Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just bought a
cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.

The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a lot of
soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into the exhaust
pipe, and I didn't notice it.

When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.

Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed space. I
know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing in the
instructions mentioned outside venting.

Steve

Mine isn't vented; I don't recall the instructions mentioning it.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
Mine isn't vented; I don't recall the instructions mentioning it.


As well with my instructions. NO mention of venting. A Google check with a
propane refrigerator manufacturer's FAQs says "if it is functioning
properly", it needs no venting.

I know that carbon monoxide is bad stuff, so, just wanted to ask people
about their experiences.

Steve

Mine isn't vented; I don't recall the instructions mentioning it.


As well with my instructions. NO mention of venting. A Google check with
a propane refrigerator manufacturer's FAQs says "if it is functioning
properly", it needs no venting.

I know that carbon monoxide is bad stuff, so, just wanted to ask people
about their experiences.

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators. However, if you feel
uncomfortable about it not being vented. I'd vent it. The value of peace of
mind might exceed the cost of your worry.
A good friend of mine from college lost a cousin due to a gas leak. He
slept through the ordeal. I think it was propane he was using somewhere in
his house. Sorry, don't remember the specifics.

I know that carbon monoxide is bad stuff, so, just wanted to ask people
about their experiences.

Steve


Get a carbon monoxide detector and don't use any gas appliance unless
the detector is working. Not worth risking a life over a $30 gadget.

The other Steve B..

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators.

It uses a tiny little flame. I get a month on a 20lb tank.

"Steve B." wrote in message
...


I know that carbon monoxide is bad stuff, so, just wanted to ask people
about their experiences.

Steve


Get a carbon monoxide detector and don't use any gas appliance unless
the detector is working. Not worth risking a life over a $30 gadget.

The other Steve B..

Already got the top of the line Kidde. Has the digital readout, and the
memory button. If anyone is considering buying a CO detector, BUY THE ONE
WITH THE READOUT AND THE MEMORY.

The other kind goes off when the levels are at dangerously high levels. The
display units tell you what the reading is RIGHT NOW, and with a push of a
button, tell you what the highest reading is from the last time you reset.

No good if it goes off after you are unconscious ..................

Steve

On 09/06/05 09:54 pm Charlie S. tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia
as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just
as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 09/06/05 09:54 pm Charlie S. tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural area
of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia as the
refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just as
the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

No, completely different principle.

SteveB wrote:
Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just bought a
cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.

The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a lot of
soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into the exhaust
pipe, and I didn't notice it.

When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.

Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed space. I
know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing in the
instructions mentioned outside venting.

Steve



Propane (actually ammonia cycle) refrigerators are
common on RV's, so check RV sites on the internet.
Anything with a flame needs a vent. A standard
feature is to have the burner in a separate space
from the actual cold space. Built in that way or
the unit is on rollers and just backs into a space
that is vented to the outside. Or, the unit just
sits in a highly vented space such as a screened
porch.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
..

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural area
of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia as the
refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just as
the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does, cools,
hence, cooling. I know the large ice producing companies around the turn of
the century were ammonia powered. NO moving parts.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:5ftTe.74191$DW1.54455@fed1read06...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia as
the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just
as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does, cools,
hence, cooling.

Oh for heaven's sake! When things condense they give off heat; so why would
it cool by condensing?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:5ftTe.74191$DW1.54455@fed1read06...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia
as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just
as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does, cools,
hence, cooling.

Oh for heaven's sake! When things condense they give off heat; so why
would it cool by condensing?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm


I don't know. If you are so smart, why don't you post the answer instead of
just coming up with contentious posts? Explain it to us stupid unwashed
rabble.

An ammonia refrigerator has a flame and ammonia. I don't really understand
how it works, only that it does. A flame would seem to boil a liquid, and a
condensing coil would seem to condense that vapor. Just an observation by
this untrained person.

If things give off heat when they condense, why isn't rain hot? Just a
question from this stupid person who obviously doesn't understand and know
as much as you.

Steve

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just bought a
cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.

The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a lot
of soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into the
exhaust pipe, and I didn't notice it.

When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.

Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed space.
I know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing in
the instructions mentioned outside venting.

Steve

Propane (actually ammonia cycle) refrigerators are common on RV's, so
check RV sites on the internet. Anything with a flame needs a vent. A
standard feature is to have the burner in a separate space from the
actual cold space. Built in that way or the unit is on rollers and just
backs into a space that is vented to the outside. Or, the unit just sits
in a highly vented space such as a screened porch.

I was puzzled when I looked at the manual, and there was no mention of
venting. Venting would not really be a problem, just some Rube Goldberg (am
I dating myself?) plumbing of flues. I would have to drill a rather large
hole through six inches of solid wood exterior wall, but really, not a big
job to vent the thing.

