a friend owns a *big* 10K+ bookstore. he's got five forced-air York NG
furnaces installed in-tandem... all of this is 5-7 years old... he's been
through small-claims, and in the past 2-3 yrs has paid 500-700 in repairs.
they're outa warrantee... he plans on ripping them all out and replacing
them... AC is part of all this.

my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
NG furnaces...

all i know for sure is in our 2000 sqft home, my electric bill is 75%
less than NG...

any suggestions?

thanks...



--

"AND Books" wrote in message
my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
NG furnaces...

Where do you live to pay those prices? Here in CT, it is .169 kW/hr

some of the factors can be converted with free convert program:
http://joshmadison.net/software/convert/

who: residential versus commercial customer
whe specific local climate
what: rate comparison but also equipment life and service.
when: seasonal demands can be extreme
why: conserve energy/money
how: hire an architect after exploring architecture design. don't
forget customer counts and store windows are big factors besides
sunshine and insulation. and see:
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

: "AND Books" wrote in message
: my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
: installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
: only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
: NG furnaces...

: Where do you live to pay those prices? Here in CT, it is .169 kW/hr

sorry, it's here in northern indiana... kkold place, NIPSCO gas sells
@ $1.00-1.15/therm, + $.50/therm delivery + 6% sales tax..., while,
A&E sells electric at $.06-.07/ KWH... that's why i haven't use NG
at home for 2-3 years, did kerosene @ 1.70/gal last year, but today
at $3/gallon, i've shifted completely to electric.... at $.168/KWH
i think i'd be doing kerosene... but still, *not* NG at $1.90/therm

reminds me of the Beverly Hillbillies, to burn their mahogany clock
and furniture in the fireplace to keep warm... or, goto Day's Inn
at $39.00/day to save on water @ .01/gal, taxes @ $4/day, insurance
@ $5/day (incl cars), taxes @ $2/day, and so on... being squeezed to
$2/therm makes it *very* difficult...

sorry for the length, but i can go on forever....

js



--

AND Books wrote:
....

all i know for sure is in our 2000 sqft home, my electric bill is 75%
less than NG...

That does not mean it is cheaper to heat with electric unless you are
heating 50% with electric and 50% gas and not using either for anything
else.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

andbooks, I have Nipsco Ng-electric, how do I get A&E , Nipsco charges
apx .12Kwh. I would love .06kwh , Gee I could sell it to my neighbors
for .09 Kwh

:sorry, it's here in northern indiana... kkold place, NIPSCO gas sells
@ $1.00-1.15/therm, + $.50/therm delivery + 6% sales tax..., while,
A&E sells electric at $.06-.07/ KWH... that's why i haven't use NG

Be glad NIPSCO, we have Indy Vectren:

Gas $1.39, Vectren claims pressure adjustment +15%, +$42 - service
and meter fee. Now if you account for 80% furnace 2.20 - 2.30 term

I'll be taking out some of NG (replace waterheater, add heat pump)

"AND Books" wrote in message
...
a friend owns a *big* 10K+ bookstore. he's got five forced-air York NG
furnaces installed in-tandem... all of this is 5-7 years old... he's been
through small-claims, and in the past 2-3 yrs has paid 500-700 in repairs.
they're outa warrantee... he plans on ripping them all out and replacing
them... AC is part of all this.

my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
NG furnaces...

all i know for sure is in our 2000 sqft home, my electric bill is 75%
less than NG...

any suggestions?

thanks...

Rather than guessing call a licensed pro and have him work it up both ways.

Residential electric rates are typically lower than commercial rates. Does
this store have a demand meter/rate? That could push the heating fuel back
to NG.

Call the local utilities and see if there are any rebates for installed
equipment currently.

Insulation is the best bang for you buck when it comes to utilities.

"AND Books" wrote in message
...

my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
NG furnaces...


At .06/KWH ...+ no more than 3/4 cent of add-on fees I believe that
electric will be cheaper. I am not sure exactly what a therm is I looked it
up about a month ago and forgot.

NG is about $14.60 MCF here before the garbage fees and electric is
definitely a better buy since an all electric home pays .047 per KWH before
the garbage fees and the total delivered price per KWH is 0.0540 or less
(the bill I used was a small one so the customer fee was a higher % than a
normal bill.

