I'm a relatively new home owner. I love the home I purchased except
for one thing: the sump pump basin. I know that the basin is there to
prevent water from seeping into basement but there has to be a better
way. I don't want to worry about the basin overflowing or the sump
pump breaking down anymore.

Previouly in Maine we had about 5 years of a drought so the ground
water levels were pretty low. But in the last year we've received
record levels of rain and snow. So the sump pump was working quite a
bit in Spring, Summer, Fall, and now Winter. Also we just had the
wettest January on record.

The house was built in 1955 and the basin looks like it is original and
was poured with the foundation. It has the ducts that lead into it
also. I know there are some ways to aleviate the amount of water you
get in the sump pump basin by grading and making dry wells. But I want
to actually fill the basin. Will this cause more problems? Is it as
simple as filling with concrete or are there several steps that need to
be taken?

The foundation is in great shape and can't find any cracks. Would
filling in the basin cause cracks to form as water trys to seep in?
I've heard there are companies who will seal your basement and
gaurauntee it stays dry. Also I have neighbors who have dry basements
and their foundations are in worse shape than mine.

If anyone can post links or advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

On 12 Feb 2006 12:26:52 -0800, wrote:

I'm a relatively new home owner. I love the home I purchased except
for one thing: the sump pump basin. I know that the basin is there to
prevent water from seeping into basement but there has to be a better
way. I don't want to worry about the basin overflowing or the sump
pump breaking down anymore.

Previouly in Maine we had about 5 years of a drought so the ground
water levels were pretty low. But in the last year we've received
record levels of rain and snow. So the sump pump was working quite a
bit in Spring, Summer, Fall, and now Winter. Also we just had the
wettest January on record.

If the sump pump is working properly, it is keeping the water
level from reaching the bottom of the basement floor. This is
what the (sump) system is designed to do.

The house was built in 1955 and the basin looks like it is original and
was poured with the foundation. It has the ducts that lead into it
also. I know there are some ways to aleviate the amount of water you
get in the sump pump basin by grading and making dry wells.

And you've done this?

But I want
to actually fill the basin. Will this cause more problems? Is it as
simple as filling with concrete or are there several steps that need to
be taken?

You mean pull the pump and fill the basin with concrete or
somesuch? Not recommended.

The foundation is in great shape and can't find any cracks. Would
filling in the basin cause cracks to form as water trys to seep in?
I've heard there are companies who will seal your basement and
gaurauntee it stays dry. Also I have neighbors who have dry basements
and their foundations are in worse shape than mine.

If anyone can post links or advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

If you have, say, standard poured-concrete floor, be advised that
there is no seal at the cove where the floor meets the walls.
Without a pump system, when the water level rises hi enough,
water will enter the basement.

You can test this by unplugging the sump pump and waiting
until you get tons of rain (be prepared to re-plug the
pump but be advised that you can draw "Many Amperes" if
you do so standing in water).

What is it about the sump system that'd make you want
to "fill it in"? Other details welcome: kind of foundation,
etc.

Cheers,
Puddin'

wrote in message
ups.com...

I'm a relatively new home owner. I love the home I purchased except
for one thing: the sump pump basin. I know that the basin is there to
prevent water from seeping into basement but there has to be a better
way. I don't want to worry about the basin overflowing or the sump
pump breaking down anymore.. . . But I want
to actually fill the basin. Will this cause more problems? Is it as
simple as filling with concrete or are there several steps that need to
be taken?

Just make a wooden hatch cover. Notch the edge of a couple
of 2x4" timbers so they fit permanently into the top edge of
the sump hole (presumably square or rectangular) and cover
the rest with any available timber. If anyone is likely to tread
on the cover you need to make it appropriately strong. For
removal, one or two fingerholes or rope handles will suffice.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

I understand what a sump pump is designed to do but I was wondering if
there is a method to seal the basement. And I know it's probably a
dumb idea to fill it in and it probably wouldn't work. But this summer
we lost power for two hours and the basin was filling up. So I had to
bail it out with a bucket for a solid two hours with the water rising
almost as fast as I could bail. Not fun. And I know I need to get a
battery backup for it. But at that time I had no idea.

When we get just a little bit of rain now the pump goes for 2 days
straight since the ground water level is so high. And plus I have this
hose sticking out of my basement spewing water down my driveway every
15 minutes.

I was wondering if there is a way to seal a basement so that no water
gets in. I mean we're in the modern age and there has to be something
a person can do to get rid of the basin and seal the basement.

I'm a novice when it comes to home repairs so I'm not sure what kind of
foundation I have. I believe they poured the slab then the walls.

