Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently and
everybody here has septics, including me. If anyone could help clear my
mind, that would be great.

I have a big tank for the liquids, and another smaller tank next to it for
the solids...and then like 30 feet away from those tanks is a big sand mound
with plastic vent thingees sticking out. I also have a septic pump.

#1, i dont understand how the tanks can distinguish between the solids and
the liquids. like how does it know which tank to go into?

#2 , the big sand mound with vents... I dont quite understand the purpose
of this. Does any water or other sewage get pumped up towards the sand
mound? Or is it just used to vent the system?

any info would be great.

thanks
mike

http://people.howstuffworks.com/sewer2.htm



"mike" wrote in message
...
Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently
and everybody here has septics, including me. If anyone could help clear
my mind, that would be great.

I have a big tank for the liquids, and another smaller tank next to it for
the solids...and then like 30 feet away from those tanks is a big sand
mound with plastic vent thingees sticking out. I also have a septic pump.

#1, i dont understand how the tanks can distinguish between the solids and
the liquids. like how does it know which tank to go into?

#2 , the big sand mound with vents... I dont quite understand the purpose
of this. Does any water or other sewage get pumped up towards the sand
mound? Or is it just used to vent the system?

any info would be great.

thanks
mike

mike wrote:

....
I have a big tank for the liquids, and another smaller tank next to it for
the solids...and then like 30 feet away from those tanks is a big sand mound
with plastic vent thingees sticking out. I also have a septic pump.

#1, i dont understand how the tanks can distinguish between the solids and
the liquids. like how does it know which tank to go into?

#2 , the big sand mound with vents... I dont quite understand the purpose
of this. Does any water or other sewage get pumped up towards the sand
mound? Or is it just used to vent the system?

any info would be great.

Google is your friend...

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0744.html

According to mike :
Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently and
everybody here has septics, including me. If anyone could help clear my
mind, that would be great.

I have a big tank for the liquids, and another smaller tank next to it for
the solids...and then like 30 feet away from those tanks is a big sand mound
with plastic vent thingees sticking out. I also have a septic pump.

#1, i dont understand how the tanks can distinguish between the solids and
the liquids. like how does it know which tank to go into?

As the sewage pipe leaves the house, it first goes to the solids tank, where
the heavy bits sink to the bottom, and the light bits float. There's a pipe
from the solids tank that has a baffle that "skims" the surface to keep the
light bits in the solids tank. Then, the liquid overflow from the solids
tank goes into the liquid tank, where the liquids are kept for a while. In
both tanks bacteria are busy trying to break the stuff down.

After going through both tanks and being acted upon by bacteria, the water
is routed through a series of perforated pipes in a sand bed ("leach field")
where it's distributed into the ground. By the time the water makes
it to the leach field it's pretty clean.

Most septic tanks, at least around here, are one big tank with a series
of baffles in the middle so the "upstream" half is the solids, and the
downstream half is the liquids.

Two tanks with solids separation are required to prevent solids from
going out into the leach field and plugging the perforations.

These systems are usually a simple gravity feed (meaning the sewage plumbing
in the house is higher than the tank, and the outflow of the tank is higher
than the bed).

In your case, obviously some or all of your drain plumbing in the house
is _below_ the tank, hence you need the septic pump.

Needing venting on the bed is a little unusual, so it might not be
exactly as described above. Might be something needed to ensure
that your septic pump doesn't overpressure the bed lines and pop
them apart.

Septic tanks need periodic cleanout if they're used more than
occasionally. Mostly to remove the solid buildup, and as such,
you can often skip cleanout of the liquid tank. If you know
when it was last cleaned out, remember to get it done again in 3
years later, and ask them to tell you whether it needs to be
done more or less often.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

................................
These systems are usually a simple gravity feed (meaning the sewage
plumbing
in the house is higher than the tank, and the outflow of the tank is
higher
than the bed).

