New "Fedral Gummint" AC SEER minimum, etc

Hi,

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006. Also implied
or stated the following:

a.) New 13+ SEER units cost lots more.
b.) Are lots bigger (condensing unit).
c.) Folks should consider buying the old stuff now,
to avoid higher cost and "Gawd Knows What Else".
Implies a rush on the old stuff.

Is this accurate info?

I have been out of the AC equipment loop for a
long time:

1.) What refrigerants are used in the old stuff?
2.) What refrigerants are used in the new stuff?

What are the HVAC vendors doing? Pushing the new for
the additional revenue? Or could it be they are
promoting scare tactics to promote sales of the
old stuff?

Any/all discussion of the old vs new stuff would be
much appreciated. "Los Federales" have made a hideous
mess of this kind of thing before, don't know why
they wouldn't again.

Thanks,
Puddin'

--
************************************************** ****
*** Puddin' Man PuddingDotMan at GmailDotCom ***
************************************************** ****;

"Puddin' Man" wrote

New "Fedral Gummint" AC SEER minimum, etc

Hi,

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006. Also implied
or stated the following:

a.) New 13+ SEER units cost lots more.

More, but not "lots more". Anytime you purchase something that will SAVE you
money, it will COST you money.

b.) Are lots bigger (condensing unit).

Depends on the manufacturer. Most will be bigger. Usually taller (as opposed
to wider) with the idea that more surface area on the coil means more
efficient operation.

c.) Folks should consider buying the old stuff now,
to avoid higher cost and "Gawd Knows What Else".
Implies a rush on the old stuff.

It's not that bad and I wouldn't panic-buy, though I know a couple
commercial customers (a church and a school) that are rushing out to buy
"new" equipment before the price goes up.


Is this accurate info?

See above. The other thing: There are many out there that aren't convinced
that it will go to 13. Many are fighting for 12 to be the minimum and many
don't want it raised at all. I think it will go to 13.


I have been out of the AC equipment loop for a
long time:

1.) What refrigerants are used in the old stuff?

Depends on HOW old you are talking about, but the majority of them use R-22.

2.) What refrigerants are used in the new stuff?

R-410A


What are the HVAC vendors doing?

As David Byrne once said: "Same as it ever was...."

Pushing the new for the additional revenue?

Most manufacturers are selling either unit at the same price.

Or could it be they are
promoting scare tactics to promote sales of the
old stuff?

They may lower the price on the R-22 units to make the move faster, but
don't hold your breath.


Any/all discussion of the old vs new stuff would be
much appreciated. "Los Federales" have made a hideous
mess of this kind of thing before, don't know why
they wouldn't again.

I think R-410A is here to stay. Most were apprehensive at first, but they
seemed to be doing O.K. I think the argument of "Well, it runs at a higher
pressure so you are going to have more leaks!" is unfounded.


Just my 2 cents, but wadda eye nose........

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
New "Fedral Gummint" AC SEER minimum, etc

Hi,

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006. Also implied
or stated the following:

a.) New 13+ SEER units cost lots more.

Current model/new anything cost more than last years model.

b.) Are lots bigger (condensing unit).
Probably

c.) Folks should consider buying the old stuff now,
to avoid higher cost and "Gawd Knows What Else".
Implies a rush on the old stuff.

Do you need an unit. Then contact some licensed contractors and see what it
will cost. If not "forget about it "
http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp

Seer is a yearly number. Getting a high seer for an area that does not
require a lot of cooling would be a mistake.



Is this accurate info?

Media hype, slow news day again


I have been out of the AC equipment loop for a
long time:

1.) What refrigerants are used in the old stuff?
answered

2.) What refrigerants are used in the new stuff?
answered

What are the HVAC vendors doing?
One of the largest manufactures Goodman/Amana lobbied HARD against the
measure.
Buying a older compressor will be easy for quite a while. The only change is
in NEW SYSTEMS.
The compressor plants are at full production making the older less effecient
compressors. The older stuff will be around for a LONG TIME.


Pushing the new for
the additional revenue? Or could it be they are
promoting scare tactics to promote sales of the
old stuff?