Is there any way to seal the cove where the wall meets the floor?
Thanks for the reply.

Sorry theres no way to seal the water out.

ideally the sump basin is above the level of some point of your yard.

so you dig a ditch from house to wherever, dig into the sump basin and
run a drain line or overflow drain line.

If the pump fails for any reason then the excess water will have a
place to go!

If thats not a option, then you will need a battery backup sump pump,
with a seperate discharge line for power, pump, or drain line failures.

there are also backup ones using city water for draining.....

gravity is the best way!

I have plans to install a basement drain system soon, and already
checked! Mine will drain to the end of the yard just fine!

On 12 Feb 2006 12:26:52 -0800, wrote:

I'm a relatively new home owner. I love the home I purchased except
for one thing: the sump pump basin. I know that the basin is there to
prevent water from seeping into basement but there has to be a better
way. I don't want to worry about the basin overflowing or the sump
pump breaking down anymore.

Previouly in Maine we had about 5 years of a drought so the ground
water levels were pretty low. But in the last year we've received
record levels of rain and snow. So the sump pump was working quite a
bit in Spring, Summer, Fall, and now Winter. Also we just had the
wettest January on record.

The house was built in 1955 and the basin looks like it is original and
was poured with the foundation. It has the ducts that lead into it
also. I know there are some ways to aleviate the amount of water you
get in the sump pump basin by grading and making dry wells.

I guess you should do those things, and then see below.

buI want
to actually fill the basin. Will this cause more problems? Is it as
simple as filling with concrete or are there several steps that need to
be taken?

You have 2 choices. You may take the sump pump out first, or you may
leave it in and pour the concrete around it.

But first do those things that alleviate the amount of water.. After
the sump has been dry for 20 years, that is a good time to fill it
with concrete. Possibly after 40 years, depending on the water table
cycle and the non-cyclical high water tables that occur in your area.

BTW, you do know that "alleviate" means to make less, right? Not to
make zero or to make disappear. So you know there will still be
water. What is your plan for it?

Even if there were a plan to make the water totally disappear, you
should implement that plan and see if it works, if it always works,
before you think about getting rid of the system in place now that
*does8 work. .

The foundation is in great shape and can't find any cracks. Would
filling in the basin cause cracks to form as water trys to seep in?
I've heard there are companies who will seal your basement and
gaurauntee it stays dry.

I think they do this by putting in a sump and a sump pump. When there
is no water on your floor, that's "dry".

You're lucky you have a sump pump in a house that old. Lots of them
didn't. Either very good building regs or a builder who knew what he
was doing.

Also I have neighbors who have dry basements
and their foundations are in worse shape than mine.

If anyone can post links or advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Perhaps you can make a cover out of 3/4 plywood, or 2 layers of it,
that will cover most of the pit. It has to be C-shaped to leave room
for the mechanism. My sump came with a plastic cover designed to fit
properly. It seems strong,but I'm not going to step on it.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On 12 Feb 2006 16:01:44 -0800, wrote:


I was wondering if there is a way to seal a basement so that no water
gets in. I mean we're in the modern age and there has to be something
a person can do to get rid of the basin and seal the basement.

We can send a man to the moon, but we can't even have a dry basement.
So true.

Apollo 11 was water tight and even air tight, but think how much money
they spent to do that**. And check out "Apollo 7" to see all the
things that can go wrong.


**Actually the water pressure inward at the bottom of a basement is
probably higher than the air pressure trying to get out of a space
ship. I'm not sure. Does anyone know?

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

The house was built in 1955 and the basin looks like it is original and
was poured with the foundation. It has the ducts that lead into it
also. I know there are some ways to aleviate the amount of water you
get in the sump pump basin by grading and making dry wells. But I want
to actually fill the basin. Will this cause more problems? Is it as
simple as filling with concrete or are there several steps that need to
be taken?

You can certainly make a dry basement. It would probably double the cost of
your house; cheaper to move to a dryer neighborhood.

If you simply water proofed your basement you would either cause the walls
to cave in from the water pressure, or actually cause the basement to come
out of the ground (a house boat?).

Sure, you could build the walls strong enough to resist the water pressure,
and anchor it well enough to resist the buoyancy, but it will be pretty
silly.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 01:14:05 GMT, "Toller" wrote:



You can certainly make a dry basement. It would probably double the cost of
your house; cheaper to move to a dryer neighborhood.

If you simply water proofed your basement you would either cause the walls
to cave in from the water pressure, or actually cause the basement to come
out of the ground (a house boat?).
----

Sure, you could build the walls strong enough to resist the water pressure,
and anchor it well enough to resist the buoyancy, but it will be pretty
silly.