In your case, obviously some or all of your drain plumbing in the house
is _below_ the tank, hence you need the septic pump.

Whoa! Not so fast... In our area, pumps are now required on all new
installations. More on that, below.

Needing venting on the bed is a little unusual, so it might not be
exactly as described above. Might be something needed to ensure
that your septic pump doesn't overpressure the bed lines and pop
them apart.

All of our new systems have such vents, as well. Hardly unusual.

Septic tanks need periodic cleanout if they're used more than
occasionally. Mostly to remove the solid buildup, and as such,
you can often skip cleanout of the liquid tank. If you know
when it was last cleaned out, remember to get it done again in 3
years later, and ask them to tell you whether it needs to be
done more or less often.

Really? I had one pumped last year that hadn't been pumped for about 15-20
years. It was about half filled with solids and in perfect working order.
Mostly, it depends on the composition of the soil, who is using the system,
and what they allow to go into it.

Pumps I was told by an experienced installer that the new "pumped"
systems (mandated by local government) are guaranteed to fail, as they will
ultimately pump solids into the drain field. I guess that's why they also
require a designated "back-up" drainfield area to be established, where
nothing can be built. Pity the poor sucker who has a smallish lot.

This subject stinks,

Unc

In article et,
says...

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

In your case, obviously some or all of your drain plumbing in the house
is _below_ the tank, hence you need the septic pump.

Whoa! Not so fast... In our area, pumps are now required on all new
installations. More on that, below.

Needing venting on the bed is a little unusual, so it might not be
exactly as described above. Might be something needed to ensure
that your septic pump doesn't overpressure the bed lines and pop
them apart.

All of our new systems have such vents, as well. Hardly unusual.

In a traditional septic system, the leach field is lower than the
septic tank, meaning the leach pipes are buried well below grade.
Great if the soils work well for that.

But in areas with high water tables or soils that don't percolate
well, the leach field can be a built-up sand bed *above* grade.
These systems require a pump to lift the sewage from the septic tank
to the leach field. Very different from a traditional septic system,
more expensive, more maintenance, but they can work in small spaces
with poor soils.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

done more or less often.

Really? I had one pumped last year that hadn't been pumped for about 15-20
years. It was about half filled with solids and in perfect working order.
Mostly, it depends on the composition of the soil, who is using the system,
and what they allow to go into it.

Yeah, I've got about 10,000 miles on my car since the last oil/filter
change, and it's still working fine, too.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...

Yeah, I've got about 10,000 miles on my car since the last oil/filter
change, and it's still working fine, too.

FTR, the contents of the tank were previously unknown, as it was a rental
house. I know I got lucky. I was simply illustrating that "2-3 years" is
often a "magic" number, perpetuated by people who profit from hauling poop.
However, this area (Hood Canal, Olympics, WA) is all glacial till, i.e. a
natural drain, so it's not uncommon for folks to wait several trouble-free
years between pumpings.

I'll admit, it's not unlike going ten MPH over the speed limit... because
everybody else is. Works for me. Think of it as a crap-shoot, so to speak.

According to uncle k :

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

In your case, obviously some or all of your drain plumbing in the house
is _below_ the tank, hence you need the septic pump.

Whoa! Not so fast... In our area, pumps are now required on all new
installations. More on that, below.

Are you sure they don't mean on systems where the leach field is above
the tank (ie: "mound systems"?).

If you're in an area with poor soils almost always needing "mound systems"
in order to get sufficient percolation, it might lead you to believe
that up-pumps and vents are mandatory everywhere, but in actual fact,
it's specific to your local soil conditions.

I find it hard to imagine that codes would insist on septic pumps
_unless_ there was a percolation problem. Because a pumped system
has a higher likelyhood of failing sooner or later.

Septic tanks need periodic cleanout if they're used more than
occasionally. Mostly to remove the solid buildup, and as such,
you can often skip cleanout of the liquid tank. If you know
when it was last cleaned out, remember to get it done again in 3
years later, and ask them to tell you whether it needs to be
done more or less often.

