We just received a new stackable washer and dryer. I wanted to use a 4
prong plug and the installer installed a 4 prong pigtail in the dryer. I
then bought a new receptacle which I found is 2 1/4" wide to fit in a 2"
wide box. Is there a more narrow receptacle available? Or what is an
easy way to remove the existing box? It is plastic. I have a blue old
work box with the fold out tabs but I think it would be too flimsy for
the 240V plug. Thank you

"Nick C Topolos" wrote in message
...
We just received a new stackable washer and dryer. I wanted to use a 4
prong plug and the installer installed a 4 prong pigtail in the dryer. I
then bought a new receptacle which I found is 2 1/4" wide to fit in a 2"
wide box.

There are a plethora of plastic boxes, single gang, double gang and of
course the kind that accepts mud rings. If your box accepts mud rings then
use a razor knife and cut the drywall and replace the ring with a 2 gang.

I would not use a cutin box for a dryer.

Are you sure that you even have 4 wires in the box? Older homes would not
have 4 wires and if it does then it should have had a 4 wire recpt
installed.

Replacing the whole run with a 4 wire cable may not be in your pocket book.
Might be time to consider changing the cord on the dryer to a 3 wire cord
and use what you have.


Is there a more narrow receptacle available? Or what is an
easy way to remove the existing box? It is plastic. I have a blue old
work box with the fold out tabs but I think it would be too flimsy for
the 240V plug. Thank you

Is it a 30 amp dryer outlet you're trying to install or did you get a 50 amp
range outlet? A 30 amp should fit in a 2" wide box. The existing box is
probably nailed to the side of a stud. If you need to change it, you can cut
the sheet rock open, pry it off and nail on a larger box



"Nick C Topolos" wrote in message
...
We just received a new stackable washer and dryer. I wanted to use a 4
prong plug and the installer installed a 4 prong pigtail in the dryer. I
then bought a new receptacle which I found is 2 1/4" wide to fit in a 2"
wide box. Is there a more narrow receptacle available? Or what is an easy
way to remove the existing box? It is plastic. I have a blue old work box
with the fold out tabs but I think it would be too flimsy for the 240V
plug. Thank you

Nick C Topolos wrote:
We just received a new stackable washer and dryer. I wanted to use a 4
prong plug and the installer installed a 4 prong pigtail in the dryer. I
then bought a new receptacle which I found is 2 1/4" wide to fit in a 2"
wide box. Is there a more narrow receptacle available? Or what is an
easy way to remove the existing box? It is plastic. I have a blue old
work box with the fold out tabs but I think it would be too flimsy for
the 240V plug. Thank you


Greetings Nick,

Why do you want a four prong plug? Just because?

If you have a three prong outlet you probably don't have the right wire
running to the box for a four prong plug. Simply put a three prong
plug on the dryer and move on with your life.

Hope this helps,
William

Greetings Nick,

Why do you want a four prong plug? Just because?

If you have a three prong outlet you probably don't have the right wire
running to the box for a four prong plug. Simply put a three prong
plug on the dryer and move on with your life.

Hope this helps,
William

William, I think it is "just because". Being a copier tech for 36
years,I am more comfortable with the earth ground wire. When I showed
the installer the receptacle in my hand, he matched a pigtail. Since
this is a stackable, I don't feel like moving both units to change the
pigtail. I do have installed romex wire with red,black,white, and
ground. I am probably making this a lot harder than it deserves. I will
look for a 2" receptacle tomorrow or a bigger box or(?)

"Nick C Topolos" wrote in message
...
Greetings Nick,

Why do you want a four prong plug? Just because?

If you have a three prong outlet you probably don't have the right wire
running to the box for a four prong plug. Simply put a three prong
plug on the dryer and move on with your life.

Hope this helps,
William

William, I think it is "just because". Being a copier tech for 36
years,I am more comfortable with the earth ground wire. When I showed
the installer the receptacle in my hand, he matched a pigtail. Since
this is a stackable, I don't feel like moving both units to change the
pigtail. I do have installed romex wire with red,black,white, and
ground. I am probably making this a lot harder than it deserves. I will
look for a 2" receptacle tomorrow or a bigger box or(?)

