Hi Folks,

My Trane XL1400 heat pump 'died' over the weekend. The repair person
from the company that installed it said the "compressor shorted to
ground"... and that it was basically time for a new unit.. This unit
was installed in 1993 - so - 13 years... He then arranged a Sales call
(who said they couldn't get out here for 4 days!!)

Later in the afternoon, I contacted an independent guy, that's been in
ac for a number of years and is just recently starting on his own
business - he came highly recommended by my electrician (who is a
friend that i trust). This second person basically said "This is a
Trane - a top of the line Trane - your air handler is in good
condition, and the outside unit is in good condition... minus the
compressor - i'll be happy to install a whole new unit if that is what
you want, but you can just replace this compressor for a fifth of the
cost and be fine"...

The 'new' compressor would only have a 1 year warranty on parts and
labor.. Several times I kept questioning on if replacing the
compressor would be the way to go - and each time he pointed out that
the rest of the unit was in fine shape... (even saying he'd be happy
to do the job so that he could take the old unit and put it in his
home.. lol)

A key factor here is that we've only been in this house 1 year, and the
previous owners had a few service calls on the unit - always for
tripping the breaker and for putting new start caps on..

Well - the unit was on a 'dual breaker' that controlled both the
compressor AND our dryer! Also it's an old 150 amp panel w/ aluminum
wiring (running the heat pump, a pool, a jacuzzi, and the whole
house).. Even the home inspector recommended replacing (upgrading)
the panel before we moved in... That is being done this Friday...

The electrician and the second guy both felt strongly that the way they
had this wired could be the main culprit behind the electrical problems
this unit has had - and that upgrading the panel could certainly go a
long way in alleviating that.

Given that - any second opinions out there?? I'm about sold on just
replacing the compressor - granted i know nothing about heat pumps and
hvac, but when they took the unit apart, it was
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry clean - i was shocked and how good everything
looked! Makes it tough to just say 'haul it away' and drop $5k on a
new unit - but - am i just asking for trouble by not replacing the
whole thing??

I still have 3 other companies coming to give me estimates on a full
replacement - just so i'll have some figures (including the original
company 4 days from now - ??!!?.)

sorry so long - thanks for any feedback!

If the air handler and the condenser each look like they are in good
shape, I would suggest replacing just the compressor. You'll save quite
a bit of $ and at least you'll have a year warranty. As long as it
wasn't a burn-out and just a short that killed the compressor, you
should be ok. Be sure the tech properly vacuums down the system for at
least half an hour before he charges the system.

As for the wiring, obviously needs upgrading. At the least, I would not
use the dryer and the air conditioner at the same time. Also, check and
make sure the breaker is rated to handle the condensing unit. Are there
any available slots on your panel?

"shibumi" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Folks,

My Trane XL1400 heat pump 'died' over the weekend. The repair
person
from the company that installed it said the "compressor shorted
to
ground"... and that it was basically time for a new unit..
This unit
was installed in 1993 - so - 13 years... He then arranged a
Sales call
(who said they couldn't get out here for 4 days!!)

Later in the afternoon, I contacted an independent guy, that's
been in
ac for a number of years and is just recently starting on his
own
business - he came highly recommended by my electrician (who is
a
friend that i trust). This second person basically said "This
is a
Trane - a top of the line Trane - your air handler is in good
condition, and the outside unit is in good condition... minus
the
compressor - i'll be happy to install a whole new unit if that
is what
you want, but you can just replace this compressor for a fifth
of the
cost and be fine"...

The 'new' compressor would only have a 1 year warranty on parts
and
labor.. Several times I kept questioning on if replacing the
compressor would be the way to go - and each time he pointed
out that
the rest of the unit was in fine shape... (even saying he'd be
happy
to do the job so that he could take the old unit and put it in
his
home.. lol)

A key factor here is that we've only been in this house 1 year,
and the
previous owners had a few service calls on the unit - always
for
tripping the breaker and for putting new start caps on..

Well - the unit was on a 'dual breaker' that controlled both
the
compressor AND our dryer! Also it's an old 150 amp panel w/
aluminum
wiring (running the heat pump, a pool, a jacuzzi, and the whole
house).. Even the home inspector recommended replacing
(upgrading)
the panel before we moved in... That is being done this
Friday...

