I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection). However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection). However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James


This is Turtle.

well James if you transport a refrigerator and lay it down , you should stand it
back up and let it sit over nite unplugged and letb the oil drain back to where
it should be in ther compressor and itvshopuld crank properly. So stand the
feeezer up right and try it again tomorrow. If it still don't cranbk post back
and we will start another set of work deals.

TURTLE

Hey Turtle, thanks a lot for the reply!

well James if you transport a refrigerator and lay it down , you should
stand it back up and let it sit over nite unplugged and letb the oil drain
back to where it should be in ther compressor and itvshopuld crank properly.
So stand the feeezer up right and try it again tomorrow. If it still don't
cranbk post back and we will start another set of work deals.

The fridge has been upright for several days now. I tried it again just now,
and it still does the exact same thing I described in my first post.

BTW, it's a normal fridge. Not an electric/gas combo or anything fancy.

What could prevent the compressor from starting?

James

when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3
seconds then a click and nothing.

Compressors usually have starting relays that fail. Techs have special
testing devices to bypass the starting relay. This is the only way to test
the compressor for sure. Most older refrigerators (make? model?) had very
good compressors and usually the problem is that the starting relay fails.
It's not very easy for a homeowner to test the relay by bypassing it.

When the compressor is off, the main winding in the compressor will draw
more current, which causes the relay to kick in the start winding to help
out and get the compressor running. Sort of like a turbocharge to overcome
the heavy startup resistance. When it has started to run, the main winding
draws less current and the start winding will be disconnected by the relay,
which is sort of like an overdrive in a car. Since less energy is required
to keep it spinning once it's started, the compressor only needs the extra
boost for a few seconds.

Also, the hotter a compressor gets, the more power is required to start it.
Leave plenty of times between starting attempts. Air conditioners usually
have a timed interlock that prevents them from restarting immediately upon
unintentional loss of power for just that reason.

If the starting relay is bad, the compressor usually hums but doesn't start.
If the unit fails to start in a few seconds, the circuit protector cuts the
power to the relay so the compressor isn't ruined. Sometimes, but rarely,
the overload kicks in too soon, but it's far more likely you dislodged dust
into the relay contacts during the move and as a result, there's no extra
"jolt" going to the compressor. (It is seldom the case that the overload is
bad, though. It seems to be working fine in your case, since the humming
stops before your panel breaker or fuse trips.)

I'd look for the starting relay and clean it and test it, but I'd also try
to find a wiring diagram for the unit before I mucked around with it much.
NEVER bypass the overload switch! You could melt the wires or cause a fire.
I'd also thoroughly blow out all the dust and inspect the evaporator fan as
general maintenance, but I wouldn't expect them to be the cause of this
problem. Not cleaning them now will likely lead to future problems, though.

You also may be plugging it into a bad outlet that isn't able to supply
enough startup current. That's pretty rare, though, and it would probably
trip a circuit breaker. Where is the box plugged into and how many amps are
available at that outlet? Do you have a meter of any kind? One with a
clip-on amp probe rated at least 20A is what I would consider the minimum
type tool to do refrigerator trouble shooting.

If you don't have a meter, plug a small TV into the same outlet and see
whether the picture shrinks dramatically when the refrigerator starts up.
If it does, you're circuit's inadequate. And, please don't take this
personally, but if you don't have a meter, you probably shouldn't be mucking
around the unit's wiring. By the time I felt confident enough to tackle
such repairs, I owned at least three volt/amp meters of various
capabilities. There's more than enough current in a refrigerator to send
*you* to the refrigerator at the county morgue if you're not careful!

--
Bobby G. (still keeping my Westinghouse going at age 28!)


"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on
its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click
and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its
trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an
idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

James Jones wrote:
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection). However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

Hi,

Certainly sounds like the compressor may have gone sour

when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click and
nothing.

That sure is a compressor trying to start but cannot.

Low voltage ( extension cord ), bad start relay/overload, bad
compressor would be prime suspects.

http://www.applianceaid.com/refrigerator.html#clicking
http://tinyurl.com/dpdqd

jeff.
Appliance Repair Aid
http://www.applianceaid.com/

Could be a bad start capacitor.

"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on
its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click
and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its
trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an
idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

Robert Green writes:

Also, the hotter a compressor gets, the more power is required to
start it. Leave plenty of times between starting attempts. Air
conditioners usually have a timed interlock that prevents them from
restarting immediately upon unintentional loss of power for just that
reason.