That's what they do in Chicago, iiuc. I'm referring to the downtown
office buildings.

Last I heard directly about this was 1970, but iirc Chicago is from
the French words meaning smelly garlic, and where down town is now was
built on a swamp. Office buildings have basements that go down 3 and
4 stories (more? now that the buildings are taller?) They sort of
float on the water and the weight of the building holds them in place.
I know that there's got to be more to it than that, but that's the way
it was told to me, iirc.

10 or 20 years ago in a separate incident, something went wrong and
the downtown subway tunnels and the basements of a few buildings
flooded. I don't mean 2 inches of water on the floor. I got the
impression they were full of water to the ceiling.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

You really shouldn't consider any material alteration to
the foundation, etc until you understand how it was
built and what will damage it. There is likely
a book at the library.

In a nutshell, when they pour a foundation, they dig
the shape and erect concrete forms. The footings are
poured first. After they cure, the walls are poured.
After they cure, the floor is poured. None of these
major components bond to one another. It is not
practical to seal the coves.

Even if you didn't mind frequent standing water in
your basement, it would likely rot the foundation
of your home.

So the recommend is that you, like many of us, learn
to live with your sump system. Perhaps a battery backup
if you have frequent power failures. Definitely
monitor pump age/funtioning, replace as needed.

Good Luck,
Puddin'


On 12 Feb 2006 16:01:44 -0800, wrote:

I understand what a sump pump is designed to do but I was wondering if
there is a method to seal the basement. And I know it's probably a
dumb idea to fill it in and it probably wouldn't work. But this summer
we lost power for two hours and the basin was filling up. So I had to
bail it out with a bucket for a solid two hours with the water rising
almost as fast as I could bail. Not fun. And I know I need to get a
battery backup for it. But at that time I had no idea.

When we get just a little bit of rain now the pump goes for 2 days
straight since the ground water level is so high. And plus I have this
hose sticking out of my basement spewing water down my driveway every
15 minutes.

I was wondering if there is a way to seal a basement so that no water
gets in. I mean we're in the modern age and there has to be something
a person can do to get rid of the basin and seal the basement.

I'm a novice when it comes to home repairs so I'm not sure what kind of
foundation I have. I believe they poured the slab then the walls.

Is there any way to seal the cove where the wall meets the floor?
Thanks for the reply.

I laughed when I first read your post, but I guess your serious afterall
so here goes.


wrote:
I understand what a sump pump is designed to do but I was wondering if
there is a method to seal the basement. And I know it's probably a
dumb idea to fill it in and it probably wouldn't work. But this summer
we lost power for two hours and the basin was filling up. So I had to
bail it out with a bucket for a solid two hours with the water rising
almost as fast as I could bail. Not fun. And I know I need to get a
battery backup for it. But at that time I had no idea.


My sump pump empties the pit every 3 minutes. I have a rubber cap for
the drain pipe I strap on sometimes to shut off the water flow. But its
not stoping the water, just keeps it from entering the pit. Ground
water levels begin to immediately rise after my foundation pipes all
fill up. When I remote the cap, the water rushes into the pit keeping
the level near the top for about as long as I had the cap on.


When we get just a little bit of rain now the pump goes for 2 days
straight since the ground water level is so high. And plus I have this
hose sticking out of my basement spewing water down my driveway every
15 minutes.


When you say straight, you do mean there are pauses right? If not you
need a deeper/ bigger pit. And that hose should be at least 6ft away
from the house.



I was wondering if there is a way to seal a basement so that no water
gets in. I mean we're in the modern age and there has to be something
a person can do to get rid of the basin and seal the basement.


Yes, there are ways to seal the basement. Then you end up with water
all around your basement walls. If you lifted a gallon of milk you know
how heavy water is. This will press against your basement walls and floor.

The sump system is indeed more for *pressure* removal, than it is for
wetness removal. wet basement is one thing, cracked walls and floor due
to water pressure is another. Water is a powerful think on this planet,
respect it.


I'm a novice when it comes to home repairs so I'm not sure what kind of
foundation I have. I believe they poured the slab then the walls.

Is there any way to seal the cove where the wall meets the floor?
Thanks for the reply.


Bad idea. Get yourself a backup sump, and probably a water powered one.