Really? I had one pumped last year that hadn't been pumped for about 15-20
years. It was about half filled with solids and in perfect working order.
Mostly, it depends on the composition of the soil, who is using the system,
and what they allow to go into it.

The buildup of solids is exclusively dependent on the habits of the
homeowner, and has nothing to do with the leach field. It can't - it
hasn't gotten to the leach field yet, has it? ;-)

If you have a larger-than-necessary septic tank for your habits,
you can go longer than usual. If you use more toilet paper than
the average, shorter intervals. Etc.

While it's true that some combinations of septic system/people could
go virtually forever without pumping out at all (especially
cottage systems - my father's system hasn't been pumped in almost 40
years), most "correctly sized" residential systems with the average
family living in it full time will need pumping every 2-5 years.

The issue is that with a new house, you have no idea what the
situation is, and often no idea when it was last done. So,
you need to figure out some sort of baseline.

Not knowing when it was last done, I had two pumpouts done
three years apart, consulted with the pump-out guy, and made
an intelligent guess of my own - especially after seeing what
it looked like after we forgot and left it 5 years - if it's a
hard/dry crust that you have to beat down with a crowbar,
you've left it too long :-(

3-4 years seems to be our "sweet spot". The pumpout guy says
he has one customer who _has_ to be pumped out every year - slightly
undersized system from the beginning, it has 5 people with
very long hair living there ;-)

The issue with leaving it too long is that the solids may build
up to the point where it'll start going thru the overflow to the
second half, and potentially plug the pipe, or fill up the liquids
half too. Once that fills up, you start spewing solids
into the drainfield. _Big_ trouble.

A properly installed septic system is pretty forgiving.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
..................................

Whoa! Not so fast... In our area, pumps are now required on all new
installations. More on that, below.

Are you sure they don't mean on systems where the leach field is above
the tank (ie: "mound systems"?).

Quite sure. The affluent must be pumped into the drainfiled, even though
most of our county is glacial till. River valleys, on the other hand, don't
drain for sh**. Thus, there have been and continue to also be new mound
systems installed. It's just another broadly-stroked government solution to
a problem which doesn't exist, right here. Life goes on.

If you're in an area with poor soils almost always needing "mound systems"
in order to get sufficient percolation, it might lead you to believe
that up-pumps and vents are mandatory everywhere, but in actual fact,
it's specific to your local soil conditions.

I find it hard to imagine that codes would insist on septic pumps
_unless_ there was a percolation problem. Because a pumped system
has a higher likelyhood of failing sooner or later.

Your astonishment is duly noted, and you are correct, as far as I know. But
believe it, all new systems are pumped. It doesn't need to make sense.
Visualize a guy with a fancy computer, who has never actually touched a
septic tank lid, handing down his overly enviornmentally-correct opinions to
some yahoo who advises the yahoos who actually decide what laws shall apply,
and it should be easy to grasp.

"uncle k" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
..................................

Whoa! Not so fast... In our area, pumps are now required on all new
installations. More on that, below.

Are you sure they don't mean on systems where the leach field is above
the tank (ie: "mound systems"?).

Quite sure. The affluent must be pumped into the drainfiled, even though
most of our county is glacial till. River valleys, on the other hand,
don't drain for sh**. Thus, there have been and continue to also be new
mound systems installed. It's just another broadly-stroked government
solution to a problem which doesn't exist, right here. Life goes on.

i think affluent should be pumped into a drainfield too, but don't you mean
effluent?

If you're in an area with poor soils almost always needing "mound
systems"
in order to get sufficient percolation, it might lead you to believe
that up-pumps and vents are mandatory everywhere, but in actual fact,
it's specific to your local soil conditions.

I find it hard to imagine that codes would insist on septic pumps
_unless_ there was a percolation problem. Because a pumped system
has a higher likelyhood of failing sooner or later.

Your astonishment is duly noted, and you are correct, as far as I know.
But believe it, all new systems are pumped. It doesn't need to make
sense. Visualize a guy with a fancy computer, who has never actually
touched a septic tank lid, handing down his overly enviornmentally-correct
opinions to some yahoo who advises the yahoos who actually decide what
laws shall apply, and it should be easy to grasp.

As a person who's lived with them all my life and seen the evolution of
the sand-mount system, here's what I know about them:

Waste leaves the house to a large tank. The waste (solids and liquids)
enter at one end of the tank where the solids settle to the bottom,
floating "stuff" stays at the top, and in the middle is the liquid.
Solids break down over time in the bottom of the tank and are
reabsorbed eventually. The liquid leaves at the opposite end of the
tank, having passed around one or more baffles to keep the floaters and
solids from leaving the tank. The second tank accepts the flow from
the first tank and contains a pump. Any solids that make it past the
first tank will be given a chance to settle out here as well. When the
level gets high enough, the pump switches on and pumps the liquid out
to the sand mound. There is a distribution box that the liquid is
pumped into and splits into multiple pipes that are buried in the sand
mound called leach lines. The pipes are perforated to allow the liquid
to seep into the sand, which will filter the wastewater. Some of the
liquid evaporates, some of it seeps through the sand back into the
environment.

You should have the tanks pumped out regularly. Depending on tank size
and how much water your household uses: every 2-5 years. The solids
have a way of building up in the bottoms of the tanks over time, since
they don't really break down fast enough to keep from filling up. The
pump should be good for 10 years or so I'm told. There should be an
alarm in the system to let you know if the liquid level gets higher
than the pump float (indicating that the pump isn't working). I'm not
sure what your vents are in the sand bed, but I suspect it may be one
or more manholes for access to distribution box(es).

Here's a decent site I found once to describe different systems:
http://www.eco-nomic.com/indexsdd.htm#Mound%20Systems
Here's one with more info, including a handy link to an estimate of how
often to pump your tank: http://www.inspect-ny.com/septbook.htm

"mike" wrote in message

Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently
and everybody here has septics, including me.

I hate to be picky but you are wrong. I lived in four different houses in
PA and none has septic. None of my neighbors did either. Some people in
certain areas did, but certainly not all.

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:38:12 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"mike" wrote in message

Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently
and everybody here has septics, including me.

I hate to be picky but you are wrong. I lived in four different houses in
PA and none has septic. None of my neighbors did either. Some people in
certain areas did, but certainly not all.


I think he is using the term "here" loosely, describing his locality
rather than the whole state. Obviously not every home in PA uses
septic.

Beachcomber

"Beachcomber" wrote in message
I think he is using the term "here" loosely, describing his locality
rather than the whole state. Obviously not every home in PA uses
septic.

Someone wiser than me once said "say what you mean and mean what you say"
I've found it works well.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:E9qaf.16817$Ul3.446@trndny07...

"mike" wrote in message

Im trying to figure out how septic systems work. I moved to PA recently
and everybody here has septics, including me.

I hate to be picky but you are wrong. I lived in four different houses in
PA and none has septic. None of my neighbors did either. Some people in
certain areas did, but certainly not all.

You tell 'em, ED. That's what creeks (or cricks, around here) are
for -LOL!

In my experience, I've never seen any build up in my tank when it is pumped.
Prior to
the new '3 yr' law requirement I had it done once when I moved in, once 10
yrs later
and then, at three yr intervals. The problem which necessitates governments
making
laws to protect our water and, therefore ourselves, is the inattention to
the requirements
of maintaining a healthy septic tank. All that said, pumping is a good
idea.

"C & M" wrote in message

You tell 'em, ED. That's what creeks (or cricks, around here) are
for -LOL!

Well he did get me thinking that I've been peeing in the wrong hole all
these years.