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Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:55:09 GMT, "Pop" : Gave us: : : : "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : .. . : : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:54:33 GMT, "Long Ranger" : : Gave us: : : : : : : "Pop" wrote in message : : news:TOyEf.30398$OY4.5664@trndny02... : : : : "Long Ranger" wrote in : message : : k.net... : : : : : : "Toller" wrote in message : : : ... : : : : : : "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in : : message : : : ... : : : On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:55:00 -0600, Bud-- : : : : : Gave us: : : : : : : The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded : wire : : in a pressure : : : connection. : : : : : : : : : Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be : soldered. : : : : : : I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for : that? : : : (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of : this : : : prohibition...) : : : : : : It goes back to depending on the solder for the : connection. The : : solder is : : : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, : it : : gets loose. You : : : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the : : connector. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : rather : : than a written rule? : : : : Pop : : : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but : that I tended : : to agree with it. : : : : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. : : If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, : you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be : decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific : case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on : the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn : makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an : "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and : regulations. : : Pop : : Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped : connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. : There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC : standards and practices. : : It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". : : The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. : The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between : military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, : yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:14:56 -0500, repatch Gave
us: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 05:38:28 +0000, Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather than a written rule? Pop Absolutely not. Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice for any compression type connection. Just curious, what is the opinion for the following: crimping the connection, and THEN soldering it? Personally, I feel it to be OK, but as far as specs go (and they are many times set forth by the manufacturers then adopted by standards organizations) I think it is still nix. The crimp connectors wet very well. Most fresh wire wets very well. The connector, after crimping, is very tight if done correctly. Adding solder would heat it up, causing its inside diameter to expand a bit, but it shouldn't change the integrity of the crimp. If you are having trouble getting a crimp connector on tight, either the connector is not matched to the wire size, or the wrong crimp die was used, or the connector is cheap chinese crap, and only LOOKS like a real connector. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:00:37 GMT, "Pop" : Gave us: : : : "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : .. . : : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : : : Gave us: : : : : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : : than a written rule? : : : : Pop : : : : Absolutely not. : : : : Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice : for any : : compression type connection. : : You obviously don't know what "interpretation" means w/r to rules : & regs. : : You obviously do not know the difference between rules and : regulations which people have the ability to "interpret" and rules and : regulations which are set in stone, and not open to "interpretation". : : ANY inspector that thinks that it is HIS or HER duly "authorized" : right to bend, meld or "interpret" the rules is an idiot that doesn't : know how to ASK his superior for an answer when he or she gets stuck : on an issue. ALL circumstances in the industry are covered, and NONE : of them are mutable through individual interpretation and ANY : inspector that thinks they are is not now, nor never was a real : inspector. : : Interpretation by different authorized" people are : exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : question : : Actually, that should read: : : "stupidity by different promoted past their level of competency twits : are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : question..." : : when it's answered from the rules & regs. If you really : know mil-specs, then you know that. : : "If you really know mil specs" then you'd know that that is not true : in any way shape or form. NOTHING is left open to interpretation, by : inspectors or otherwise. Bingo! That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. You stepped in it that time big time. Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. Good luck. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On 1 Feb 2006 12:56:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle"
Gave us: The reason why I'm asking is because I've been doing a whole bunch of reading about issues with aluminum wire, one of the issues being the thermal expansion problems caused by the aluminum wire expanding at a different rate than the screw connector it's connected to on an outlet/switch/etc. So this made me wonder if the solder will cause any problems with thermal expansion of it being different than the screw that it's screwed on to, etc.? Soldering Aluminum is not easy to start with, and requires special solders and usually higher temperatures. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle"
Gave us: Could someone provide a link to a picture of what I should be using ... ie: what the crimp-on connector looks like? Thanks, Harry Their appearance varies from maker to maker. Most have an insulating sleeve on them, but they can be bought without it as well. Screw terminals that have a removable screw can have "ring lugs" used on them. Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. The type with the forked, open front section. Clamp lugs can use bare wire, or a "pin lug" for assemblies that cannot have wire shards around. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:20:42 GMT, "Pop"
Gave us: Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind. I feel sorry for you and the rest of Usenet with the way your sad news client handles quoting. It is probably a good news client that your retarded ass screwed up with stupid characters to place in front of quoted material that are unrecognized by the rest of the REAL world. What else are you going to do today that is totally retarded? By the way, your argument was baseless and free of useful debate content, just like we knew it would be. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:23:51 GMT, "Pop"
Gave us: Bingo! You're an idiot. That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about You have proven nothing. Abso-****ing-lutely nothing, in fact. and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. Bull****. I have taught soldering. I have been an inspector in several different departments. I have done compliance engineering. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. You stepped in it that time big time. You continue to make obscure bull**** references without actually pontificating on a damned thing. Has that problem dogged you all your life? Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. You're an idiot that has yet to make a single valid argument. All you have done is spout nonsense from the moment you found out that someone didn't agree with you. Par for the course with a dolt like you. Good luck. Luck isn't even a factor, dip****. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
: In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS
rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : to agree with it. : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations. Pop Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices. It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. This is particularly true in government circles. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". All in all, Roy may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be". |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. By far my favorite line from this knave. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:38:02 GMT, "Long Ranger"
Gave us: : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : to agree with it. : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations. Pop Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices. It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. No. I am miffed that someone that perhaps at one time had a position anywhere near an that of an inspector makes a claim to the effect that "we get to read the guidelines, and then adjust them to our liking". Not so. Not in ANY industry or for ANY standard I know of. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. You're a goddamned idiot... and a troll as well. Chew on that, asswipe. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! I take it back. You are a pathetic, adolescent retard. Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, Just the facts, baby! -- Kojak You're a ****ing schoolyard mentality idiot. Even your pokes and lames are ****ing retarded. and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. You think your tone changes anything about what you retarded ass is saying right now? It matters not if you cuss now or never, you are STILL the same asshole you were when you started this troll baby bull****, boy. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. "Pop" went off like a ****ing loon at the very notion that someone disagreed with him... AND he was and still is wrong, as are you. This is particularly true in government circles. You're a ****ing E-1 grade twit. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, No ****, dip****. Electronics, and electrical regulations are NOT open to negotiation or interpretation by idiots that are too incompetent to make valid assessments about the physics involved in a mechanical system, much less an electrical one. but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". You will not fund that in military or jdec or eic electrical acceptance standards. The NEC can say whatever they want, but in my experience the persons placed in those position typically have half a brain. Their "interpretation" matches that of every "authorized" person that ever came down the pike. All in all, Roy All in all, you're a goddamned retarded troll ****tard that wants to stir ****. Well, guess what, dumbass? You ARE that ****, and you just got stirred. may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, Bull****. I used to build engines too. Racing engines. Pop doesn't stand a chance in *that* competition either. because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be". Your assessments are about as valid as anything else you ever contributed to the group... nil. You are unsolicited, unqualified, unprofessional, and rate somewhere below E-1. I could guess at standards and get them right more often then he could get them after making his "interpretations"... or you for that matter, boy. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:57:22 GMT, "Long Ranger"
Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message .. . On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. By far my favorite line from this knave. Bugger off, troll dip****! |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:38:02 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : to agree with it. : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations. Pop Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices. It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. No. I am miffed that someone that perhaps at one time had a position anywhere near an that of an inspector makes a claim to the effect that "we get to read the guidelines, and then adjust them to our liking". Not so. Not in ANY industry or for ANY standard I know of. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. You're a goddamned idiot... and a troll as well. Chew on that, asswipe. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! I take it back. You are a pathetic, adolescent retard. Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, Just the facts, baby! -- Kojak You're a ****ing schoolyard mentality idiot. Even your pokes and lames are ****ing retarded. and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. You think your tone changes anything about what you retarded ass is saying right now? It matters not if you cuss now or never, you are STILL the same asshole you were when you started this troll baby bull****, boy. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. "Pop" went off like a ****ing loon at the very notion that someone disagreed with him... AND he was and still is wrong, as are you. This is particularly true in government circles. You're a ****ing E-1 grade twit. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, No ****, dip****. Electronics, and electrical regulations are NOT open to negotiation or interpretation by idiots that are too incompetent to make valid assessments about the physics involved in a mechanical system, much less an electrical one. but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". You will not fund that in military or jdec or eic electrical acceptance standards. The NEC can say whatever they want, but in my experience the persons placed in those position typically have half a brain. Their "interpretation" matches that of every "authorized" person that ever came down the pike. All in all, Roy All in all, you're a goddamned retarded troll ****tard that wants to stir ****. Well, guess what, dumbass? You ARE that ****, and you just got stirred. may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, Bull****. I used to build engines too. Racing engines. Pop doesn't stand a chance in *that* competition either. because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be". Your assessments are about as valid as anything else you ever contributed to the group... nil. You are unsolicited, unqualified, unprofessional, and rate somewhere below E-1. I could guess at standards and get them right more often then he could get them after making his "interpretations"... or you for that matter, boy. Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. Done reading such crap. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. Goodbye little boy. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
First, I do not have a copy of the current Canadian Electrical Code. I
would call a Provincial or local building official for a proper answer. But in the USA.... Using solder on stranded building wire used in building electrical systems is not a normal trade practice. First, it is not economical, and secondly, there are too many different methods and materials that can be used to solder. Soldering can be more damaging than helpful if not done properly. For instance wicking can cause wires to become brittle and permit breakage. There are many alloys of solder some requiring the use of resin core others the use of acid for soldering. Soldering, in short, introduces a whole range of variables that cannot be controlled in the field. But the main reason it is not done is it simply takes too much time and is not necessary. For splicing, wire nuts are commonly used. For terminations, buy receptacles and switches that are listed for use with stranded wire. If you have to use solid wire for terminations, then attach a pigtail then wire nut the solid wire to the stranded wire. Better yet, replace the stranded wire with solid. The NEC Section requiring that the listing instructions be followed is 110.3(B). This has been in the (USA) National Electrical Code for as long as I can remember. References: From the 2005 NEC 110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. 110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment. FPN: Many terminations and equipment are marked with a tightening torque. (A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors. Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:08:30 GMT, "Long Ranger"
Gave us: Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, You didn't "dissect" anything to begin with, you ****ed in the head RETARD! but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. You seem to be making an effort to troll me fairly well. **** off, dip****. Done reading such crap. You wrote the crap. I wrote what is, and ever shall be. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. You need to grow several feet then, you adolescent troll punk. Goodbye little boy. Hahahahaha... you're a ****ing joke. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info.
wrote in message oups.com... : First, I do not have a copy of the current Canadian Electrical Code. I : would call a Provincial or local building official for a proper answer. : But in the USA.... : Using solder on stranded building wire used in building electrical : systems is not a normal trade practice. First, it is not economical, : and secondly, there are too many different methods and materials that : can be used to solder. Soldering can be more damaging than helpful if : not done properly. For instance wicking can cause wires to become : brittle and permit breakage. There are many alloys of solder some : requiring the use of resin core others the use of acid for soldering. : Soldering, in short, introduces a whole range of variables that cannot : be controlled in the field. But the main reason it is not done is it : simply takes too much time and is not necessary. For splicing, wire : nuts are commonly used. For terminations, buy receptacles and switches : that are listed for use with stranded wire. If you have to use solid : wire for terminations, then attach a pigtail then wire nut the solid : wire to the stranded wire. Better yet, replace the stranded wire with : solid. The NEC Section requiring that the listing instructions be : followed is 110.3(B). This has been in the (USA) National Electrical : Code for as long as I can remember. : : References: : From the 2005 NEC : : 110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment : shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions : included in the listing or labeling. : : 110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics : of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure : terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs : shall be identified for the material of the conductor and : shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar : metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing : connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar : conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and : copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), : unless the device is identified for the purpose and : conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, : and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for : the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect : the conductors, installation, or equipment. : FPN: Many terminations and equipment are marked with : a tightening torque. : (A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts : shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging : the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors : (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to : flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or : studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall : be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors. : Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals : used to connect aluminum shall be so identified. : |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop"