--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

the FIRST move is keep the water from around the house! Downspout
drains should go as far from home as possible, keep gutters clean so
rain doesnt overflow them and get into basement, resloop yard so rain
naturally travels away from home.

then drain the sump by gravity if at all possible.

take good care of your sump system, since wet basement homes are
difficult to sell, and worse get less $

mm wrote:

On 12 Feb 2006 16:01:44 -0800, wrote:


I was wondering if there is a way to seal a basement so that no water
gets in. I mean we're in the modern age and there has to be something
a person can do to get rid of the basin and seal the basement.

We can send a man to the moon, but we can't even have a dry basement.
So true.

Sump pumps were invented for this exact reason. They make mining
possible, along with underpasses, New Orleans, the Netherlands, and a
whole lot more.

As others have pointed out, what is needed is more, in the form of a
backup pump, not less pumps.

mm wrote:

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 01:14:05 GMT, "Toller" wrote:



You can certainly make a dry basement. It would probably double the cost of
your house; cheaper to move to a dryer neighborhood.

If you simply water proofed your basement you would either cause the walls
to cave in from the water pressure, or actually cause the basement to come
out of the ground (a house boat?).
----

Sure, you could build the walls strong enough to resist the water pressure,
and anchor it well enough to resist the buoyancy, but it will be pretty
silly.

That's what they do in Chicago, iiuc. I'm referring to the downtown
office buildings.

Last I heard directly about this was 1970, but iirc Chicago is from
the French words meaning smelly garlic, and where down town is now was
built on a swamp. Office buildings have basements that go down 3 and
4 stories (more? now that the buildings are taller?) They sort of
float on the water and the weight of the building holds them in place.
I know that there's got to be more to it than that, but that's the way
it was told to me, iirc.

They are building the foundation of the new trump tower now. Your
kidding right? No way a building can float, if they could they are
called HOUSEBOATS.

Trump tower has pilings going down to bedrock, which is required any
substantial building.

What is unusual with trump tower is that these pilings are all going to
be tied together by a single concrete layer, which was recently poured.

Said tower will have sump pumps being this is all below natural ground
water level.

10 or 20 years ago in a separate incident, something went wrong and
the downtown subway tunnels and the basements of a few buildings
flooded. I don't mean 2 inches of water on the floor. I got the
impression they were full of water to the ceiling.

These were old coal supply tunnels. There used to be an entire
underground railroad to supply coal to the downtown structures, and
their coal furnaces.

Said tunnel ran UNDER the Chicago river, and when a piling was punched
into the wrong place...

And even boats, designed to float have bilge pumps.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:35:21 -0600, John Hines
wrote:


Last I heard directly about this was 1970, but iirc Chicago is from
the French words meaning smelly garlic, and where down town is now was
built on a swamp. Office buildings have basements that go down 3 and
4 stories (more? now that the buildings are taller?) They sort of
float on the water and the weight of the building holds them in place.
I know that there's got to be more to it than that, but that's the way
it was told to me, iirc.

They are building the foundation of the new trump tower now. Your
kidding right?

I'm not kidding. It's conceivable that I was misinformed, but iirc I
heard this on a tv documentary.

No way a building can float, if they could they are
called HOUSEBOATS.

Trump tower has pilings going down to bedrock, which is required any
substantial building.

Maybe it doesn't work with the taller buildings they build these days.
I mean, if they would have to go down 15 stories to make up the
weight, and the bedrock was at 10 stories, then there would be no
point in going lower. But if it is a 6 story building that needs
three or four basements, and bedrocks is still at 10 stories, and they
didn't have adequate pile drivers then, that's what they would do.

I don' t think I have the energy to hunt the web now. Well, I looked
at one website and only learned about the flood 15 years ago.

What is unusual with trump tower is that these pilings are all going to
be tied together by a single concrete layer, which was recently poured.

Said tower will have sump pumps being this is all below natural ground
water level.

10 or 20 years ago in a separate incident, something went wrong and
the downtown subway tunnels and the basements of a few buildings
flooded. I don't mean 2 inches of water on the floor. I got the
impression they were full of water to the ceiling.

These were old coal supply tunnels. There used to be an entire
underground railroad to supply coal to the downtown structures, and
their coal furnaces.

Said tunnel ran UNDER the Chicago river, and when a piling was punched
into the wrong place...

Thanks for the info. I watched the news, but if you don't hear the
first story, none of the followups ever explain things. They just
talked about the damage and the unflooding process.
And even boats, designed to float have bilge pumps.


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

I saw something about that Chicago flood a while back, I think on Modern
Marvels Engineeering Disasters. Worst thing was that, as I recall, the
authorities were notified of the problem in plenty of time to correct
it, but did nothing. Then of course they passed the blame around and
made excuses afterwards. Larry