The electrician and the second guy both felt strongly that the
way they
had this wired could be the main culprit behind the electrical
problems
this unit has had - and that upgrading the panel could
certainly go a
long way in alleviating that.

Given that - any second opinions out there?? I'm about sold on
just
replacing the compressor - granted i know nothing about heat
pumps and
hvac, but when they took the unit apart, it was
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry clean - i was shocked and how good
everything
looked! Makes it tough to just say 'haul it away' and drop $5k
on a
new unit - but - am i just asking for trouble by not replacing
the
whole thing??

I still have 3 other companies coming to give me estimates on a
full
replacement - just so i'll have some figures (including the
original
company 4 days from now - ??!!?.)

sorry so long - thanks for any feedback!


Gee isn't that funny. Trane is top of the line yet if it were a
Goodman 13 seer (or better) unit the compressor would have a
lifetime warranty and you would just be paying about 4-500$$ for
labor

"Kathy" wrote

Gee isn't that funny. Trane is top of the line yet if it were a
Goodman 13 seer (or better) unit the compressor would have a
lifetime warranty and you would just be paying about 4-500$$ for
labor

Not if he wasn't the original owner. I don't care WHAT you say Kathy. If he
isn't the original owner, Goodman will NOT replace the compressor for free.

I know! I just ran into that last week.

So you can just stick your piece of **** Goodman up your purty little
ass....

"Red Neckerson" wrote in message
news:OxWMf.2247$DT.1090@trnddc06...

"Kathy" wrote

Gee isn't that funny. Trane is top of the line yet if it were
a
Goodman 13 seer (or better) unit the compressor would have a
lifetime warranty and you would just be paying about 4-500$$
for
labor

Not if he wasn't the original owner. I don't care WHAT you say
Kathy. If he
isn't the original owner, Goodman will NOT replace the
compressor for free.

I know! I just ran into that last week.

So you can just stick your piece of **** Goodman up your purty
little
ass....



Not for nothing Red but,

I recently spoke to Jenny at ext.334 at Goodman in TX about what
was required for a warranty to be transferred. Maybe you could
call her if you have an issue with a Goodman Warranty. She has
been very helpful whenever I have questions.
Unless, of course you are just one of those guys that talks ****
and likes to trash Goodman. Then a phone call won't help.

have a nice day

Yes, Kathy, if only I'd had the foresight 13 years ago, to know that
I'd be buying this house 12 years later, then perhaps I could have
notified the actual owners of the house at the time on purchasing a
Goodman instead of a Trane.. Then again, if i had that ability to
forsee the future, I'd just by a lottery ticket instead... Thanks for
your 'help' though..

Hi Folks,

Thanks for comments and suggestions...

Just an update - I heard from the guy that was talking about replacing
just the compressor - he apologized and said the compressor was a bit
more than he expected, so the cost to do that would $1900... That's
about $500 - $1000 more than I was anticipating... (He also said he
could do an American Standard 14 SEER system for $5350)

Also, I've had a couple companies out already (and a few more on the
way) to price out replacing the entire system and I'm looking at a few
dollars over $5000 for the Trane 1400XLi system (w/ dual speed air
handler).. That approx $5000 is after rebates from Trane and Progress
Energy.. ($600 and $150)

So roughly $3000 price difference NOW between replacing just the
compressor and replacing the whole system - that's kind of swinging me
toward the new system and the longer warranty.. rather than paying
$2000 with only a 1 year warranty...

Like I say, more folks on the way w/ quotes - so - hopefully I can beat
a few of them down a lil lower than the $5k.

Thanks again for any insight.

shibumi wrote:
Hi Folks,

Thanks for comments and suggestions...

Just an update - I heard from the guy that was talking about replacing
just the compressor - he apologized and said the compressor was a bit
more than he expected, so the cost to do that would $1900... That's
about $500 - $1000 more than I was anticipating... (He also said he
could do an American Standard 14 SEER system for $5350)

Also, I've had a couple companies out already (and a few more on the
way) to price out replacing the entire system and I'm looking at a few
dollars over $5000 for the Trane 1400XLi system (w/ dual speed air
handler).. That approx $5000 is after rebates from Trane and Progress
Energy.. ($600 and $150)

So roughly $3000 price difference NOW between replacing just the
compressor and replacing the whole system - that's kind of swinging me
toward the new system and the longer warranty.. rather than paying
$2000 with only a 1 year warranty...

