I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through the bare
copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any ideas what the
problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting voltage. The
electrical panel looks ok.
Ed

Ed Varin wrote:
I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through the
bare copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any
ideas what the problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am
getting voltage. The electrical panel looks ok.
Ed

First exactly how are you measuring this voltage? Between the ground
wire and what?? What are you using to measure it? Why did you measure it?
I am suspecting no real problems, but there is one thing that I can think of
that could be a problem depending on the answers to my questions.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Ed Varin" wrote in message
news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
:I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through
the bare
: copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any
ideas what the
: problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting
voltage. The
: electrical panel looks ok.
: Ed
:
:
It sounds like you're reading a phantom voltage, one which is
induced into the wiring by stray fields, and quite harmless. But
you really should prove that. You really didn't give enough
details to make a sound judgement.

One way to prove phantom voltage would be to turn on one of the
light switches on the ckt. If it goes completely away, it's just
a phantom voltage. If there is still any voltage left, then it's
time to call a repairman or at least a friend who knows how to
tell when he's found a phantom voltage: It's very, very common,
especially when high impedance meters are used for the
measurement.
Someone asked a bunch of questions that I don't yet see
answered; that would help a lot.

Pop

Pop wrote:
"Ed Varin" wrote in message
news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
:I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through
the bare
: copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any
ideas what the
: problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting
voltage. The
: electrical panel looks ok.
: Ed
:
:
It sounds like you're reading a phantom voltage, one which is
induced into the wiring by stray fields, and quite harmless. But
you really should prove that. You really didn't give enough
details to make a sound judgement.

One way to prove phantom voltage would be to turn on one of the
light switches on the ckt. If it goes completely away, it's just
a phantom voltage. If there is still any voltage left, then it's
time to call a repairman or at least a friend who knows how to
tell when he's found a phantom voltage: It's very, very common,
especially when high impedance meters are used for the
measurement.
Someone asked a bunch of questions that I don't yet see
answered; that would help a lot.

Pop

Perhaps but is not an induced "phantom voltage" not enough to give one
the "tickle"

IMO anytime you get a stray voltage reading AND the "tickle / tingle"
feeeling, the problem is real.

cheers
Bob

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: Pop wrote:
: "Ed Varin" wrote in message
: news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
: :I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols
through
: the bare
: : copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it.
Any
: ideas what the
: : problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting
: voltage. The
: : electrical panel looks ok.
: : Ed
: :
: :
: It sounds like you're reading a phantom voltage, one which is
: induced into the wiring by stray fields, and quite harmless.
But
: you really should prove that. You really didn't give enough
: details to make a sound judgement.
:
: One way to prove phantom voltage would be to turn on one of
the
: light switches on the ckt. If it goes completely away, it's
just
: a phantom voltage. If there is still any voltage left, then
it's
: time to call a repairman or at least a friend who knows how
to
: tell when he's found a phantom voltage: It's very, very
common,
: especially when high impedance meters are used for the
: measurement.
: Someone asked a bunch of questions that I don't yet see
: answered; that would help a lot.
:
: Pop
:
: Perhaps but is not an induced "phantom voltage" not enough to
give one
: the "tickle"
:
: IMO anytime you get a stray voltage reading AND the "tickle /
tingle"
: feeeling, the problem is real.
:
: cheers
: Bob
:

True enough, but ... 28Vac shouldn't be anything most people
would feel, but ... that would be a good indication of another
problem. I don't recall anything about it "tickling" the OP, so
I must ahve missed that part.
Putting a load on the ckt, eg turning on one of the lights
should show whether it's got any power behind it though. A solid
28Vac wouldn't light it up, but it would/should draw the voltage
down to nothing if it's phantom; if not, then it's a very real
problem, for sure.
IMO, there's too little info to make any good analysis.

Pop

Pop wrote:

snip28Vac shouldn't be anything most people
would feel
snip

I disagree. You can get quite a jolt from even a 12 volt source.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

How? I have been handling 12 volts and more for all my life and never felt
anything. However, I understand that if you inject or puncture the skin with
the wire, you can feel it, it can even be dangerous in this manner.

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Pop wrote:

snip28Vac shouldn't be anything most people
would feel
snip

I disagree. You can get quite a jolt from even a 12 volt source.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:41:00 GMT, CJT wrote:

Pop wrote:

snip28Vac shouldn't be anything most people
would feel
snip

I disagree. You can get quite a jolt from even a 12 volt source.

Under what conditions?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:49:28 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message :
: Perhaps but is not an induced "phantom voltage" not enough to
:give one: the "tickle"

Glad you have the second sentence, because this one had too many
"not"s for me to understand it.
:
: IMO anytime you get a stray voltage reading AND the "tickle /
tingle" feeeling, the problem is real.
:
: cheers Bob
:
Putting a load on the ckt, eg turning on one of the lights
should show whether it's got any power behind it though. A solid
28Vac wouldn't light it up, but it would/should draw the voltage

So all I would have to do in this situation would be to connect a 110V
lightbulb from the ground wire to {another actual ground / the white
wire / the black wire / ??} and keep the meter at the same points?

If the voltage drops to zero, no problem. If it stay about 10v real
problem. ??