3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.
4 wire plug is hot, hot, neutral and ground.

It is a little tricky, but it is possible to remove the existing one gang
plastic box and install a two gang plastic box without making a mess out of
the drywall. That dryer receptacle should fit nicely on a two gang box.

Get a two gang plastic old work box. Put it up to the existing box and mark
out the additional opening needed in the drywall to accommodate the two gang
box. Cut out the opening in the drywall.

Next get a big flat head screw driver and a nice pair of diagonal pliers.
Gingerly wedge the screwdriver between the existing box and the wooden stud
that it is nailed to. Move the screwdriver from the upper part of the box
to the lower part of the box and back again each time firmly applying some
force to separate the box from the stud. When you get enough space between
the box and the wall stud (Approximately 1") use the diagonal pliers to cut
the nails close to the box. The box should now be swinging freely in the
wall. Use pliers to remove the remaining nails from the wall stud.
Straighten out the wires and remove them from the box. You can try and
remove the box from the wall or just let it fall inside to be buried inside
the wall forever.

You may need to remove a cable staple or two near the existing box to gain
some slack and flexibility with the existing cable. Use a long thin
screwdriver for this and a pair of pliers.

Check to make sure that the new two gang old work box fits in the new hole.
If not then cut out some more for a good fit.

Next straighten out the wires as much as possible. The larger the wires,
the more difficult they will be to get into the new box. Push the wires
part way into the box as you insert the box into the wall. Little by little
push and pull the wires into the box as you continue to push the box into
the wall. Your hands will get tired quickly so take your time.

When the box is fully inside the wall and the wires are completely in the
box you can straighten the box out and set the securing wings to fasten the
box to the drywall. For extra strength I like to shoot one drywall or #8 x
1-1/4" sheet metal screw through the middle of the side of the plastic box
into the wall stud.

Wire up the outlet and use a two gang cover for a dryer outlet to finish it
off. I'm not sure if Home depot sells these, but they are readily available
at an electrical supply house. If a standard size cover doesn't completely
cover the opening in the drywall, you can order a midsize or a king size
from the supply house.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv



"Nick C Topolos" wrote in message
...
We just received a new stackable washer and dryer. I wanted to use a 4
prong plug and the installer installed a 4 prong pigtail in the dryer. I
then bought a new receptacle which I found is 2 1/4" wide to fit in a 2"
wide box. Is there a more narrow receptacle available? Or what is an
easy way to remove the existing box? It is plastic. I have a blue old
work box with the fold out tabs but I think it would be too flimsy for
the 240V plug. Thank you

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:35:19 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:

[snip]


3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.

No. For clothes dryers and ranges, it's Phase, Phase, Grounded
conductor (Neutral)

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:35:19 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:

[snip]


3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.

No. For clothes dryers and ranges, it's Phase, Phase, Grounded
conductor (Neutral)




Why am I getting the feeling that somebody here is from the UK or somewhere
else where there is only 220VAC

And others answering are from North America where 110 is the household
standard


AMUN

In article ,
Amun wrote:

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:35:19 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:

[snip]


3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.

No. For clothes dryers and ranges, it's Phase, Phase, Grounded
conductor (Neutral)




Why am I getting the feeling that somebody here is from the UK or somewhere
else where there is only 220VAC

And others answering are from North America where 110 is the household
standard


AMUN



No.. 120/240 is the household standard.. before that it was 115/230, and
before that it was 110/220. If you stick a meter on it, you're more
likely to find 125/250v.

The 120v is derived from a transformer, with a 240v secondary, of which the
center is tapped and grounded, forming what is commonly referred to as
the neutral. The correct name is "grounded conductor".

This differs from the "grounding conductor", or "ground" in that it is
connected to the secondary of the transformer.

The "grounding conductor" is connected to an earth ground.

The two hot legs are "phases", listed here as "phase-A", and "phase-B".


bad ASCII art follows:

transformer

------} || {-----------(phase-A)----------
} || { / /
} || { 120v 240v
high } || { / /
volt } || {------------(neutral)--- / --- (your house)
} || { / _|_ /
} || { 120v //// (ground) /
} || { / /
------} || {-----------(phase-B)----------


In this example, the transformer is composed of two coils, wrapped around
a common core. One side is connected to the high woltage supply, the other
side is connected to the low voltage load.

This transformer has a coil on the secondary side that has a center tap.
This tap is connected to earth ground, creating a common reference point.

The voltage from each of the outside terminals of the coil to the center
tap is 120 volts, the voltage from one outside terminal to the other is
240 volts.

The conductor connected to the center tap is called the grounded conductor,
and is also commonly referred to as the neutral. Depending on where you are
located in relation to the ground connection, the grounded conductor may
have voltage on it in relation to ground.



Getting back to dryer cords: The older dryer cords had 3 conductors,
consisting of 2 phases, and one grounded conductor (neutral). There was no
ground.
The new 4 conductor cords have the same 3 conductors plus ground.


--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie @ tantivy.net |
| P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 |
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --

"Bob Vaughan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Amun wrote:

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:35:19 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:

[snip]


3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.

No. For clothes dryers and ranges, it's Phase, Phase, Grounded
conductor (Neutral)


snipped


I'm not going to squabble about a few volts.
And perhaps my newserver is not showing all the posts in this thread that
might have further info

But if you read the original post the item is a stackable washer dryer, and
some replies are talking about 3 wires.
And the OP says a 4 wire plug was installed "as a choice", but has an
existing outlet in a 2" box (3 wire? 4 wire?)
(the references to the cord as a "pigtail" and "earth ground" has me
guessing too)

Any North American unit would likely need both the 220/240, AND the
110/115/117/120/130, and would need 4 wires to have a ground

In the UK, OZ, and most of Europe, everything is 240, which can be done
including ground with only three wires.
And even plugs/outlets have different shapes too.

Hard to give answers/advice without being sure of all the facts, and as this
is usenet, posts can originate anywhere.

If the OP is still reading this thread, it would help to know where this is
being done.

And as one post already asks "why do they want to change what an installer
just put in ?"


AMUN

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 05:19:46 -0400, "Amun"
wrote:


"Bob Vaughan" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Amun wrote:

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:35:19 -0700, "SQLit" wrote:

[snip]


3 wire plug is hot, hot and ground.

No. For clothes dryers and ranges, it's Phase, Phase, Grounded
conductor (Neutral)


snipped


I'm not going to squabble about a few volts.
And perhaps my newserver is not showing all the posts in this thread that
might have further info

But if you read the original post the item is a stackable washer dryer, and
some replies are talking about 3 wires.
And the OP says a 4 wire plug was installed "as a choice", but has an
existing outlet in a 2" box (3 wire? 4 wire?)
(the references to the cord as a "pigtail" and "earth ground" has me
guessing too)

Any North American unit would likely need both the 220/240, AND the
110/115/117/120/130, and would need 4 wires to have a ground

I'm assuming that the OP is in the USA. The "four-wire" or
"three-wire" option suggests that.

In older homes the code allowed the grounded conductor (here after
referred to as "neutral") to serve as the grounding conductor (here
after referred to as "ground") for clothes dryers and ranges. IOW, it
was tied to the frame of the appliance. There -is- some voltage drop
on the neutral, which there would not be on a ground wire, unless
there is a fault.

This voltage drop arises from the fact that typically, motors, light
bulbs, timers, etc. were all 120V devices and were connected from one
phase to neutral. The code required a certain minimum sized wire for
the neutral (I'm not going to look it up but it was substantial) that
would minimize the voltage drop to a safe level, as long as nothing
went wrong.

In the newer code, four wires are now required, with the neutral
unbonded from the frame of the appliance and the ground wire used for
the safety ground.

I believe that the OP said there were four wires in the box, so it
makes sense to install the four-wire receptacle and improve the safety
of the installation. If there were not four wires available then
changing the cord-plug to a three-wire is the safe thing to do, since
a four-wire receptacle without the ground wire connected gives a
future user an illusion of safety that isn't there.