My 1937 two story home only has 60 amp service. The wiring to the lights
and outlet receptacles is all two wire, no ground.
Electric water heater and electric range plus two window A/Cs but it
handles all the loads okay

The Main and Range fuses are all 60 amp. I need to take the cover off
and see if the water heater and range are on the Range circuit.
If it is wired that way it would provide a total of 120 Amps through
those two circuits and 60 amp fuses.

I need to total the amps with water heater and all elements of the range
drawing current.

One large and one small surface element are burned out and I don't need
them, so did not replace them.
Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell

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I'd start with having a 200 amp breaker panel, meter base, and service
entrance cable installed. Your electric company can tell you if they need to
replace their wires. Then put each wire on it's own properly sized breaker.
After that, you can start thinking about adding receptacles, etc.

"udarrell" wrote in message
...
My 1937 two story home only has 60 amp service. The wiring to the lights
and outlet receptacles is all two wire, no ground.
Electric water heater and electric range plus two window A/Cs but it
handles all the loads okay

The Main and Range fuses are all 60 amp. I need to take the cover off
and see if the water heater and range are on the Range circuit.
If it is wired that way it would provide a total of 120 Amps through
those two circuits and 60 amp fuses.

I need to total the amps with water heater and all elements of the range
drawing current.

One large and one small surface element are burned out and I don't need
them, so did not replace them.
Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell

--
The Money Saving Free Satellite TV Gift Offer of a Life-Time. Don't miss
this opportunity for you and all your friends, - they will be forever
Grateful. My life's mission: saving you and your friends a lot of money in
every possible way.

http://www.udarrell.com/free_dish_di...ellite_tv.html


http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

In article ,
says...

Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell

Personally, yes, I would puobably have the house rewired. If you have
original 1937 wiring that has been modified over the years, it's hard to
know if it's really safe without tearing into the walls to see what
condition it's in, how it has been changed over the years, etc. Who
patched in a bathroom fan with Romex duct-taped to the knob & tube,
where have the rats gotten at it, etc.

At the same time, you'll be upgrading to grounded wiring, GFCIs, hard-
wired smoke detectors, and various other safety improvements.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

udarrell wrote:

Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell

100 amp service should suffice, given that your getting by with 60A and
electric appliances now.

The rewiring is more a function of access. If you DIY you can take your
time to fiddle with it, and do minimal damage. If your a pro, you knock
out walls to keep the labor costs down.

If you decide to DIY, use remodeling boxes, and Greenfield (empty flex),
and pull stranded wire. Fish the flex through the walls, and tie it off
to a box, and run emt from there. Then pull the wire through, and you
can reduce the number of splices.

This is what I do and suggest. Where I live, conduit and inspections
are the norm.

Andy writes:
Yes. You will be glad you did.

If you put in the main panel, meter box, and weatherhead complete with
wiring, without changing anything else, the power company will simply
switch the grid feed over, or put in a new grid feed if required.
Then, if you put a 60 amp breaker in the new panel, you can feed the
old panel with that until you get ready to do your rewire.

By doing it this way, you will have service interrupted only for
about
an hour.

I did my cabin this way, and things went smoothly. Where I live,
there
was no building inspection or permit requirement, and the only thing
that
mattered what whether I followed the electric company specifications.
They
gave me a copy of their requirements when I stopped by their local
sub station.
If you have to deal with a clipboard-carring dude with a whistle
around
his neck ( aka building inspector), it gets more tricky. I suggest you
get
an electrician to do the job for you ,in that case, since they may
REQUIRE
the job to be done by a licenses electrician. The parts cost is under
$300
from Home Depot, and it is about 3 hours work, so it shouldn't cost you

more than $1000 in mosst places......

Good Luck,
Andy (licensed elec engineer)

In article ,
says...
udarrell wrote:

Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell

100 amp service should suffice, given that your getting by with 60A and
electric appliances now.

True, but if you're going to do a rewire anyway, the extra cost of 200A
vs. 100A is pretty small, and it leaves more room for later changes.
What if he gets the tankless water heater bug a few years down the road?

The rewiring is more a function of access. If you DIY you can take your
time to fiddle with it, and do minimal damage. If your a pro, you knock
out walls to keep the labor costs down.

Or you do half and half, if you find a cooperative electrician. You
take some time to minimize damage fishing wire through, and let the pro
do the electrical work. This can be a good solution for people who
would like to DIY but don't trust their own electrical skills.
(Unfortunately, not as common as people who *shouldn't* trust their own
electrical skills but DIY anyway.)

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

John Hines wrote:

udarrell wrote:



Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell



100 amp service should suffice, given that your getting by with 60A and
electric appliances now.

The rewiring is more a function of access. If you DIY you can take your
time to fiddle with it, and do minimal damage. If your a pro, you knock
out walls to keep the labor costs down.

If you decide to DIY, use remodeling boxes, and Greenfield (empty flex),
and pull stranded wire. Fish the flex through the walls, and tie it off
to a box, and run emt from there. Then pull the wire through, and you
can reduce the number of splices.

This is what I do and suggest. Where I live, conduit and inspections
are the norm.


Wow, that was fast. I want to thank all of you for your expert advice!
I copied all your replies to a page and saved it in My Document files.
- udarrell

--
The Money Saving Free Satellite TV Gift Offer of a Life-Time. Don't miss this opportunity for you and all your friends, - they will be forever Grateful. My life's mission: saving you and your friends a lot of money in every possible way.

http://www.udarrell.com/free_dish_di...ellite_tv.html

http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

"udarrell" wrote in message
...
My 1937 two story home only has 60 amp service. The wiring to the lights
and outlet receptacles is all two wire, no ground.
Electric water heater and electric range plus two window A/Cs but it
handles all the loads okay

The Main and Range fuses are all 60 amp. I need to take the cover off
and see if the water heater and range are on the Range circuit.
If it is wired that way it would provide a total of 120 Amps through
those two circuits and 60 amp fuses.

I need to total the amps with water heater and all elements of the range
drawing current.

One large and one small surface element are burned out and I don't need
them, so did not replace them.
Would you have the entire house rewired with 200 Amp Service? - udarrell


I would do a load calculation then decide if I needed a 200 amp service.
There are a huge number of homes that are running on 100 and 150 amp
services, mine included.

Adding up the fuses is not the right way to figure load. Call your utility
and see what the highest kwh that you have used. Find a NEC book from any
recent year and read the section on residential services, it is not that
hard to figure out.

The serving utility and the AHJ will have regulations that you will have to
follow to make the change. You may have to move the service location.
Which can be a real pain in the ass.
You may be required to upgrade your bathroom, and kitchen circuits when you
do this.

go with 200 amp, it allows future expansion. wish I had done that years
ago, went from 60 to 100 now need 200.....

dont make the same mistake I did!

SQLit wrote:
SNIP

The serving utility and the AHJ will have regulations that you will have to
follow to make the change. You may have to move the service location.
Which can be a real pain in the ass.
You may be required to upgrade your bathroom, and kitchen circuits when you
do this.


Excellent advice. And those upgrades may be just the tip
of the iceberg. Don't leave out the upcoming requirements
to install line-powered smoke detectors.

OP could easily wind up dealing with a can of worms...

Jim

udarrell wrote:
My 1937 two story home only has 60 amp service. The wiring to the lights
and outlet receptacles is all two wire, no ground.
Electric water heater and electric range plus two window A/Cs but it
handles all the loads okay

The Main and Range fuses are all 60 amp. I need to take the cover off
and see if the water heater and range are on the Range circuit.
If it is wired that way it would provide a total of 120 Amps through
those two circuits and 60 amp fuses.

With "main" and "range" fuses of 60A you may have a "main and range" panel.

If it is a "main and range" the "range" fuses are a service disconnect
and protect only the range circuit (or whatever is connected). The
"main" fuses are a 2nd service disconnect that protect the rest of the
panel. You could check by pulling the range fuses and see if everything
else is still on. If it is "main and range" its rating is probably 100A
- there is likely a label somewhere, although the rating is actually
based on the service wires. Someone with experience could look at the
wires (or you could compare what they look like with #6 60A wire and #4
wire used for 100A services).

bud---

Speedy Jim wrote:
SQLit wrote:
SNIP

The serving utility and the AHJ will have regulations that you will
have to
follow to make the change. You may have to move the service location.
Which can be a real pain in the ass.
You may be required to upgrade your bathroom, and kitchen circuits
when you
do this.


Excellent advice. And those upgrades may be just the tip
of the iceberg. Don't leave out the upcoming requirements
to install line-powered smoke detectors.

OP could easily wind up dealing with a can of worms...

Jim


As part of my new heating system installation, I'm upgrading from 60
amp to 200 amp service. One of my concerns is the can-of-worms scenario
where one thing might lead to another. I met with the contractor,
electrician and electric company regarding this. They have all reviewed
the plan and assured me that if the work is done by licensed
professionals, there will be no can of worms with inspectors going
beyond the current remodeling work, and that any other possible
improvements will be suggestions, not requirements. The job is scheduled
for next Tuesday. I'll let you know how it went. Meanwhile it's good to
remember that talking to an inspector is like talking to a woman. There
is no need to tell them something unless they specifically ask about it.

Bob