I've never noticed this problem so I don't want to buy a wiggy
(willy?) for only one use.

Could I just use a low impedance meter, like one with a needle that is
20,000 or 50,000 ohms per volt. Would that load make the phantom
voltage disappear?


down to nothing if it's phantom; if not, then it's a very real
problem, for sure.
IMO, there's too little info to make any good analysis.

Pop



Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

First, excercise caution. Avoid touching wires, ensure your circuits
are properly disconnected. Sounds like common sense, but a lot of
people (especially the experienced ones) ignore it.

I'm not certain what the required methods of running multi-phased
circuits using single neutrals are. Perhaps someone can let us know if
this is/was common practice for house hold wiring. I have gotten the
general impression its not. Just so your informed, it is possible to
run multiple hots on various phases using 1 neutral. If you open 1 hot
this will not cut the power on the neutral completly.

At this point I'll assume your taking an interest in how to solve the
dilemma, or find out exactly what is wrong. So I won't pester you with
the "shouldn't do it" concerns others may have.

A suggestion which no one seems to have offered is to compare the
resistance of 1 ground with another seperate ground run. It would seem
to me that if I had an open on a ground wire then I wouldn't see a low
impedance if I checked against another ground wire.

Seeing how I can't stand dealing with stray voltages at the best of
timies, I'll simply stay away from this item. (I generally deal with
low voltage signalling wire, and find that using a drain wire helps
reduce stray voltages for my applications.)

JW

According to mm :

Could I just use a low impedance meter, like one with a needle that is
20,000 or 50,000 ohms per volt. Would that load make the phantom
voltage disappear?

Yes. But as I mentioned elsewhere, phantom voltage or not,
measuring voltage between ground and neutral means there's a very
real problem.

Grabowski mentions the possibility of a loose neutral in a shared
neutral circuit. That indeed is possible. However, I think it
more likely that somewhere upstream of that outlet there's
a poor ground connection. Many not-quite electricians are quite
sloppy at connecting grounds together.

A loose neutral in a shared neutral circuit has other side effects.
Like having lights brighten when you turn something else on. The
circuit will seem "sick" in other ways. Besides, shared neutral
circuits are usually only a tiny fraction of the circuits in
a home.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Pop wrote:

"Ed Varin" wrote in message
news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
:I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through
the bare
: copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any
ideas what the
: problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting
voltage. The
: electrical panel looks ok.
: Ed
:
:
It sounds like you're reading a phantom voltage, one which is
induced into the wiring by stray fields, and quite harmless. But
you really should prove that. You really didn't give enough
details to make a sound judgement.

On the safety ground? That seems pretty unlikely to me. The safety
ground should have a low impedance path to earth.

One way to prove phantom voltage would be to turn on one of the
light switches on the ckt. If it goes completely away, it's just
a phantom voltage. If there is still any voltage left, then it's
time to call a repairman or at least a friend who knows how to
tell when he's found a phantom voltage: It's very, very common,
especially when high impedance meters are used for the
measurement.
Someone asked a bunch of questions that I don't yet see
answered; that would help a lot.

Pop






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"Pop" wrote in message
news:9Q2Kf.4940$Td2.488@trndny06...

"Ed Varin" wrote in message
news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
:I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through
the bare
: copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any
ideas what the
: problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting
voltage. The
: electrical panel looks ok.
: Ed
:
:
It sounds like you're reading a phantom voltage, one which is
induced into the wiring by stray fields, and quite harmless. But
you really should prove that. You really didn't give enough
details to make a sound judgement.

One way to prove phantom voltage would be to turn on one of the
light switches on the ckt. If it goes completely away, it's just
a phantom voltage. If there is still any voltage left, then it's
time to call a repairman or at least a friend who knows how to
tell when he's found a phantom voltage: It's very, very common,
especially when high impedance meters are used for the
measurement.
Someone asked a bunch of questions that I don't yet see
answered; that would help a lot.

Pop

Yes, phantom voltage can be puzzling to some. I can remember my first high
impedence VTVM, I found that it could read voltage between my left and and
my right hand. I guess this is one of the principals of a lie detector.

"Ed Varin" wrote in message
news:g90Kf.4710$Ug4.3161@dukeread12...
I have one circuit in my home that I am getting 28 vols through the bare
copper ground wire. This circuit has severallights on it. Any ideas what
the
problem could be? Even with the breaker off I am getting voltage. The
electrical panel looks ok.
Ed



A few things I would do: Check the voltage between that suspect ground wire
and the nearest water pipe. Also check the voltage between the other wires
in the switch box and the water pipe. Next I would shut each circuit
breaker off in the panel one at a time and check to see if the voltage
reading changes.

I would also go to a different part of the house on a different circuit and
check the voltage in the same manner with the circuit off.

Let us know what you find.

How many wires are in the switch box?

I'm thinking that this particular circuit may be part of a three wire
circuit. The voltage that you are reading is actually coming from the
neutral because there is a load on the other leg. By shutting off the other
circuit breaker the voltage should almost disappear. If this is the case I
recommend that you tighten all of the neutral and ground connections in the
electrical panel. There could also be a neutral connection somewhere on the
circuit that needs tightening such as a receptacle.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv