming to him.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16