Gave us: Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info. Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong. Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well. Don't know what TOFU is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post about a third of the way down... http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised? |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:40:45 +0000, Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT wrote:
Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:56:25 GMT, "Toller" Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:55:00 -0600, Bud-- Gave us: The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded wire in a pressure connection. Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be soldered. I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for that? (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of this prohibition...) A gas tight crimped fitting doesn't need solder, or pass standards with solder added either. My standard is likely a mil standard, though I would think it is in the NEC as well. Care to quote chapter and verse? Of course not. It's *his* standard. -- KEith |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:08:30 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, You didn't "dissect" anything to begin with, you ****ed in the head RETARD! but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. You seem to be making an effort to troll me fairly well. **** off, dip****. Done reading such crap. You wrote the crap. I wrote what is, and ever shall be. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. You need to grow several feet then, you adolescent troll punk. Goodbye little boy. Hahahahaha... you're a ****ing joke. So Numby, you seem to have a certain effect on other people. Why is that? -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:23:51 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Bingo! You're an idiot. That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about You have proven nothing. Abso-****ing-lutely nothing, in fact. and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. Bull****. I have taught soldering. I have been an inspector in several different departments. I have done compliance engineering. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah You stepped in it that time big time. You continue to make obscure bull**** references without actually pontificating on a damned thing. Has that problem dogged you all your life? Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. You're an idiot that has yet to make a single valid argument. All you have done is spout nonsense from the moment you found out that someone didn't agree with you. Par for the course with a dolt like you. Good luck. Luck isn't even a factor, dip****. I present the world's most highest intellect -- Numby Genius, Esq. -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:57:22 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message . .. On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. By far my favorite line from this knave. Bugger off, troll dip****! Wow, you sure told him off, Numby. -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
Ed. note: this is a top-posted reply solely because it causes
immediate Numby Genius meltdown. Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info. Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong. Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well. Don't know what TOFU is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post about a third of the way down... http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised? -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Art Deco" wrote in message ... Ed. note: this is a top-posted reply solely because it causes immediate Numby Genius meltdown. Stop top posting, fish. Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info. Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong. Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well. Don't know what TOFU is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post about a third of the way down... http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised? -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Art Deco" wrote in message ... Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:57:22 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. By far my favorite line from this knave. Bugger off, troll dip****! Wow, you sure told him off, Numby. I can tell you off now, if you really want. -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Art Deco" wrote in message ... Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:23:51 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Bingo! You're an idiot. That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about You have proven nothing. Abso-****ing-lutely nothing, in fact. and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. Bull****. I have taught soldering. I have been an inspector in several different departments. I have done compliance engineering. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah You stepped in it that time big time. You continue to make obscure bull**** references without actually pontificating on a damned thing. Has that problem dogged you all your life? Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. You're an idiot that has yet to make a single valid argument. All you have done is spout nonsense from the moment you found out that someone didn't agree with you. Par for the course with a dolt like you. Good luck. Luck isn't even a factor, dip****. I present the world's most highest intellect -- Numby Genius, Esq. There have been numerous incidents where you misquoted a poster. Why didn't you use the exact quote? -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Art Deco" wrote in message ... Roy L. Fuchs wrote: On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:08:30 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, You didn't "dissect" anything to begin with, you ****ed in the head RETARD! but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. You seem to be making an effort to troll me fairly well. **** off, dip****. Done reading such crap. You wrote the crap. I wrote what is, and ever shall be. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. You need to grow several feet then, you adolescent troll punk. Goodbye little boy. Hahahahaha... you're a ****ing joke. So Numby, you seem to have a certain effect on other people. Why is that? Everybody has a certain effect on other people. Your effect is being fishy. -- Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler Official Overseer of Kooks and Saucerheads in alt.astronomy Co-Winner, alt.(f)lame Worst Flame War, December 2005 "Causation of gravity is missing frame field always attempting renormalization back to base memory of equalized uniform momentum." -- nightbat the saucerhead-in-chief "Have patience. First I shall deal with the State of Oregon and County of Josephine, Then the AFAB, government/media disinformation Agents with whom you conspire to libel me and my family. Your time will come." -- Raymond Ronald Karczewski©, usenet "christ" "Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, and rather ironic, coming from someone who obviously has no understanding of what a signature is. Tell me, Haslam, do you sign your checks as 'Can't you show a little restraint?'" -- David Tholen, Clueless Newbie of the Month, February 2003 |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:34:11 -0500, Keith Gave us:
Of course not. It's *his* standard. You're a ****ing retard, boy. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Harry Muscle" wrote in message ups.com... Does coating stranded copper wire with solder and then connecting it to a standard outlet cause any issues or break any codes? I have a small project I put together (this is all inside of a big box ... ie: not inside a wall or part of the house ... but I still would like to make sure it's safe and meets any code requirements as if it was inside a wall or part of the house) which uses stranded copper wire (14AWG). I coated the ends with solder and then bend them to shape before connecting them to standard outlets (screwed on, not the push in). Will this cause any problems or break any electrical codes (I'm located in Ontario, Canada in case that matters). The reason why I'm asking is because I've been doing a whole bunch of reading about issues with aluminum wire, one of the issues being the thermal expansion problems caused by the aluminum wire expanding at a different rate than the screw connector it's connected to on an outlet/switch/etc. So this made me wonder if the solder will cause any problems with thermal expansion of it being different than the screw that it's screwed on to, etc.? Thanks for any info you share, Harry Copper wires melt at a higher temperature to any solde you may use. If there is a lot of heat generated in the circuitry you could melt the solder. The orders of magnitude of *linear* expansion of the metals you refer to Aluminium (pure) alpha = 23*10^-6 (20 at 200K, 23.2 at 300K, 24.9 at 400K, 26.4 at 500K, 28.3 600, 33.8 at 800K you could graph it from that) Copper (pure) alpha = 13.7 *10^-6 (15.1 at 200K, 16.8, 17.7, 18.3, 18.9, 20 at 800K) per deltaKelvin. melting point Al= 933K, Cu=1356. if you find the data for the solder you use you can calculate your expansion characteristics (absolute and relative) and also check to see if your solder will melt. Using the data for the thermo-electric effects and the dimensions of the lines inquestion you cna calculate the heat evolved by the current in the lines, terminals and all. -- Billy H When a ship heels at sea she must give equal draught to lee as she takes to windward. Else she becomes unstable fore and aft, and may become quite sickly. Nantes-Howard Naval Architecture 'n' Terrestrial Engineering Services. ______________________________________ Live like a ship. Give and Take. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Calvin Henry-Cotnam" wrote in message om... Andrew Gabriel ) said... You should not solder stranded wire prior to putting it into a screw terminal. Solder creeps under pressure, so the contact pressure will steadily reduce over time until it forms a bad contact. Is there any reason to consider tinning the ends when fixing through a screw terminal? The surface area of contact would be increased at the contact I suppose, and thereby increase the area of contact for the passage of electrons, but the cables should never be used *at capacity*. Next thought is on how the crimped terminals of the wires lose area of contact for passage of electrons and hence the heat evolved on the lines at the terminal(s) increases as a proportion borne on each line. Hence consideration would lead me to increase cable sizes and design cable sizes for the terminals; the specifications being based upon the surface area made at the fixing and the heat I would wish to allow there. The only place I ever use stranded wire with screw terminals is in a lamp, and I have on occasion tinned the end first. I find the creep problem very bad and screws and stranded wire are a bad mix. I have had a few instances where #14 or #12 stranded wire was pulled through a conduit, so instead of trying to attach it to a screw terminal, I would pigtail a short piece of solid wire to it and attach it to the terminal. -- Calvin Henry-Cotnam "Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid" |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"MC" wrote in message .. . Pop wrote: "Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message .. . : In article . com, : "Harry Muscle" writes: : Does coating stranded copper wire with solder and then connecting it to : a standard outlet cause any issues or break any codes? : : I have a small project I put together (this is all inside of a big box : ... ie: not inside a wall or part of the house ... but I still would : like to make sure it's safe and meets any code requirements as if it : was inside a wall or part of the house) which uses stranded copper wire : (14AWG). I coated the ends with solder and then bend them to shape : before connecting them to standard outlets (screwed on, not the push : in). Will this cause any problems or break any electrical codes (I'm : located in Ontario, Canada in case that matters). : : The reason why I'm asking is because I've been doing a whole bunch of : reading about issues with aluminum wire, one of the issues being the : thermal expansion problems caused by the aluminum wire expanding at a : different rate than the screw connector it's connected to on an : outlet/switch/etc. So this made me wonder if the solder will cause any : problems with thermal expansion of it being different than the screw : that it's screwed on to, etc.? : : You should not solder stranded wire prior to putting it into : a screw terminal. Solder creeps under pressure, so the contact : pressure will steadily reduce over time until it forms a bad : contact. Strands which are tinned during the cable manufacture : are OK, as the solder layer thickness is controlled and very thin. : I'm not familiar with your local regulations, but in cases of : stranded wire connecting to terminations which don't work well : with stranded wire, the normal method is to crimp on a bootlace : ferrule or an eyelet, depending on the terminal style. : : -- : Andrew Gabriel I know that, at least on Ottawa, and I imagine most places, you cannot tin wires to be used where an electrical inspecation is necessary. Same in the states. No, I cannot cite NEC, so no use asking. The reasons are exactly as Andrew pointed out. Solder compresses and deforms to whatever force is applied to it and as soon as air creeps in, there is corrosion, moisture, etc etc etc., not to mention the affects of vibrations, etc.. How do I know? I got to see a connection that failed, then started to heat (high currents) and the solder dripped out of the connection onto the wireing below it. No, it's not a horror story, but the melted solder wasn't too cute inside the box. Whoever installed it didn't know the first thing about tinning, besides it not being acceptable to do; he had the wiring well "blobbed" with sodlerg. I think I understand why you want to tin it, but properly dressed stranded wire will work perfectly under appropriate screw heads. If it's a permanent install, I'd modify it accordingly, again along the lines of Andrew's suggestions. He's right on. Pop I like a mechanical crimp to a terminal, but then followed up by soldering That's a good idea. The problem of lost contact area is assuaged somewhat by the fact of coating the wire and the terminal with solder. Other problems inside the connection are negated. My father used crimped connections on all his wiring on his house, then soldered and taped (no wire nuts, was done in 1970) All still works great. At time when having to replace an outlet or light switch, everthing was still pretty solid, but do intend on doing a preety thorough inspection soon including junction boxes in the attic. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:20:42 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind. I feel sorry for you and the rest of Usenet with the way your sad news client handles quoting. It is probably a good news client that your retarded ass screwed up with stupid characters to place in front of quoted material that are unrecognized by the rest of the REAL world. What else are you going to do today that is totally retarded? By the way, your argument was baseless and free of useful debate content, just like we knew it would be. Slagging matches so **** me off in usenet posting. Life is too short to be caught up reading about some fools' gripes with another in the middle of a serious discussion. Makes it sound like Parliament. Part of the reason the country is run by lawyers methinks. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Pop" wrote in message news:KOPEf.60$pY.19@trndny01... "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:55:09 GMT, "Pop" : Gave us: : : : "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : .. . : : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:54:33 GMT, "Long Ranger" : : Gave us: : : : : : : "Pop" wrote in message : : news:TOyEf.30398$OY4.5664@trndny02... : : : : "Long Ranger" wrote in : message : : k.net... : : : : : : "Toller" wrote in message : : : ... : : : : : : "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in : : message : : : ... : : : On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:55:00 -0600, Bud-- : : : : : Gave us: : : : : : : The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded : wire : : in a pressure : : : connection. : : : : : : : : : Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be : soldered. : : : : : : I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for : that? : : : (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of : this : : : prohibition...) : : : : : : It goes back to depending on the solder for the : connection. The : : solder is : : : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, : it : : gets loose. You : : : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the : : connector. : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : rather : : than a written rule? : : : : Pop : : : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but : that I tended : : to agree with it. : : : : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. : : If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, : you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be : decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific : case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on : the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn : makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an : "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and : regulations. : : Pop : : Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped : connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. : There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC : standards and practices. : : It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". : : The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. : The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between : military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, : yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind. If you *get inside* a soldered or tinned end and think of the strands, how the electricity actually *moves* then the concept begins to open up. Electricity travels on the surface of the circuitry. For wires the area of travel is the surface area of the cable, Length*Pi*diameter. Adding solder changes the surface areas and if you blob the terminal rather than tin the strands you change the surface area of the wire and hence the physical characteristics of the cable. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Long Ranger" wrote in message nk.net... : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : to agree with it. : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations. Pop Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices. It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. This is particularly true in government circles. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". All in all, Roy may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be". We should have a ****in age limit put on these groups. Anyone who posts ****e should be disenfranchised. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Long Ranger" wrote in message nk.net... "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:38:02 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us: : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : to agree with it. : : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations. Pop Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices. It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false. O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. No. I am miffed that someone that perhaps at one time had a position anywhere near an that of an inspector makes a claim to the effect that "we get to read the guidelines, and then adjust them to our liking". Not so. Not in ANY industry or for ANY standard I know of. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. You're a goddamned idiot... and a troll as well. Chew on that, asswipe. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! I take it back. You are a pathetic, adolescent retard. Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, Just the facts, baby! -- Kojak You're a ****ing schoolyard mentality idiot. Even your pokes and lames are ****ing retarded. and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. You think your tone changes anything about what you retarded ass is saying right now? It matters not if you cuss now or never, you are STILL the same asshole you were when you started this troll baby bull****, boy. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. "Pop" went off like a ****ing loon at the very notion that someone disagreed with him... AND he was and still is wrong, as are you. This is particularly true in government circles. You're a ****ing E-1 grade twit. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, No ****, dip****. Electronics, and electrical regulations are NOT open to negotiation or interpretation by idiots that are too incompetent to make valid assessments about the physics involved in a mechanical system, much less an electrical one. but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". You will not fund that in military or jdec or eic electrical acceptance standards. The NEC can say whatever they want, but in my experience the persons placed in those position typically have half a brain. Their "interpretation" matches that of every "authorized" person that ever came down the pike. All in all, Roy All in all, you're a goddamned retarded troll ****tard that wants to stir ****. Well, guess what, dumbass? You ARE that ****, and you just got stirred. may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, Bull****. I used to build engines too. Racing engines. Pop doesn't stand a chance in *that* competition either. because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be". Your assessments are about as valid as anything else you ever contributed to the group... nil. You are unsolicited, unqualified, unprofessional, and rate somewhere below E-1. I could guess at standards and get them right more often then he could get them after making his "interpretations"... or you for that matter, boy. Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. Done reading such crap. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. Goodbye little boy. Billy H Is tickled pink by your wit. But doesn't think you of much of a mature mind neither. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:00:37 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message . .. : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : Gave us: : : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Absolutely not. : : Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice for any : compression type connection. You obviously don't know what "interpretation" means w/r to rules & regs. You obviously do not know the difference between rules and regulations which people have the ability to "interpret" and rules and regulations which are set in stone, and not open to "interpretation". ANY inspector that thinks that it is HIS or HER duly "authorized" right to bend, meld or "interpret" the rules is an idiot that doesn't know how to ASK his superior for an answer when he or she gets stuck on an issue. ALL circumstances in the industry are covered, and NONE of them are mutable through individual interpretation and ANY inspector that thinks they are is not now, nor never was a real inspector. Interpretation by different authorized" people are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same question Actually, that should read: "stupidity by different promoted past their level of competency twits are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same question..." when it's answered from the rules & regs. If you really know mil-specs, then you know that. "If you really know mil specs" then you'd know that that is not true in any way shape or form. NOTHING is left open to interpretation, by inspectors or otherwise. So ... stop playing semantics or stop being silly. Grow the **** up, grandpa. Bull****. The only true understanding is a true interpretation. Corinthians 2:36 All statutes are open for interpretation, a judge in court interprets the statute when he passes judgement, he can do no more. It's the only due reason I give to politicians who wish to change the present law if it is old but correct. Old English language is more difficult for the lay person to interpret and hence to understand than modern language. But then we are not all of the same intellect, patience or will. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Billy H" m wrote in message ... "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:00:37 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : Gave us: : : In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : than a written rule? : : Pop : : Absolutely not. : : Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice for any : compression type connection. You obviously don't know what "interpretation" means w/r to rules & regs. You obviously do not know the difference between rules and regulations which people have the ability to "interpret" and rules and regulations which are set in stone, and not open to "interpretation". ANY inspector that thinks that it is HIS or HER duly "authorized" right to bend, meld or "interpret" the rules is an idiot that doesn't know how to ASK his superior for an answer when he or she gets stuck on an issue. ALL circumstances in the industry are covered, and NONE of them are mutable through individual interpretation and ANY inspector that thinks they are is not now, nor never was a real inspector. Interpretation by different authorized" people are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same question Actually, that should read: "stupidity by different promoted past their level of competency twits are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same question..." when it's answered from the rules & regs. If you really know mil-specs, then you know that. "If you really know mil specs" then you'd know that that is not true in any way shape or form. NOTHING is left open to interpretation, by inspectors or otherwise. So ... stop playing semantics or stop being silly. Grow the **** up, grandpa. Bull****. The only true understanding is a true interpretation. Corinthians 2:36 My apologies 2 corinthians chapter 3 line 6. "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." http://www.bible-sermons.org.uk/bible/2-Corinthians_3/ All statutes are open for interpretation, a judge in court interprets the statute when he passes judgement, he can do no more. It's the only due reason I give to politicians who wish to change the present law if it is old but correct. Old English language is more difficult for the lay person to interpret and hence to understand than modern language. But then we are not all of the same intellect, patience or will. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Gave us: Could someone provide a link to a picture of what I should be using ... ie: what the crimp-on connector looks like? Thanks, Harry Their appearance varies from maker to maker. Most have an insulating sleeve on them, but they can be bought without it as well. Screw terminals that have a removable screw can have "ring lugs" used on them. Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. The type with the forked, open front section. Clamp lugs can use bare wire, or a "pin lug" for assemblies that cannot have wire shards around. You still should not blob the end of the wire or you'd lose surface area and increase heat. Tinning strands leads to creep problems, which was an enlightneing thing to read in here. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop" Gave us: Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info. Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong. Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well. Don't know what TOFU is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post about a third of the way down... http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised? You have bored me stupid. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 06:21:58 +0000, Roy L. Fuchs wrote:
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:34:11 -0500, Keith Gave us: Of course not. It's *his* standard. You're a ****ing retard, boy. Just pointing out what *you* said, kid. -- Keith |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:56:21 -0000, "Billy H"
m Gave us: "Harry Muscle" wrote in message oups.com... Does coating stranded copper wire with solder and then connecting it to a standard outlet cause any issues or break any codes? I have a small project I put together (this is all inside of a big box ... ie: not inside a wall or part of the house ... but I still would like to make sure it's safe and meets any code requirements as if it was inside a wall or part of the house) which uses stranded copper wire (14AWG). I coated the ends with solder and then bend them to shape before connecting them to standard outlets (screwed on, not the push in). Will this cause any problems or break any electrical codes (I'm located in Ontario, Canada in case that matters). The reason why I'm asking is because I've been doing a whole bunch of reading about issues with aluminum wire, one of the issues being the thermal expansion problems caused by the aluminum wire expanding at a different rate than the screw connector it's connected to on an outlet/switch/etc. So this made me wonder if the solder will cause any problems with thermal expansion of it being different than the screw that it's screwed on to, etc.? Thanks for any info you share, Harry Copper wires melt at a higher temperature to any solde you may use. Bull**** Copper has a higher melt point temperature than any solder you may use. You MIGHT have been attempting to refer to the insulation on SOME types of wire. If so, you failed miserably. If there is a lot of heat generated in the circuitry you could melt the solder. Odd statement there. If there is that much heat generated at a connection node, the wiring installation has much more deeper seated problems than melted solder. The orders of magnitude of *linear* expansion of the metals you refer to Aluminium (pure) alpha = 23*10^-6 (20 at 200K, 23.2 at 300K, 24.9 at 400K, 26.4 at 500K, 28.3 600, 33.8 at 800K you could graph it from that) Copper (pure) alpha = 13.7 *10^-6 (15.1 at 200K, 16.8, 17.7, 18.3, 18.9, 20 at 800K) per deltaKelvin. melting point Al= 933K, Cu=1356. if you find the data for the solder you use you can calculate your expansion characteristics (absolute and relative) and also check to see if your solder will melt. Jeez, you are so far off base. It is truly pathetic. Solder creep has to do with physical, mechanical stress, not temperature. Using the data for the thermo-electric effects and the dimensions of the lines inquestion you cna calculate the heat evolved by the current in the lines, terminals and all. The heat in ANY properly installed circuit will never reach the melting point of ANY metal used in the industry. |
Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?
On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:19:41 -0000, "Billy H"
m Gave us: "Calvin Henry-Cotnam" wrote in message . com... Andrew Gabriel ) said... You should not solder stranded wire prior to putting it into a screw terminal. Solder creeps under pressure, so the contact pressure will steadily reduce over time until it forms a bad contact. Is there any reason to consider tinning the ends when fixing through a screw terminal? The surface area of contact would be increased at the contact I suppose, and thereby increase the area of contact for the passage of electrons, but the cables should never be used *at capacity*. Next thought is on how the crimped terminals of the wires lose area of contact for passage of electrons and hence the heat evolved on the lines at the terminal(s) increases as a proportion borne on each line. On a soldered wire, it would be due to solder creep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_%28deformation%29 Hence consideration would lead me to increase cable sizes and design cable sizes for the terminals; the specifications being based upon the surface area made at the fixing and the heat I would wish to allow there. In a proper connection, the heat rise is only a few degrees more than that produced in the conductor itself. If there is an excessive differential between the heat in a conductor, and the heat generated at a connection node, then the connection either has a problem, or is not of a sufficient capacity for the current in the circuit. |
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