Has nothing to do with temperature. Hotter would tend to make it start
easier since the oil is thinner.

The purpose of the delay is simply to let the head pressure equalize,
against which the compressor motor does not otherwise have enough start
torque to avoid stalling.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Robert Green writes:

Also, the hotter a compressor gets, the more power is required to
start it. Leave plenty of times between starting attempts. Air
conditioners usually have a timed interlock that prevents them from
restarting immediately upon unintentional loss of power for just that
reason.

Has nothing to do with temperature. Hotter would tend to make it start
easier since the oil is thinner.

The purpose of the delay is simply to let the head pressure equalize,
against which the compressor motor does not otherwise have enough start
torque to avoid stalling.

The hotter it is, the higher the pressure inside the system which does have
a bearing on the amount of energy used to get the compressor going.

That's one reason why a compressor would kick off if you unplug it while
it's running and try plugging it in right away. It will simply draw too
many amps and shut off with the thermal overload switch. You have to wait
a few minutes for the pressure in the high pressure side of the system to
come down a bit before it will start again..

Rich writes:

The hotter it is, the higher the pressure inside the system which does
have a bearing on the amount of energy used to get the compressor
going.

No. The absolute pressure doesn't matter. It's the differential across
the compressor input and output, which is zero no matter what the
temperature or pressure is in the system, after a delay.

Furthermore, the pressure in a vapor-liquid system reflects the *coldest*
part, not the hot parts at the compressor.

That's one reason why a compressor would kick off if you unplug it
while it's running and try plugging it in right away. It will simply
draw too many amps and shut off with the thermal overload switch.

No. It will stall because the motor is designed with little starting
torque, and it therefore cannot overcome any significant pressure
differential. Heat has nothing to do with it. history everything. The
thermal overload is just a mechanism to detect stalling and impose a delay
before another try.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
: Rich writes:
:
: The hotter it is, the higher the pressure inside the system
which does
: have a bearing on the amount of energy used to get the
compressor
: going.
:
: No. The absolute pressure doesn't matter. It's the
differential across
: the compressor input and output, which is zero no matter what
the
: temperature or pressure is in the system, after a delay.
:
: Furthermore, the pressure in a vapor-liquid system reflects the
*coldest*
: part, not the hot parts at the compressor.
:
: That's one reason why a compressor would kick off if you
unplug it
: while it's running and try plugging it in right away. It
will simply
: draw too many amps and shut off with the thermal overload
switch.
:
: No. It will stall because the motor is designed with little
starting
: torque, and it therefore cannot overcome any significant
pressure
: differential. Heat has nothing to do with it. history
everything. The
: thermal overload is just a mechanism to detect stalling and
impose a delay
: before another try.

Just wanted to say; This poster is correct; many of the others
sound like myths and guesses, unfortunately.

"Rich" wrote in message
news:F0hSe.2871$rh.2362@trndny03...
: Could be a bad start capacitor.

Caused to go bad by laying it on its back? Please stop guessing.

RSIR-CSIR-PSC-CSR
"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on
its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click
and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its
trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an
idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

I feel as an ENGLISHMAN with a long tradition of helping the LOWER ORDERS
The poor and especialy COLONIALS that i should elucidate on YOUR PROBLEM
A PROBLEM created by poverty and Sloth
The dear old Single phase, squirrel cage induction motor is inherently non
starting. So the
motor has two windings. A START winding with a low inductance and a high
resistance
and a RUN winding with a high Inductance and a low resistance. The high
resistance of the
start winding places it electrically 30 degrees out of phase with the RUN
winding and this
SPLITS THE SINGLE PHASE and starts the motor. At app 78 % of maximum speed
the start winding is then disconnected. RSIR resistance start induction run
The methods of disconnecting the start winding are - Current relay -
Potential relay
Hot wire, PTC and Centrifugal switch.
RSIR Has a very low starting torque so it's applied to small domestic
systems which
equalize on the off cycle through the capillary, the refrigerant charge
migrating to the
evaporator.
WOTS WRONG WITH POPS DEAR OLD FRIDGE Well i suspect that a wire
or connection is loose or the current relay is stuck ( Take it OFF and shake
it )

HAVE A NICE DAY and rejoin the british empire

"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on
its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click
and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its
trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an
idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

"James Jones" wrote in message
...
Hey Turtle, thanks a lot for the reply!

well James if you transport a refrigerator and lay it down , you should
stand it back up and let it sit over nite unplugged and letb the oil drain
back to where it should be in ther compressor and itvshopuld crank properly.
So stand the feeezer up right and try it again tomorrow. If it still don't
cranbk post back and we will start another set of work deals.