Like I say, more folks on the way w/ quotes - so - hopefully I can beat
a few of them down a lil lower than the $5k.

Thanks again for any insight.


It seems that installer is very important. A correct installation might
be more important than the heat pump.

One of our heat pumps (a Trane XL1000) leaked freon for 5 summers since
we moved in 6 years ago (new construction). We called him back,
initially every couple of months for freon recharge. We finally had
enough, and demanded him to completely fix the problem, as builder's
warranty expires at 5 years. He finally replaced the compressor, which
we asked him to do and were refused.

Every time when he came, he gave a different reason for the freon leak,
from O-ring, bad connection, even blamed on us that we did not turn on
our thermostat low enough in summers when nobody home, and blamed the
electric company's power saver device and disabled it. Things get
better with each fix. But still leaks and he need to recharge at least
once a year. I suspect he fixed away the problem by reinstalling a new
compressor last spring, as we did not need a freon recharge. We are keep
our fingers crossed that AC will work this summer, as we have to pay by
ourselfs for the fix from now on.

On 28 Feb 2006 09:50:02 -0800, "shibumi" wrote:

Hi Folks,

Thanks for comments and suggestions...

Just an update - I heard from the guy that was talking about replacing
just the compressor - he apologized and said the compressor was a bit
more than he expected, so the cost to do that would $1900... That's
about $500 - $1000 more than I was anticipating... (He also said he
could do an American Standard 14 SEER system for $5350)

Also, I've had a couple companies out already (and a few more on the
way) to price out replacing the entire system and I'm looking at a few
dollars over $5000 for the Trane 1400XLi system (w/ dual speed air
handler).. That approx $5000 is after rebates from Trane and Progress
Energy.. ($600 and $150)

So roughly $3000 price difference NOW between replacing just the
compressor and replacing the whole system - that's kind of swinging me
toward the new system and the longer warranty.. rather than paying
$2000 with only a 1 year warranty...

Like I say, more folks on the way w/ quotes - so - hopefully I can beat
a few of them down a lil lower than the $5k.

Thanks again for any insight.

You also need to consider the difference in efficiency between your
old system and a new one with the price of power going through the
roof.

Dick

Just another update... Had a Bryant dealer by - $7,200 for the Bryant
Evolution (after rebates) - 10 yr parts and labor... 15 SEER 3 ton
unit

Sounded like it had some nice features / extras - but - a bit
waaaaaaaaaaaay outside my ballpark at this point..


*just posting these updates to also help other folks in the future -
one of the most frustrating things to me was that I couldn't find many
price references... this business is worse that car shopping when it
comes to pricing!!

shibumi wrote:
Hi Folks,

My Trane XL1400 heat pump 'died' over the weekend. The repair person
from the company that installed it said the "compressor shorted to
ground"... and that it was basically time for a new unit.. This unit
was installed in 1993 - so - 13 years... He then arranged a Sales call
(who said they couldn't get out here for 4 days!!)

Later in the afternoon, I contacted an independent guy, that's been in
ac for a number of years and is just recently starting on his own
business - he came highly recommended by my electrician (who is a
friend that i trust). This second person basically said "This is a
Trane - a top of the line Trane - your air handler is in good
condition, and the outside unit is in good condition... minus the
compressor - i'll be happy to install a whole new unit if that is what
you want, but you can just replace this compressor for a fifth of the
cost and be fine"...

The 'new' compressor would only have a 1 year warranty on parts and
labor.. Several times I kept questioning on if replacing the
compressor would be the way to go - and each time he pointed out that
the rest of the unit was in fine shape... (even saying he'd be happy
to do the job so that he could take the old unit and put it in his
home.. lol)

A key factor here is that we've only been in this house 1 year, and the
previous owners had a few service calls on the unit - always for
tripping the breaker and for putting new start caps on..

Well - the unit was on a 'dual breaker' that controlled both the
compressor AND our dryer! Also it's an old 150 amp panel w/ aluminum
wiring (running the heat pump, a pool, a jacuzzi, and the whole
house).. Even the home inspector recommended replacing (upgrading)
the panel before we moved in... That is being done this Friday...

The electrician and the second guy both felt strongly that the way they
had this wired could be the main culprit behind the electrical problems
this unit has had - and that upgrading the panel could certainly go a
long way in alleviating that.

