Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and fear it
might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

I would not run steel wire. There are many stranded wire
confightations for low volt wiring. I suspect you only need 2
wires, so simple 18 AWG twisted pair should be more than adequate
for your needs. You can get heavier gauge, but conduit or "smurf
tube" may be better protection of the low volt wiring.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms,
security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire.
I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and
fear it
might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage
system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember
being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel
wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs
too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it
locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could
refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

In article .com,
" wrote:

Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I

Not 12awg but the telephone co runs lots of copper flashed steel wire in
outdoor runs. Tough stuff, and the linemen will usually give you the
stuff they take down since you obviously only need short pieces.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

wrote:
Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and fear
it might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

Run one steel wire for strength, but not powered and run the copper
wound around the steel. I don't think you would be happy with using steel
as a conductor.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

According to :

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and fear it
might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

18ga solid or stranded copper is pretty tough. You're going to find it
very difficult to get multi-strand insulated steel wire of a suitable
size.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

I wonder whether stranded copper instead of solid copper would resolve
your issues. Perhaps also a heavier gauge of copper with sturdy
insulation (#14 THHN, e.g.) would do the trick.

wrote:
Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and fear it
might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?

Greetings,

Thank you all very much for your replies. I have decided to just use
12 awg copper because I already stock it for use with EMT/RMT until I
luck upon a source for insulated steel wire. I see linemen from time
to time and I will ask about the copper flashed steel the next time I
see them.

Thanks again,
William

" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

I have previously used small wire for doorbells, intercoms, security
systems, etc. and have experienced some degree of wire damage at
tenants' hands simply due to the physical strength of the wire. I
could switch to romex but I don't really want to pay for it and fear it
might confuse someone into combining a high and low voltage system.
Where can I get solid ~12 AWG insulated steel wire? I remember being
able to purchase a 1 mile spool of 12.5 AWG galvanized steel wire for
electrical fences for under $50. What I want probably weighs too much
to economically ship off the Internet. Where can I find it locally at
a reasonable price and if nowhere then perhaps if someone could refer
me to a cheap Internet sight?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: Is there some reason why this is a bad idea?


This is Turtle.

the only place I can think of that uses insulated steel wire is the army. They
have WD-1 which is about some #16 steel insulated wire. You can check at army
surplus stores and get them to look for you some. they would come in a 5 miles
spool and one spool would probley do you.

TURTLE

Greetings,

This sounds like exactly what I need! I solute you TURTLE!

William

According to :
Greetings,

This sounds like exactly what I need! I solute you TURTLE!

If you're that desperate, you could always use insulated clothesline.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Steel wire would have a much higher resistance than copper. That makes
it unsuitable for electrc use in general. Also, you are more likely to
get corrosion at the connections (rust) than with copper.

Stretch

Stretch wrote:
Steel wire would have a much higher resistance than copper. That makes
it unsuitable for electrc use in general. Also, you are more likely to
get corrosion at the connections (rust) than with copper.

Stretch

Greetings Stretch,

I mainly want the steel wire for low-power applications such as
doorbells and security systems so I can easily compensate for the
increased resistance with increased wire size. The reason I want to
use the steel wire instead of the tiny copper wires currently in use is
to increase their physical strength, reducing damage, reducing costs to
repair said damage. I could always use a large enough copper wire but
that would be cost prohibitive. For instance, if I currently use an 18
awg cu wire and wanted to increase strength I could substitute a 12 awg
steel wire or a 10 awg cu wire (cu is not as strong as steel). I
didn't do the math with the example above but you get the point. I
would probably use something like noalox on the connectors to combat
potential rust.

Hope this helps,
William

" wrote:

Stretch wrote:
Steel wire would have a much higher resistance than copper. That makes
it unsuitable for electrc use in general. Also, you are more likely to
get corrosion at the connections (rust) than with copper.

Stretch

Greetings Stretch,

I mainly want the steel wire for low-power applications such as
doorbells and security systems so I can easily compensate for the
increased resistance with increased wire size. The reason I want to
use the steel wire instead of the tiny copper wires currently in use is
to increase their physical strength, reducing damage, reducing costs to
repair said damage. I could always use a large enough copper wire but
that would be cost prohibitive. For instance, if I currently use an 18
awg cu wire and wanted to increase strength I could substitute a 12 awg
steel wire or a 10 awg cu wire (cu is not as strong as steel). I
didn't do the math with the example above but you get the point. I
would probably use something like noalox on the connectors to combat
potential rust.

I really can't imagine that physical damage that would break Cu wouldn't
also tear up steel wire as well unless it is also of significant size.
What sort of thing are you finding being done?

According to Duane Bozarth :
" wrote:

Stretch wrote:
Steel wire would have a much higher resistance than copper. That makes
it unsuitable for electrc use in general. Also, you are more likely to
get corrosion at the connections (rust) than with copper.

I mainly want the steel wire for low-power applications such as
doorbells and security systems so I can easily compensate for the
increased resistance with increased wire size. The reason I want to
use the steel wire instead of the tiny copper wires currently in use is
to increase their physical strength, reducing damage, reducing costs to
repair said damage. I could always use a large enough copper wire but
that would be cost prohibitive. For instance, if I currently use an 18
awg cu wire and wanted to increase strength I could substitute a 12 awg
steel wire or a 10 awg cu wire (cu is not as strong as steel). I
didn't do the math with the example above but you get the point. I
would probably use something like noalox on the connectors to combat
potential rust.

I really can't imagine that physical damage that would break Cu wouldn't
also tear up steel wire as well unless it is also of significant size.
What sort of thing are you finding being done?

It strikes me that 18ga Cu is tough enough to suggest that it's being
broken on _purpose_. If that's the case, going to heavier wire and/or
steel is an arms race you'll lose.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:

....

It strikes me that 18ga Cu is tough enough to suggest that it's being
broken on _purpose_. If that's the case, going to heavier wire and/or
steel is an arms race you'll lose.

That's the type of thought that inspired the question...seems likely to
simply be going to transfer damage from a relaively cheap/easy fix to
something likely far more of a pita/costly...

wrote:

...if I currently use an 18 awg cu wire and wanted to increase strength
I could substitute a 12 awg steel wire...

Steel is about 11.5X less conductive than copper, so 7 ga steel would
give you a similar resistance, 0.144" vs 0.043" diameter.
How would you insulate it?

Nick

wrote:
wrote:

...if I currently use an 18 awg cu wire and wanted to increase strength
I could substitute a 12 awg steel wire...

Steel is about 11.5X less conductive than copper, so 7 ga steel would
give you a similar resistance, 0.144" vs 0.043" diameter.
How would you insulate it?

Nick

Greetings Nick,

12 ga steel is sufficient for security applications, doorbells, etc.

The purpose of my post is to find a location to purchase low cost
insulated steel wire. If I wanted uninsulated wire I would just
purchase electric fence wire.

Thanks,
William

Duane Bozarth wrote:
Chris Lewis wrote:

...

It strikes me that 18ga Cu is tough enough to suggest that it's being
broken on _purpose_. If that's the case, going to heavier wire and/or
steel is an arms race you'll lose.

That's the type of thought that inspired the question...seems likely to
simply be going to transfer damage from a relaively cheap/easy fix to
something likely far more of a pita/costly...

Typical scenario:

3 story home has security box with keypad by front door.
24 windows each have a pair of wires running to them from the security
box
wires are stapled along the molding
0.5 mile of wire in house for security system - 55 ft avg run*24
windows*2 wires
(if the average run seems high remember that going up a door across
the top and then back down is 16 feet alone (7+7+2))

It may be the tenant's fault but I always get back the house with a
break somewhere.