A contractor had to put in a sub-panel in my home because the main box
was full. I have a few questions on what he did that I hope some
experienced electricians can answer.

The new sub-panel is located immediately (about 4") below the main
panel and connected to it with metal conduit. To feed the sub-panel,
two existing circuits were removed (and replaced by a dual-pole
breaker) and those existing circuits were extended to breakers in the
sub-panel.

My questions:

1 - Do the neutral and ground need to be separated in this sub-panel?
He bonded them. Most info in the NEC talks about sub-panels in
separate buildings or at remote locations. I don't know if the
situation changes if the sub-panel is located so closely to the main
panel.

2 - The hot wires for the moved circuits were extended into the
sub-panel. Do the neutral and ground wires need to be extended also?
He left them in the main panel and only extended the hot wire.

3 - Given that 2 20A furnace branch circuits (A/C operation and
_electric_ heat) were what was moved, and two additional 20A (patio and
landscape lighting & power) branch circuits added, what is a suitable
breaker to feed the sub-panel? He put in a 25A and wired the sub-panel
with #10 wire, which seems a bit light considering the 2 furnace
(heater) circuits.

Thank you for any clarification on these issues.

-W

wrote in message
oups.com...
A contractor had to put in a sub-panel in my home because the main box
was full. I have a few questions on what he did that I hope some
experienced electricians can answer.

The new sub-panel is located immediately (about 4") below the main
panel and connected to it with metal conduit. To feed the sub-panel,
two existing circuits were removed (and replaced by a dual-pole
breaker) and those existing circuits were extended to breakers in the
sub-panel.

My questions:

1 - Do the neutral and ground need to be separated in this sub-panel?
He bonded them. Most info in the NEC talks about sub-panels in
separate buildings or at remote locations. I don't know if the
situation changes if the sub-panel is located so closely to the main
panel.

Absolutely not bonded together in a sub panel. This guy is an electrician,
NOT

Neutral should be isolated from ground, fix this as soon as possible. Not
that your house will burn down it is just not the right way to do it.



2 - The hot wires for the moved circuits were extended into the
sub-panel. Do the neutral and ground wires need to be extended also?
He left them in the main panel and only extended the hot wire.

It is a good idea. A craftsman would do it.

3 - Given that 2 20A furnace branch circuits (A/C operation and
_electric_ heat) were what was moved, and two additional 20A (patio and
landscape lighting & power) branch circuits added, what is a suitable
breaker to feed the sub-panel? He put in a 25A and wired the sub-panel
with #10 wire, which seems a bit light considering the 2 furnace
(heater) circuits.

Need to do a load calcualation on the service then on the additional loads.
Not what size the breaker is what the acutal load is. 25 amp breaker not
what I would have used (30).
Figuring the heaters are on each phase (balanced loading) and the patio
circuits are the same then it will work just fine. Odds are when the patio
is under a load the heaters will not be used.
What did you pay for?


Thank you for any clarification on these issues.

-W

3 - Given that 2 20A furnace branch circuits (A/C operation and
_electric_ heat) were what was moved, and two additional 20A (patio and
landscape lighting & power) branch circuits added, what is a suitable
breaker to feed the sub-panel? He put in a 25A and wired the sub-panel
with #10 wire, which seems a bit light considering the 2 furnace
(heater) circuits.

Need to do a load calcualation on the service then on the additional loads.
Not what size the breaker is what the acutal load is. 25 amp breaker not
what I would have used (30).
Figuring the heaters are on each phase (balanced loading) and the patio
circuits are the same then it will work just fine.


Yes, that is the case; I specifically made sure of it when I went into
the box.


Odds are when the patio
is under a load the heaters will not be used.


Not really true -- we're in Texas, so we may be running the heaters in
the house and still be using the patio, fan, landscape lighting, and
fountain outside.


What did you pay for?

A learning experience it seems. Originally I did not want to mess
around with the main panel so I hired this guy who was recommended by
the contractor doing the rest of the landscaping work, but I was so
bothered by the final electrical work that I redid almost all of it.