Given that - any second opinions out there?? I'm about sold on just
replacing the compressor - granted i know nothing about heat pumps and
hvac, but when they took the unit apart, it was
verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry clean - i was shocked and how good everything
looked! Makes it tough to just say 'haul it away' and drop $5k on a
new unit - but - am i just asking for trouble by not replacing the
whole thing??

I still have 3 other companies coming to give me estimates on a full
replacement - just so i'll have some figures (including the original
company 4 days from now - ??!!?.)

sorry so long - thanks for any feedback!

"shibumi" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just another update... Had a Bryant dealer by - $7,200 for the Bryant
Evolution (after rebates) - 10 yr parts and labor... 15 SEER 3 ton
unit

Sounded like it had some nice features / extras - but - a bit
waaaaaaaaaaaay outside my ballpark at this point..


*just posting these updates to also help other folks in the future -
one of the most frustrating things to me was that I couldn't find many
price references... this business is worse that car shopping when it
comes to pricing!!

Ask the guys pricing the Trane and the American standard if that includes a
variable speed air handler. That Bryant price seems a little high, but
Carrier DID jack up their prices quite a bit with their new line they came
out with this year....

Yeah - that did include the variable speed air handler for the Trane
and AS..

The only thing I really saw that the Bryant Evolution had over the
Trane was the 2 speed (or 2 stage??) compressor..

"shibumi" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah - that did include the variable speed air handler for the Trane
and AS..

The only thing I really saw that the Bryant Evolution had over the
Trane was the 2 speed (or 2 stage??) compressor..


Look at one of those SEER charts in the literature (that any of them gave
you) and look at the difference in savings. I'd probably go with the 14
SEER.

One more thing: American Standard and Trane come off the same assembly line.
When it get s to the end, Trane puts a fancier cabinet on it. Both have the
same warranty. You decide.....

OOPS! I posted my rant to the wrong thread. Please ignore it. But
note that most companies just want to sell a new box, very few know how
to fix anything any more.

Stretch

"Stretch" wrote in message
ups.com...


Tired of
fighting with it, I went to sears and bought a high end Kenmore. If I
have troubles with it (2 years old now) I will start buying cheap
dishwashers, since buying high priced ones is a waste of money. I had
trouble with a Frigidaire refrigerator also.

I will NEVER buy a Frigidaire ANYTHING ever again! And I will never
buy from their dealer again either!

End of rant (I feel Better)

Stretch


What model dishwasher did you wind up with? It will be an xxx.xxxxxx number
on the label.

"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
OOPS! I posted my rant to the wrong thread. Please ignore it. But
note that most companies just want to sell a new box, very few know how
to fix anything any more.

even so, not a bad rant....

;-]

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..

"Stretch" wrote in message
ups.com...


Tired of
fighting with it, I went to sears and bought a high end
Kenmore. If I
have troubles with it (2 years old now) I will start buying
cheap
dishwashers, since buying high priced ones is a waste of
money. I had
trouble with a Frigidaire refrigerator also.

I will NEVER buy a Frigidaire ANYTHING ever again! And I
will never
buy from their dealer again either!

End of rant (I feel Better)

Stretch


What model dishwasher did you wind up with? It will be an
xxx.xxxxxx number
on the label.



I've had a Kenmore 665.16761690 for a good 12 years now and it's
been great. I only know the number because I just replaced the
door seal for the first time. It's run at least 5 out of 7 days.

"Kathy" wrote in message
. ..

I've had a Kenmore 665.16761690 for a good 12 years now and it's
been great. I only know the number because I just replaced the
door seal for the first time. It's run at least 5 out of 7 days.

That one is made by Whirlpool.

If you really think your ac guy is not doing things correctly, you
should mention to him that you are going to contact the EPA about all
the times he's had to add freon to it because of the leaks that he has
not properly fixed. I bet that will get his attention and your problem
would be resolved rather quickly.

What model dishwasher did you wind up with? It will be an xxx.xxxxxx
number
on the label.

And the number is...... 665.17464300

Stretch

"Stretch" wrote in message
ups.com...
What model dishwasher did you wind up with? It will be an xxx.xxxxxx
number
on the label.

And the number is...... 665.17464300

Stretch

That's also a Whirlpool.