The fridge has been upright for several days now. I tried it again just now,
and it still does the exact same thing I described in my first post.

BTW, it's a normal fridge. Not an electric/gas combo or anything fancy.

What could prevent the compressor from starting?

James


This is Turtle.

Here is the list of item that would stop the compressor from starting.

***Bad Start relay.
***Bad Run Capasitor or start capasitor in combo.
***Low Voltage like Jeff said, On a exterention Cord too long. Never put a
Refrigerator on a Extention Cord of more than 6 feet.
***Bad Compressor like stuck and jaming the motor of the compressor.

TURTLE

When i was young and waiting to inherit daddies "MONEY "
I did all kinds of naughty FINGS with daddies GOLD plated
FRIDGE

The naughty little fridge had a compressor with three terminals
marked R - S - C. checking the resistance between these three
terminals will give S High - R Low - S High + R Low so C to
S is High C to R is low and S to R is the sum of the high and
low readings of the stator windings.
Once you have identified the Terminals C - S - R WITH THE
POWER OFF put Active on R and S and Neutral on C.
TURN THE POWER ON FOR NO MORE THAN THREE
SECONDS TO JOG THE COMPRESSOR THEN TURN
THE POWER OFF. Restore the starting relay and original
wiring.
THIS IS VERY NAUGHTY but not as naughty as the things
i did to Fenella Brownsmythe BUT THAT IS ANOTHER
STORY
HAVE A NICE DAY and god bless George the third
"James Jones" wrote in message
...
I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find before the
transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and it was placed on
its
back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However,
when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3 seconds then a click
and
nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from the compressor. It's like its
trying
to start but can't so it gives up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician
and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with experience or an
idea
can give me a few clues as to what I could do to diagnose the problem?

Thanks,

James

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Rich writes:

The hotter it is, the higher the pressure inside the system which does
have a bearing on the amount of energy used to get the compressor
going.

No. The absolute pressure doesn't matter. It's the differential across
the compressor input and output, which is zero no matter what the
temperature or pressure is in the system, after a delay.

Furthermore, the pressure in a vapor-liquid system reflects the *coldest*
part, not the hot parts at the compressor.

That's one reason why a compressor would kick off if you unplug it
while it's running and try plugging it in right away. It will simply
draw too many amps and shut off with the thermal overload switch.

No. It will stall because the motor is designed with little starting
torque, and it therefore cannot overcome any significant pressure
differential. Heat has nothing to do with it. history everything. The
thermal overload is just a mechanism to detect stalling and impose a delay
before another try.

When the compressor is running it pumps a high temperature high pressure gas
which is then condensed to a high pressure high temperature liquid which
then
is pushed through a expansion valve or tube to expand or flash, if you will,
to a low temp low pressure gas which is then sucked into the compressor and
cycles again. If you shut off the compressor and turn it on right away
while the
pressure is still too high in the condenser it will draw too many amps and
"click" off.
There are two sets of windings in the compressor's motor one for running the
other to provide more torque for starting and if the "start" winding draws
to
much current, due to whatever reason, it will heat the thermal overload and
shut the thing off. The heat I was referring to is not ambient temperature
in the
room but rather the heat in the high pressure side of a running compressor.
The higher the pressure the higher the temp would generally be in the high
side
of the system.
The "delay" the thermal overload provides is to give the unit time to lower
the
pressure in the high side of it's system or rather equalize the pressure
some
between the condenser and the evaporator by way of it's expansion valve
before
trying to start the compressor again.

No jerkoff not by laying on it's back like your mom but by coincidence.

"Pop" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
news:F0hSe.2871$rh.2362@trndny03...
: Could be a bad start capacitor.

Caused to go bad by laying it on its back? Please stop guessing.

"Rich" wrote in message
news:2ulSe.3224$rh.325@trndny03...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Robert Green writes:

Also, the hotter a compressor gets, the more power is required to
start it. Leave plenty of times between starting attempts. Air
conditioners usually have a timed interlock that prevents them from
restarting immediately upon unintentional loss of power for just that
reason.

Has nothing to do with temperature. Hotter would tend to make it start
easier since the oil is thinner.

The purpose of the delay is simply to let the head pressure equalize,
against which the compressor motor does not otherwise have enough start
torque to avoid stalling.

The hotter it is, the higher the pressure inside the system which does
have
a bearing on the amount of energy used to get the compressor going.

