My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

Absolutely fine idea. No problem at all



Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

Redundancy is a good thing.
Sounds like a good idea.

one caveat though, remember to tell others in the house, or if you should
ever sell, let the next owners know.
I could see someone pulling their hair out, trying to figure out why the
&*$%# thermostat won't work right. LOL

AMUN



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Absolutely fine idea. No problem at all



Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,


The batteries are there to "save" your program in case the power goes out.
The drain on the batteries is so low, the batteries would probably last 6
months to a year. Best thing to do is change the batteries at the beginning
of the heat season and you won't have any problems.

OTOH, if the power goes out long enough to kill the batteries, your pipes
and cat are going to freeze anyway.....

"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

the batteries are for backup only. The furnace supplies power to the t-stat
under normal situations. Even if the batteries fail as long as you have
power the t-stat will function.
To me sounds like more work that it is worth.

Change the batteries every heating season and you will never have a problem.

Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...

My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,



The batteries are there to "save" your program in case the power goes out.
The drain on the batteries is so low, the batteries would probably last 6
months to a year. Best thing to do is change the batteries at the beginning
of the heat season and you won't have any problems.

OTOH, if the power goes out long enough to kill the batteries, your pipes
and cat are going to freeze anyway.....

Actually, this might not be totally
true. I have a Honeywell programmable and
the batteries actually run the entire
unit. Typically there is no "return"
line for
power in a thermostat, especially in a 2
wire system. Sure, you could draw some
current from the 2 wires when the stat
is off, but that's not too good, especially
in the older furnaces that control the
gas valve directly. I have seen some stats
that do this. They can actually draw
enough current to keep the gas value open
just a little. I had this happen with
an earlier Honeywell unit. Honeywell
admitted
this was a problem and replaced the unit
with one that has a small relay in the
unit to close the connection and open
the gas valve. BTW, the only current
drawn by the anticipator is when the
stat is on, as it is in series with the
switch.

This all said, you could still run them
in parallel setting the old mechanical
unit to
a lower emergency temperature and the
new one to a higher, normal temperature.

Years ago, when I worked for Sears, the guy training me wouldn't let me jump
the furnace end of the thermostat wiring. Had to pull one of the wires, and
then jump the terminals remaining on the furnace board. He said that simply
jumping the connections would burn out some thermostats.

Well, that was 9 years ago, and I'm still not sure why. No one explained why
(back then) and I havn't heard anything convincing since then.

Your double thermostat idea sounds good to me.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

Chip C wrote:
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto


I think you are approaching the problem from the wrong direction Chip.

If you are leaving the house long enough for it to freeze up if the heat
fails, then you really should have some system to alert someone to come
an fix whatever's gone down.

There are inexpensive temperature operated dialers available which will
call several different telephone numbers of friends, family or your
heating contractor who have been given access to the property, and play
a recorded message telling them that the place is getting cold.

If your budget permits, central alarm companies who do burglar and fire
monitoring also offer low temperature alarm monitoring and notification.

Way back when, we just used a line voltage rated thermostat to turn on a
red lamp in a front window if the house got too cold, and the neighbors
would pitch in to help if they saw it lit.

You should also think about shutting off your main water valve when you
leave the place empty for more than a day to avoid serious water damage
to the place if you do get a freeze busted pipe or something like a
water heater or a washing machine hose decides to blow while you are away.

I learned all that through experience. (The best kind to have, my next
door neighbor's, not mine. G)

My neighbors of nearly 20 years moved to a nearby state in the fall of
2002. They put their gorgeous home on the market for $1.8 mil. and took
no precautions about freeze ups. The house didn't sell quickly and one
morning in January 2003 I looked out a side window and saw this:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/freezer.jpg

That's heavy columns of dirty brown ice coming down the front of that
garage door.

I had the unpleasant task of calling my old neighbor at his new location
to tell him his oil heat must have quit.

It took all of 2003 and the spring of 2004 for them to battle things out
with their insurer and then have contractors rip out and replace half of
the first floor of that house. They hauled away three of those big "roll
on" containers of ruined house guts. The place went back on the market
in the summer of 2004 but still didn't sell.

Guess what happened in January 2005?

Right, a pipe froze and burst again. I found out through a phone call
from the ex lady of that house, telling me she knew already and asking
me not to call her husband about it as he was recovering from heart surgery.


They only needed one "roll on" container to hold what they ripped out
this time and the repairs were completed by summer. The house went back
on the market, but word must be out and maybe potential buyers are
scared off by the possibility of mold, because the price has trickled
down to $1.3 mil already.

Some guys never learn, do they?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in
news:EeIQe.7869$k32.6162@trnddc08:


"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some
low safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the
house from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I
figure thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel,
either will close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no
problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,


The batteries are there to "save" your program in case the power goes
out. The drain on the batteries is so low, the batteries would
probably last 6 months to a year.

More like 3 years for alkalines.
You stand a better chance of having them LEAK and corrode the battery
contacts in the TS.

Best thing to do is change the
batteries at the beginning of the heat season and you won't have any
problems.

that would go a long way towards preventing leakage damage.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter. So I'm thinking, can I
wire the old round Honeywell up somewhere else in the house,
electrically in parallel with the new one, and leave it set on some low
safe temp, so if the new one fails, the old one will keep the house
from freezing? Or will this mad scheme damage something? I figure
thermostats are just switches and if two are in parallel, either will
close the circuit; even if both are closed at once, no problem.