You Yankees eat you heart out over that rate.

He may want to check with the utility company because sometimes the
residential rate and the commercial rate are different. Commercial rates
here can also be billed based on actual usage or a peak demand basis. Peak
demand is sometimes cheaper for businesses that use a large and consistent
load.


Colbyt

I will be stunned if anyone actually finds electric is cheaper!

The reason is electric is generated by burning oil, gas, nuclear or
coal. electric being another step in the process of generating heat
adds but another layer of cost.

electric will end up costing more

wrote in message
ups.com...
I will be stunned if anyone actually finds electric is cheaper!

The reason is electric is generated by burning oil, gas, nuclear or
coal. electric being another step in the process of generating heat
adds but another layer of cost.

electric will end up costing more

You would think that, but when you look at the rates, what can I say?

http://www.lebanon-utilities.com/e_rates.html Sure wish we had them here.
I'd save about $80 a month on electric.

AND Books wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

: "AND Books" wrote in message
: my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
: installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
: only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
: NG furnaces...

: Where do you live to pay those prices? Here in CT, it is .169 kW/hr

sorry, it's here in northern indiana... kkold place, NIPSCO gas sells
@ $1.00-1.15/therm, + $.50/therm delivery + 6% sales tax..., while,
A&E sells electric at $.06-.07/ KWH... that's why i haven't use NG

That may be be the price of the electricity but it sounds like you
forgot to include the distribution charges/taxes etc.



at home for 2-3 years, did kerosene @ 1.70/gal last year, but today
at $3/gallon, i've shifted completely to electric.... at $.168/KWH
i think i'd be doing kerosene... but still, *not* NG at $1.90/therm

reminds me of the Beverly Hillbillies, to burn their mahogany clock
and furniture in the fireplace to keep warm... or, goto Day's Inn
at $39.00/day to save on water @ .01/gal, taxes @ $4/day, insurance
@ $5/day (incl cars), taxes @ $2/day, and so on... being squeezed to
$2/therm makes it *very* difficult...

sorry for the length, but i can go on forever....

js

The cost for Gas water heating is horrible and tank recovery that is
gallons per hour for electric are about half as much as gas, gas stoves
are commonly accepted as being better than electric and dont have
troubles like burners that fry out.

theres lots to consider when thinking of converting to electric heat.
with heat pumps they arent too bad at 50 degrees, but below 30 they
become resistant heat only and bills skyrocket

"George" wrote in message
...
AND Books wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

: "AND Books" wrote in message
: my suggestion is that with NG being $1.90/therm, he'd be better off
: installing electric 220V heaters at $.06/KWH ...
: only 1 floor needs winter heat, rather than reinstalling 80% efficient
: NG furnaces...

: Where do you live to pay those prices? Here in CT, it is .169 kW/hr
sorry, it's here in northern indiana... kkold place, NIPSCO gas sells
@ $1.00-1.15/therm, + $.50/therm delivery + 6% sales tax..., while,
A&E sells electric at $.06-.07/ KWH... that's why i haven't use NG

That may be be the price of the electricity but it sounds like you forgot
to include the distribution charges/taxes etc.



at home for 2-3 years, did kerosene @ 1.70/gal last year, but today
at $3/gallon, i've shifted completely to electric.... at $.168/KWH
i think i'd be doing kerosene... but still, *not* NG at $1.90/therm

reminds me of the Beverly Hillbillies, to burn their mahogany clock
and furniture in the fireplace to keep warm... or, goto Day's Inn
at $39.00/day to save on water @ .01/gal, taxes @ $4/day, insurance
@ $5/day (incl cars), taxes @ $2/day, and so on... being squeezed to
$2/therm makes it *very* difficult...

sorry for the length, but i can go on forever....

js



I live in Indy with an all electric home - IPL has a special rate for all
electric houses - my
average cost/kWh was 4.9 cents (delivered, with all metering fees, taxes,
whatever - thats the bottom line cost on the bill that I write a check for)
for 2005.
Outside of NW IN, Indiana rates are pretty low.

stk