Puddin' Man wrote:

b.) Are lots bigger (condensing unit).

I replaced a 30 year old unit with 15ser Lennox last fall,
and as someone stated, it is taller, and fits on like a 2x2 pad instead
of the old 2x4 foot pad.

Any/all discussion of the old vs new stuff would be
much appreciated. "Los Federales" have made a hideous
mess of this kind of thing before, don't know why
they wouldn't again.

The new stuff in general is much improved, and more efficient. Generally
quieter as well. Consider also a new furnace. if that is part of your
setup.

And as always, a good installation is key, with someone who can service
the unit in the future.

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006.

Darn government; trying to force you to save money!
Buy a 10; show them you won't be pushed around.

Next thing you know they will try to make you buy a car with better mileage.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006.

Darn government; trying to force you to save money!
Buy a 10; show them you won't be pushed around.

Next thing you know they will try to make you buy a car with better
mileage.

Yeah!!

Them summ bitches!!!!

Maybe in your case it's not cost effective to go with higher efficiency..
However remember most peak power is generated with natural gas and in the
southwest a lot power is generated with natural gas. And AC is the bigger
driver for peak power needs in the summer. Even though it is not talked
about very much in many ways the US's natural gas situation is more perilous
than oil and the prices are reflecting it.

No one in power has had the guts to face reality. We could have built many
nuclear plants in the 90's instead of natural gas. We could have built port
facilities in the last five years to import LNG, either of which would have
kept gas prices down.

Just like folks in New Orleans ignoring that flooding was a certainty with a
large hurricane, no one in power would bite the bullet and either build
higher levees or start encouraging people to move out.

Sorry for ranting folks but once and awhile just can't resist.


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
New "Fedral Gummint" AC SEER minimum, etc

Hi,

There was a feature on tv news here last nite, said that
the federal minimum on SEER ratings for AC units would
increase from 10 to 13 as of Jan. 1, 2006. Also implied
or stated the following:

a.) New 13+ SEER units cost lots more.
b.) Are lots bigger (condensing unit).
c.) Folks should consider buying the old stuff now,
to avoid higher cost and "Gawd Knows What Else".
Implies a rush on the old stuff.

Is this accurate info?

I have been out of the AC equipment loop for a
long time:

1.) What refrigerants are used in the old stuff?
2.) What refrigerants are used in the new stuff?

What are the HVAC vendors doing? Pushing the new for
the additional revenue? Or could it be they are
promoting scare tactics to promote sales of the
old stuff?

Any/all discussion of the old vs new stuff would be
much appreciated. "Los Federales" have made a hideous
mess of this kind of thing before, don't know why
they wouldn't again.

Thanks,
Puddin'

--
************************************************** ****
*** Puddin' Man PuddingDotMan at GmailDotCom ***
************************************************** ****;

The new 13 SEER is the law. It is one of the last things Clinton got
before he left office. We have known about it for a long time. R-22
systems will still be made till 2010. R-22 refrigerant for service
till 2020. There will be used,stored,reclaimed R-22 long after that
for service. Some of the new units will be r-22, mostly 13 &14 SEER.
Most of the 15 SEER & up will be R-410a. Prices will vary by
manufacturer. There will be cheaper builder models and more expensive
stuff as well. I would not change a unit for the hell of it, nutty way
to do business.

Stretch

"Stretch" wrote in message
ups.com...
The new 13 SEER is the law. It is one of the last things Clinton got
before he left office. We have known about it for a long time. R-22
systems will still be made till 2010. R-22 refrigerant for service
till 2020. There will be used,stored,reclaimed R-22 long after that
for service. Some of the new units will be r-22, mostly 13 &14 SEER.
Most of the 15 SEER & up will be R-410a. Prices will vary by
manufacturer. There will be cheaper builder models and more expensive
stuff as well. I would not change a unit for the hell of it, nutty way
to do business.

American Standard (and Trane....same diff) claim they will not manufacture
any R-22 units after the first of the year.

Not sure if that is true, but that is what the rep told me.....