"robertp" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you really think your ac guy is not doing things correctly, you
should mention to him that you are going to contact the EPA about all
the times he's had to add freon to it because of the leaks that he has
not properly fixed. I bet that will get his attention and your problem
would be resolved rather quickly.

What's he going to say to the EPA? A licensed, certified HVAC tech. is
having trouble repairing a refrigerant leak? Sounds like the guy was
replacing items as he found them leaking. "Every few months" sounds like a
decent size leak. He's probably got a gripe with the builder or the
responsible HVAC company. There really is no issue here that the EPA would
be interested in. There's no requirement to fix or replace a "small" system
because of leaks. In addition, it sounds like the tech's been making a good
faith effort to fix the problem.

"...even blamed on us that we did not turn on
our thermostat low enough in summers when nobody home, and blamed the
electric company's power saver device and disabled it..."

These are no reasons for a freon leak - and lying to a customer about
why there is a leak is not an indication of a "good faith effort" in
any way --- quite the opposite in my book. From what I read here, it
just seems like the guy doesn't have a handle on the situation and
makes up different excuses for not being able to properly locate and
repair the leak. The EPA does have certain guidlines on making proper
repairs to a leaking system and not simply adding freon to it every few
months. It is the technician's responsibility to properly repair a leak.

robertp wrote:
"...even blamed on us that we did not turn on
our thermostat low enough in summers when nobody home, and blamed the
electric company's power saver device and disabled it..."

These are no reasons for a freon leak - and lying to a customer about
why there is a leak is not an indication of a "good faith effort" in
any way --- quite the opposite in my book. From what I read here, it
just seems like the guy doesn't have a handle on the situation and
makes up different excuses for not being able to properly locate and
repair the leak. The EPA does have certain guidlines on making proper
repairs to a leaking system and not simply adding freon to it every few
months. It is the technician's responsibility to properly repair a leak.


I am not sure if the AC installer was lying. I think he just did not
know where the problem is. Every time when he visited, he spent a few
hours to find where is the leak is, and guess at the causes, like an
amature does. He was frustrated that his ultrasonic leak detector was
not telling the leak location, and his soup bubble method on the lines
in the compressor unit did not work either.

The Trane warranty did notlet him replace the unit unless he locate the
exact problem. For 5 years, he and his assistant couldn't locate it.

Anyway, thhe point is the initial installation of AC is very important.
If it is not installed correctly, you will have major headache. The
installer never answer to our calls. We have to call the bulder for the
repair. The builder said we should contact the contractor directly.
But the contractor only answers builder's call. It was frustrating to
get the system working.

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Kathy" wrote in message
. ..

I've had a Kenmore 665.16761690 for a good 12 years now and it's
been great. I only know the number because I just replaced the
door seal for the first time. It's run at least 5 out of 7 days.

That one is made by Whirlpool.

She thinks it's a Goodman....

"robertp" wrote in message
ups.com...
"...even blamed on us that we did not turn on
our thermostat low enough in summers when nobody home, and blamed the
electric company's power saver device and disabled it..."

These are no reasons for a freon leak - and lying to a customer about
why there is a leak is not an indication of a "good faith effort" in
any way --- quite the opposite in my book. From what I read here, it
just seems like the guy doesn't have a handle on the situation and
makes up different excuses for not being able to properly locate and
repair the leak. The EPA does have certain guidlines on making proper
repairs to a leaking system and not simply adding freon to it every few
months. It is the technician's responsibility to properly repair a leak.


For a home HVAC unit like this, there is NO issue that would involve the
EPA, as long as the tech. is certified, and THE TECH did not intentionally
release refrigerant. If a system has leaks, of course they should be
repaired, but there is NO EPA provision that forces the repair of leaks on a
small system. If the system was leaking that much, the oil alone would have
pointed to where the leak(s) are.

Point him/her in the right direction - small claims court (pay someone to
fix the leaks, and get reimbursed for the repairs), or the state attorney
general's office - consumer fraud, or something along those lines. The EPA
would have NO interest in this no matter how much THIS system was leaking,
as long as the tech has a card, and was not intentionally venting.

"shibumi" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Folks,

Thanks for comments and suggestions...