Just seeking understanding before I go hacking and cutting.

Steve

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 09:53:02p, SteveB wrote in alt.home.repair:


"Toller" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:5ftTe.74191$DW1.54455@fed1read06...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
... .

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used
ammonia as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant
just as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does,
cools, hence, cooling.

Oh for heaven's sake! When things condense they give off heat; so why
would it cool by condensing?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm


I don't know. If you are so smart, why don't you post the answer
instead of just coming up with contentious posts? Explain it to us
stupid unwashed rabble.

An ammonia refrigerator has a flame and ammonia. I don't really
understand how it works, only that it does. A flame would seem to boil
a liquid, and a condensing coil would seem to condense that vapor. Just
an observation by this untrained person.

If things give off heat when they condense, why isn't rain hot? Just a
question from this stupid person who obviously doesn't understand and
know as much as you.

Steve

Why not learn how instead of remaining ignorant?

http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm

http://www.thenaturalhome.com/gasappliances.htm

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 09:53:02p, SteveB wrote in alt.home.repair:


"Toller" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:5ftTe.74191$DW1.54455@fed1read06...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
... .

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used
ammonia as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant
just as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does,
cools, hence, cooling.

Oh for heaven's sake! When things condense they give off heat; so why
would it cool by condensing?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm


I don't know. If you are so smart, why don't you post the answer
instead of just coming up with contentious posts? Explain it to us
stupid unwashed rabble.

An ammonia refrigerator has a flame and ammonia. I don't really
understand how it works, only that it does. A flame would seem to boil
a liquid, and a condensing coil would seem to condense that vapor. Just
an observation by this untrained person.

If things give off heat when they condense, why isn't rain hot? Just a
question from this stupid person who obviously doesn't understand and
know as much as you.

Steve

Probably more than you wanted to know:

http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html

As a side note, some of the earliest commercial air conditioning systems
used ammonia, the heat usually being supplied by a natural gas burner.
These systems pre-dated sykstems uning Freon. These were generally rather
large systems, installed in office buildings and theaters.

When I was a kid, my dad worked in an office building cooled by such a
system. In the area of the actual equipment in the basement, there were
often small leaks and one could faintly smell the ammonia.

The earliest refrigerators also used ammonia (Freon hadn't been invented
yet). Many were fueled by natural gas. However, kerosene and butane (pre-
dating propane) adaptations were also common in rural areas without
electric power.

Even today, especially in Amish areas and other rural areas without
electricity, kerosene refrigerators are used by many people.

These systems are virtually silent, although you might occasionally here a
sound similar to a percolator. There is no motor or compressor. They also
do a very good job of cooling and freezing.

Prices are high, most likely, because of the relatively low production
compared to traditional refrigerators.

HTH

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:ymuTe.74196$DW1.67852@fed1read06...

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:5ftTe.74191$DW1.54455@fed1read06...

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia
as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just
as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce

IIRC, the flame boils the ammonia, it condenses, and as it does, cools,
hence, cooling.

Oh for heaven's sake! When things condense they give off heat; so why
would it cool by condensing?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm


I don't know. If you are so smart, why don't you post the answer instead
of just coming up with contentious posts? Explain it to us stupid
unwashed rabble.

I shouldn't have to explain it. Some reason you can't read the perfectly
clear link I provided you (for those of you too stupid to know how to use
google.)

An ammonia refrigerator has a flame and ammonia. I don't really
understand how it works, only that it does. A flame would seem to boil a
liquid, and a condensing coil would seem to condense that vapor.

Okay, you seem to understand it; when you add heat to ammonia, it changes
from a liquid to a gas. When you condense it, it gives off that very same
heat. How could giving off heat cool a refrigerator? Wouldn't it heat the
refrigerator? (Hint; is the compressor of your A/C the inside or outside
unit.)

If you are a troll, you are a very good one. If you are not a troll, you
have to try thinking.

"Toller" wrote

If you are a troll, you are a very good one. If you are not a troll, you
have to try thinking.


I just prefer when people explain things plainly and briefly. I am one year
postaccident on a traumatic brain injury, and my thinking is not what it
used to be.

Ergo, I ask questions, and hope that the reader can provide brief plain
answers instead of sending one to a huge website where the needed data is
buried in layers of advertisements. This was not the case in your citing.
The site you sent me to explained it right out front. Not so in many cases.
And then, there is the mail one gets when visiting random Google hits.

Plain questions only require plain answers. Not contentious argumentative
superiority complex rhetoric.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:iiCTe.74229$DW1.56563@fed1read06...

"Toller" wrote

If you are a troll, you are a very good one. If you are not a troll, you
have to try thinking.