That's one reason why a compressor would kick off if you unplug it while
it's running and try plugging it in right away. It will simply draw too
many amps and shut off with the thermal overload switch. You have to
wait
a few minutes for the pressure in the high pressure side of the system to
come down a bit before it will start again..

Correct. It's impossible for the pressure to drop without the temperature
to drop as well. Boyle's Law. A time delay helps prevent the motor from
burning up. Without it, the thermal overload in the motor would cut the
power after the motor overheats and stalls. Those types of protectors are
designed for occasional emergency protection, not for frequent or continuous
duty. A delay timer does not potentially decompose through use and is the
inherently safer way to deal with predictable motor stalls.

If you cycle a thermal overload protector too many times, it may fail. In
that case the compressor motor's windings would get red hot, the insulation
on the windings would melt or burn and all that garbage vapor would enter
the refrigerant lines. Soon after toxic sludge enters the lines, the
compressor enters the garbage dump, its insides coated with stinky tar!

I think what Mr. Kinch wants us to know that even if you start up an A/C
compressor for a brief time, even if it's not very hot, you'll still face
potential stall issues because pressure has built up in the system. I think
we differ on whether a hotter compressor is more likely to stall than a cold
one. I believe that's true, but I am not sure our distinguished colleague
agrees.

I believe that in addition to allowing the internal Freon pressure to
equalize, there are other very important reasons for a timed delay start. A
delay timer keeps a customer from short-cycling either an over-heated,
undercharged or otherwise troubled system to the point where the motor's
thermal overload fails and the system burns up. The 15 minute delay is to
ensure that the unit has time to both discharge *and* cool down. The
pressure equalizes because the heat generated by the act of compression is
slowly released to the surrounding atmosphere.

How this all helps the OP find out why his refrigerator won't start isn't
nearly as clear! :-)

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green writes:

The
pressure equalizes because the heat generated by the act of
compression is slowly released to the surrounding atmosphere.

You misunderstand the elements of the system. The pressure equalizes
because it eventually all flows through the high-to-low side restriction
(capillary tube or expansion valve). It will do this regardless of the
temperature.

Heat has nothing to do with it. If you start a refrigerator, and stop it
after a few seconds, no significant heat will have accumulated, yet it will
not restart immediately.

Compare to an ordinary air compressor, which has an unloader to release the
head pressure for starting, so it can restart without a delay. Temperature
is irrelevant.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:30:55 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

It's impossible for the pressure to drop without the temperature
to drop as well. Boyle's Law.

Huh???

You mean Charle's Law.
Furthermore, this refers to ideal =gasses=, without the phase
change
(latent heat).


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:40:34 -0500, James Jones
wrote:

I just inherited a fridge that won't start. It was working find
before the transport, but not anymore. This is my dad's fridge, and
it was placed on its back in the trailer (the fridge, not my dad!).

Nothing seems to be broken or bent (from a visual-only inspection).
However, when I plug it in I hear a muffled "buzz" for like 3
seconds then a click and nothing. The buzz seems to be coming from
the compressor. It's like its trying to start but can't so it gives
up.

Since I'm flat broke, between jobs (and cheap I can't afford a
technician and I would rather not buy another fridge. Anyone with
experience or an idea can give me a few clues as to what I could do
to diagnose the problem?

Some start relays have no return spring - the plunger is gravity
assisted on return. It could be jammed or hung up. With the box
fully upright, remove the cover and lightly rap on the relay with the
wooden handle of a hammer.



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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Hi again,

Thanks to all those that replied to my original post!

First, the fridge is a "Westinghouse Monaco Frost Free". I've checked for the
starting relay, and I assume it is the small part (in this model anyway)
affixed to the compressor itself. Three small connectors forming a triangle
extrude from the compressor and they insert in (what I identified as) the
relay,holding it into place.

The relay also has a round moving part at the bottom that is held by some kind
of connector. I assume that this part is responsible for starting the
compressor and defines this gizmo as the relay.

Now, I'm not sure if it was malfunctioning but as I tried to pull one of the
wire from the relay, a connector on the moving part was really frail and broke.
So I'm getting a new one and hopefully it will fix the problem (yeah, right!).

I have to wait for that part as the store I went to had to order it. In the
meantime, is there a way to test the compressor itself to see if it's working?

I dare not do anything with the three connectors coming out of the compressor
without some advice first! I have a good meter and basic knowledge of
electricity (enough to know that electricity is a very dangerous friend!).

Thanks again,

James Jones