Just an update - I heard from the guy that was talking about replacing
just the compressor - he apologized and said the compressor was a bit
more than he expected, so the cost to do that would $1900... That's
about $500 - $1000 more than I was anticipating... (He also said he
could do an American Standard 14 SEER system for $5350)

Also, I've had a couple companies out already (and a few more on the
way) to price out replacing the entire system and I'm looking at a few
dollars over $5000 for the Trane 1400XLi system (w/ dual speed air
handler).. That approx $5000 is after rebates from Trane and Progress
Energy.. ($600 and $150)


I just got a price on a 14iXL 3 ton system of $ 5100. There was no mention
of a rebate from Trane. I have been on their web site and did not see any
mention of one. Could you tell me where you found out about a rebate ?

I think I'm at my limit w/ the 5 quotes - I don't think I can deal w/
anymore sales folks!

Regarding the lines, I do have one concern there. One company (higher
bid) said they would replace all of the freon lines as part of the
install - for basically the reason you just mentioned - They said there
could be alllll kinds of crap in there now.

Another company (not the bottom lowest, but a good rep, and the one I'm
really leaning towards), has said they will "clean the lines following
Trane standards" - or instructions - or something.. Point being -
they will clean the lines rather than replace - and they kept insuring
me that that would be enough..

Now, if I'm getting the extended warranty 10/10/10 - should I be
concerned whether they just clean instead of replace those lines?? I
understand that if one of those lines sprung a leak, I'd be left w/ it
- but - as far as any gunk in there causing a problem w/ the
compressor, I'd assume that would be THEIR issue as they decided to
clean rather than replace..

Or - would there even BE an issue if they do as thorough of a cleaning
as they claim?

Thanks again for all of the feedback

Actually, I'm picking based primarily on service and secondly on price.
I didn't pick the lowest guy - I went w/ the company that at least
SOUNDED like they would give me the best service - now and down the
road... They are big in this area (30 years), and they came
recommended by my electrician friend who is doing all of the work.

They were one of the first out here, they didn't try to "sell" me on
anything, they had lower pricing on the extended warranty (which - is
big to me - because as it's a Trane x warranty, they all have the same
price - so - charging $100 and $200 more is just robbery), they won't
charge me down the road for emergency / weekend service (the others
were going to charge me because Trane only reimburses them for
'regular' time), they included the new disconnect in their price -
where as the others wanted me to pay to have my electrician do it when
they heard he was putting in the new panel (he'll still be doing it,
but it will be covered in their price, rather than me spending another
$75 - $150 - however much it is...), and they have answered all of my
questions in .
what sounded like truthful responses - again not just someone trying to
"sell" me..

For example, when I went to them about cleaning the lines vs replacing
them - they again explained how they follow Trane's procedure for
cleanging the lines, BUT, said that if I would be more comfortable w/
them replacing the lines, they would do it - and will not be charging
me for it. They also took a few dollars ($35) off because I had
recently installed a new Honeywell Thermostat - which had more features
in it than what they were going to install, so - they just took it
off... things like that.

There were a few other things that they did that made me go their route
- it was all about the SERVICE - at least "pre-sale" has been great!
I'm hoping it will continue.

We'll find out today... They're coming out to do the install... for
the 14XLi. My electrician is also installing my new panel today -
going from 150 aluminum wiring to 200 amp and copper.

"shibumi" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there - Three of the companies that came out actually told *me*
about the Trane rebates - for the particular unit that I was looking at
- the Trane 14XLi, it was a $600 rebate. (Plus there is a $150 rebate
from my power company, Progress Energy).

At that price, it sounds like they've already built the rebate in - if
NOT, what part of the country are you in, because that is MUCH lower
than any of the quotes I've gotten!


I am in central North Carolina. The price of $ 5125 is to install a 3 ton
XL14i and new air handler with the heat strips and a low end thermostat.
They will also haul off the old stuff and clean up. I don't need the
programmable stuff as there is someone in the house almost all the time. No
rebate was mentioned to me. From the price you have, it seems like they may
be keeping the rebate for theirselves and just just giving me the reduction.

Prices do vary all over the place depending on where you are at I guess.
Especially the labor. The area I am in has a wage range of around $ 10 to $
15 for many jobs. The new houses are in the $ 100,000 to $ 150,000 range.
This seems much lower than the ones I see on TV on the various programs. It
would be nice if there was a place on the internet that had the local prices
of the units to compair them in the uninstalled state.