I just prefer when people explain things plainly and briefly. I am one
year postaccident on a traumatic brain injury, and my thinking is not what
it used to be.

Ergo, I ask questions, and hope that the reader can provide brief plain
answers instead of sending one to a huge website where the needed data is
buried in layers of advertisements. This was not the case in your citing.
The site you sent me to explained it right out front. Not so in many
cases. And then, there is the mail one gets when visiting random Google
hits.

Plain questions only require plain answers. Not contentious argumentative
superiority complex rhetoric.

Gosh, don't I feel 2" tall!
Oh, but wait a moment. If my link was appropriate, why are you hassling me?
You just couldn't bother to follow it, and wanted me to repeat it all in a
posting?
No, I feel 6' again.

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YouTe.74197$DW1.73091@fed1read06...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just bought
a
cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.

The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a lot
of soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into the
exhaust pipe, and I didn't notice it.

When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.

Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed
space.
I know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing
in
the instructions mentioned outside venting.

Steve

Propane (actually ammonia cycle) refrigerators are common on RV's, so
check RV sites on the internet. Anything with a flame needs a vent. A
standard feature is to have the burner in a separate space from the
actual cold space. Built in that way or the unit is on rollers and
just
backs into a space that is vented to the outside. Or, the unit just
sits
in a highly vented space such as a screened porch.

I was puzzled when I looked at the manual, and there was no mention of
venting. Venting would not really be a problem, just some Rube Goldberg
(am
I dating myself?) plumbing of flues. I would have to drill a rather large
hole through six inches of solid wood exterior wall, but really, not a big
job to vent the thing.

Just seeking understanding before I go hacking and cutting.

Steve



My understanding of propane (absorption) refrigerators is that they contain
a mixture of ammonia and water. The mixture is heated and the ammonia
vaporizes. As the vaporization occurs the result is expanding gas.
Expanding gases absorb heat, hence the name. This is easily demonstrated by
using any spray can or letting the air out of a tire or tank of compressed
gas/air. You can feel the can/tank get colder. If you let the air out of a
SCUBA tank ice will form on the valve.

I would not use one without venting. Although there is a small flame there
will still be some CO present. Besides that you will get some soot. There
is probably a baffle inside the flue or chimney that needs to be able to
move freely. Soot can also build up inside the chimney and it should be
cleaned occasionally, perhaps once a year. It is also VERY important that
the coils be cleaned and free of dust and goop. The refrigerator will cool
much more effeciently with clean coils. Also keep your burner clean and
make sure it has a good-looking blue flame. If it is all clean and working
properly you will have less soot and probably less CO.

One of the beauties of the RV type units is that they also contain heating
coils that operate from 12 VDC or 120VAC or both. If you run out of propane
you can hook it up temporarily to a battery or to an AC supply. The older
ones (probably built before the 90's) needed no connections other than
propane but the newer ones require a 12VDC source to operate. I think the
older ones are better.

"Ulysses" wrote in message

I would not use one without venting. Although there is a small flame
there
will still be some CO present. Besides that you will get some soot.
There
is probably a baffle inside the flue or chimney that needs to be able to
move freely. Soot can also build up inside the chimney and it should be
cleaned occasionally, perhaps once a year.


Propane gas ranges and ovens have been used in homes for decades and have no
venting and no soot buildup.

In my house, the CO detector is about 10 feet down the hallway from the
kitchen. With 4 burners and the oven going, it gets no reading from the
range. I don't see a problem.

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:YouTe.74197$DW1.73091@fed1read06...

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
Do propane refrigerators need to be vented outside? I have just
bought
a
cabin with a Consul 17 cubic foot fridge/freezer.

The burner needed cleaning, as it smelled very very rich. It had a
lot
of soot. When I put it back together, the diffuser fell down into
the
exhaust pipe, and I didn't notice it.

When it started smelling again, I checked it, and cleaned it again.

Tell me of your experiences with propane appliances in an enclosed
space.
I know they can be lethal, but this has a very small burner. Nothing
in
the instructions mentioned outside venting.

Steve

Propane (actually ammonia cycle) refrigerators are common on RV's, so
check RV sites on the internet. Anything with a flame needs a vent. A
standard feature is to have the burner in a separate space from the
actual cold space. Built in that way or the unit is on rollers and
just
backs into a space that is vented to the outside. Or, the unit just
sits
in a highly vented space such as a screened porch.

I was puzzled when I looked at the manual, and there was no mention of
venting. Venting would not really be a problem, just some Rube Goldberg
(am
I dating myself?) plumbing of flues. I would have to drill a rather
large
hole through six inches of solid wood exterior wall, but really, not a
big
job to vent the thing.

Just seeking understanding before I go hacking and cutting.