This is a two-wire system, heat only, newish high-efficiency
sealed-combustion gas boiler with circulator. The old Honeywell has a
heat anticipator, which I'd set to low or off. The new one, I think,
uses digital logic for that function so *I assume* draws no current
when not calling for heat.

Thanks for any advice,

Chip C
Toronto

This is Turtle.

Fine ideal with the dual thermostats !

now one thing to think about here. When a Honeywell thermostat batterys fail.
they fail but the hvac system should still keep the heat or cooling going as set
when you left. the screen will go blank but it should keep running as it did as
it was with batterys in it were good. The thermostat batterys are really for
control out put to let you see what is going on but will still keep working. the
system works off the 24 volt power system and not the battery power system.

Another one for you to concider : Most all Honeywell batterey type thermostats
will warn you about 1 to 2 months as to being low on battery level. they will
come on the display screen and say low battery about a month or two before they
go out.

TURTLE

HI CHIP

YES YOU CAN PUT ANOTHER THERMOSTAT IN PARALLEL WITH YOUR BATTERY
OPERATED ONE THIS WILL WORK. WHEN THE BATTERY ONE FAILS THE ROUND T87
THERMOSTAT WILL CLOSE THE CONTACTS TO OPERATE THE HEAT.GOOD LUCK

"bob" wrote in message
ups.com...
HI CHIP

YES YOU CAN PUT ANOTHER THERMOSTAT IN PARALLEL WITH YOUR BATTERY
OPERATED ONE THIS WILL WORK. WHEN THE BATTERY ONE FAILS THE ROUND T87
THERMOSTAT WILL CLOSE THE CONTACTS TO OPERATE THE HEAT.GOOD LUCK


This is Turtle.

Bob , Awwwwwww Are you Deef or is your cap lock stuck ? You might want to make
regular letter to type here with so we can hear you better.

TURTLE

On Mon 29 Aug 2005 10:10:01a, Chip C wrote in alt.home.repair:

My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries and of course if
the batteries fail (or any other fault develops with its electronics)
then we'll have no heat. Bad news for the pipes and the cats if that
happens when we're out for a week mid-winter.

Your idea should work, but what I want to know is, what do the cats have to
eat if you're gone for a week at a time? I'd be afraid they'd starve before
they froze.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...
My fancy new programmable thermostat takes batteries
snip


HAve you checked by reading the instructions to see if your stat has a
failsafe freeze protection on it?
Every single digital stat we sell has this feature...if for whatever reason
the batts fail, or the programmings off, or if you just turn it off and
forget it, it will maintain a 50F temp.
Now..if the transformer in the unit fails, your gonna freeze.

"The thermostat batteries are really for control out put to let you see what
is going on but will still keep working. the system works off the 24 volt
power system and not the battery power system."

Don't know what brand of thermostat the neighbors have but it will not work
when the batteries go dead, no furnace, no heat.

Walt Conner

"Walt Conner" wrote in message
ink.net...
"The thermostat batteries are really for control out put to let you see what
is going on but will still keep working. the system works off the 24 volt
power system and not the battery power system."

Don't know what brand of thermostat the neighbors have but it will not work
when the batteries go dead, no furnace, no heat.

Walt Conner

This is Turtle.

Heat will work even after the thermostat tells you the batterys are low and will
warn you 1 to 2 months before it goes out.

then when you don't change the batterys like you should or have been told to on
the screen of the thermostat. The heat will still work about 2 to 3 weeks with
battery just about dead and screen goes out. honeywell will still work as to
keep what it was set on when it went out for a good while months with the
screen dead.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it tells you your battery as bad / low and does this 2 months before it dies.

then when you wait till the screen goes out. It will still run the heat 2 to 4
weeks after that very possibley longer.

Now if you can't figure out there is something wrong when the screen goes blank
and has been blank for 2 weeks or longer. LORD help you !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Honeywell will do this but other brands i don't Know.

TURTLE

Many thanks for the advice from all.

To answer the several very good points that came up:

- We do have a catsitter come in every couple of days while we're out
but it's not her job to diagnose hvac problems and besides, in a real
cold snap we could have frozen pipes in less time than that, I think.
It's the rads I'm worried about.

- The new unit is a Honeywell Chronotherm IV. The manual says that when
the batteries are dead, there will be no heat, so that's what I'm going
by. But the batteries are just part of the story, I figure that an
electronic gizmo has lots of ways of failing besides batteries.

I'm really glad to see Turtle is still posting. I hope you're keeping
well, Turtle.

Chip C
Toronto

"Chip C" wrote in message
oups.com...


- The new unit is a Honeywell Chronotherm IV. The manual says that when
the batteries are dead, there will be no heat, so that's what I'm going
by. But the batteries are just part of the story, I figure that an
electronic gizmo has lots of ways of failing besides batteries.

I am unhappy that Honeywell stopped making the Chronotherm line. I have a
Chrono III that has been performing well for quite a few years.

Now they are making the Touchscreen units. Have only installed one so far.
We'll see how well they work.....


http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consum...en/Default.htm