I've not mentioned how he used white wires for hot leads (without
marking them in any way), how he installed the fan in the arbor without
a GFCI and without the wet location kit supplied in the box (both which
I've since added, and which it clearly calls for), how he fed the wire
to the fan through a whole drilled straight up through the mounting
board on the arbor (allowing rain to run right down the wire into the
fan), how he ran the hot from one circuit but the neutrals from two
different circuits through the load side of the one GFCI he did
install, how he ran exposed standard household cable across the arbor
for the fan rather than wet and sun rated cable, nor how he used a
mixture of 4 hole metal and 2 hole plastic weatherproof boxes which
looked horrible and which I've all replaced with the same plastic
weatherproof boxes. I've since fixed all of this.

In the end, I was not explicit enough with what I needed installed,
trusting him to know what he was doing and to care enough to do the
best job, neither of which it seems were really the case,
unfortunately.

Thanks for answering my questions and verifying my concerns.

-W

wrote:
A contractor had to put in a sub-panel in my home because the main box
was full. I have a few questions on what he did that I hope some
experienced electricians can answer.

The new sub-panel is located immediately (about 4") below the main
panel and connected to it with metal conduit. To feed the sub-panel,
two existing circuits were removed (and replaced by a dual-pole
breaker) and those existing circuits were extended to breakers in the
sub-panel.

My questions:

1 - Do the neutral and ground need to be separated in this sub-panel?
He bonded them. Most info in the NEC talks about sub-panels in
separate buildings or at remote locations. I don't know if the
situation changes if the sub-panel is located so closely to the main
panel.

2 - The hot wires for the moved circuits were extended into the
sub-panel. Do the neutral and ground wires need to be extended also?
He left them in the main panel and only extended the hot wire.


#1 and #2 are both wrong, but they are also perfectly safe in my opinion
(assuming that conduit connecting the 2 boxes is a rigid or IMC conduit
and has threaded locknuts.) The new box is supposed be wired as a
subpanel. I'm not sure that I would change it though. What did the
electrical inspector say?

3 - Given that 2 20A furnace branch circuits (A/C operation and
_electric_ heat) were what was moved, and two additional 20A (patio and
landscape lighting & power) branch circuits added, what is a suitable
breaker to feed the sub-panel? He put in a 25A and wired the sub-panel
with #10 wire, which seems a bit light considering the 2 furnace
(heater) circuits.

I would have used #6 copper wire and a 50A or 60A breaker. I wonder
where he found a 25A breaker instead of a 30.

-Bob

1 - Do the neutral and ground need to be separated in this sub-panel?
...

2 - The hot wires for the moved circuits were extended into the
sub-panel. Do the neutral and ground wires need to be extended also? ...

#1 and #2 are both wrong, but they are also perfectly safe in my opinion
(assuming that conduit connecting the 2 boxes is a rigid or IMC conduit
and has threaded locknuts.)


Rigid metal conduit with threaded locknuts.


The new box is supposed be wired as a
subpanel. I'm not sure that I would change it though. What did the
electrical inspector say?

I was told by the general contractor as well as this electrical
contractor that no electrical inspection was necessary because the
electrician is a state-licensed journeyman.

wrote:

1 - Do the neutral and ground need to be separated in this sub-panel?
...

2 - The hot wires for the moved circuits were extended into the
sub-panel. Do the neutral and ground wires need to be extended also? ...

#1 and #2 are both wrong, but they are also perfectly safe in my opinion
(assuming that conduit connecting the 2 boxes is a rigid or IMC conduit
and has threaded locknuts.)



Rigid metal conduit with threaded locknuts.



The new box is supposed be wired as a
subpanel. I'm not sure that I would change it though. What did the
electrical inspector say?


I was told by the general contractor as well as this electrical
contractor that no electrical inspection was necessary because the
electrician is a state-licensed journeyman.



Of course the contractor is going to tell you that. They don't want
anyone inspecting their work.

The panel wasn't that bad, but the other stuff you mentioned is scary.
It's probably too late now because you've fixed everything and there's
no evidence left, but I'd file a complaint and try to get the
"electrician's" alleged license suspended.

Bob