Steve



My understanding of propane (absorption) refrigerators is that they
contain
a mixture of ammonia and water. The mixture is heated and the ammonia
vaporizes. As the vaporization occurs the result is expanding gas.
Expanding gases absorb heat, hence the name. This is easily demonstrated
by
using any spray can or letting the air out of a tire or tank of compressed
gas/air. You can feel the can/tank get colder. If you let the air out of
a
SCUBA tank ice will form on the valve.

I would not use one without venting. Although there is a small flame
there
will still be some CO present. Besides that you will get some soot.
There
is probably a baffle inside the flue or chimney that needs to be able to
move freely. Soot can also build up inside the chimney and it should be
cleaned occasionally, perhaps once a year. It is also VERY important that
the coils be cleaned and free of dust and goop. The refrigerator will
cool
much more effeciently with clean coils. Also keep your burner clean and
make sure it has a good-looking blue flame. If it is all clean and
working
properly you will have less soot and probably less CO.

One of the beauties of the RV type units is that they also contain heating
coils that operate from 12 VDC or 120VAC or both. If you run out of
propane
you can hook it up temporarily to a battery or to an AC supply. The older
ones (probably built before the 90's) needed no connections other than
propane but the newer ones require a 12VDC source to operate. I think the
older ones are better.



I forgot to mention that it must be level. You can get an omnidirectional
bubble level from an RV store for about a dollar or so. Put it inside the
(clean, frost-free) freezer compartment and check it.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 09/06/05 09:54 pm Charlie S. tossed the following ingredients into
the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators.


I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural
area of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia
as the refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just
as the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

Perce


Look up "absorbtion cycle" (I never really understood this one when I
took Thermodynamics in college.) They typically run on ammonia and
water, or water and litium bromide.

-Bob

On 09/06/05 11:14 pm Toller tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Don't know a thing about propane refrigerators.

I'm assuming that they work on a similar principle to the kerosene
refrigerators I recall from a few decades back; a neighbor in a rural area
of UK with no electric supply had one. Some of those used ammonia as the
refrigerant, but maybe the propane ones now use Freon.

IIRC, the heat of the flame raises the pressure of the refrigerant just as
the compressor does in an electric refrigerator.

No, completely different principle.

Yes, I see that you are correct and that I apparently did not pay
sufficient attention in physics class all those years ago -- or, of
course, that my memory is . . .

Now what was I saying? :-)

Perce

TRY THIS LINK

http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html

Stretch

[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:09:48 -0700, "Ulysses"
wrote:


My understanding of propane (absorption) refrigerators is that they contain
a mixture of ammonia and water. The mixture is heated and the ammonia
vaporizes. As the vaporization occurs the result is expanding gas.
Expanding gases absorb heat, hence the name. This is easily demonstrated by
using any spray can or letting the air out of a tire or tank of compressed
gas/air. You can feel the can/tank get colder. If you let the air out of a
SCUBA tank ice will form on the valve.

A level of abstraction may help. All heat pumping devices use some form of
potential energy to transport thermal energy from or to a desired place.

Folks accept that building a fire can be used to refrigerate! Light a fire
at a coal power plant, make steam, then electricity, send it to a home and
use it to operate a refrigerator. The source of the needed energy is a
fire at a coal burning power plant!

Take out a few steps and you have fire to cold in one box!

A compressor is a pump. Gas refrigerators have a pump! The percolator is a
pump, it creates enough pressure differences and mechanical "refrigerant"
transport to use heat of vaporization just as an electric driven
refrigerator does.

The combination of water, ammonia highly pressurized with hydrogen set the
stage to do it all in one box.

gerry

--

Personal home page - http://gogood.com

gerry misspelled in my email address to confuse robots

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:iiCTe.74229$DW1.56563@fed1read06...

"Toller" wrote

If you are a troll, you are a very good one. If you are not a troll, you
have to try thinking.


I just prefer when people explain things plainly and briefly. I am one year
postaccident on a traumatic brain injury, and my thinking is not what it used
to be.

Ergo, I ask questions, and hope that the reader can provide brief plain
answers instead of sending one to a huge website where the needed data is
buried in layers of advertisements. This was not the case in your citing.
The site you sent me to explained it right out front. Not so in many cases.
And then, there is the mail one gets when visiting random Google hits.

Plain questions only require plain answers. Not contentious argumentative
superiority complex rhetoric.

Gosh, don't I feel 2" tall!
Oh, but wait a moment. If my link was appropriate, why are you hassling me?
You just couldn't bother to follow it, and wanted me to repeat it all in a
posting?
No, I feel 6' again.

This is Turtle.

Toller , It's hard to be humble when your perfect in everyway !

TURTLE

Plain questions only require plain answers. Not contentious argumentative
superiority complex rhetoric.

Steve

This is Turtle.

Stretch has here a very good sight to look the system up.

TURTLE