While browsing some Google results I came across a document by some
particular State/Municipality building department advising DIY
homeowners that junction boxes are not permitted in attics.

Is this an NEC rule or a local idiosyncracy? In either case, why would
this be bad?

I've discovered two metal junction boxes in our attic with the Romex
simply fed through the knockouts with no clamps. I was planning to redo
them with clamps, but now I'm wondering whether it would be good to
undertake a more radical upgrade.

Perce

Greetings,

A) I have never heard anyone complain about junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL to the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather than outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free to add the clamps.

Hope this helps,
William

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would take the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

On 08/05/05 01:28 pm tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A) I have never heard anyone complain about junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL to the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

It's the "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet" from the City of
Bloomington, MN:

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/hand...3qcircuits.pdf

Page 1, right-hand column, under heading "Junction Boxes":

"Do not install junction boxes in the attic or conceal them in walls."

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather than outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free to add the clamps.

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would take the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

I'll check the boxes in question. I have already found some weird
electrical stuff in this house, including a couple of instances of wires
joined by twisting copper wire around the untwisted conductors and
insulated with the cap of a "magic marker" and the whole lot taped up.

Thanks.

Perce

"Do not install junction boxes in the
attic or conceal them in walls."

That makes no sense at all. That would mean that junction boxes must be
on the surface of the wall (how 'bout that exposed Romex?) and in the
basement, I guess.

There are some other bizarro factoids in that PDF file. Like how the
roughing-in inspection has to be done with all insulation off, what the
heck can that mean?

I'm sure that whoever wrote those sections had good intentions but I
doubt he intended it to be read the way we are.

Tim.

wrote:
"Do not install junction boxes in the
attic or conceal them in walls."

That makes no sense at all. That would mean that junction boxes must be
on the surface of the wall (how 'bout that exposed Romex?) and in the
basement, I guess.

Concealed in a wall and recessed are two different things. They don't
want buried boxes.

The attic reference is very odd. Maybe they're assuming an inaccesible
attic?

There are some other bizarro factoids in that PDF file. Like how the
roughing-in inspection has to be done with all insulation off, what the
heck can that mean?

Wall insulation, primarily. The inspector prefers to see exposed runs
and connections.

R

Wall insulation

Oh, I had my "electrical" hat on at the time!

Tim.

You could always put a light or an
outlet, depending on the location of the
box.
That might make the "locals" happy. You
could always use extra lights or an
outlet in a attic .... well, since the
advent of good battery drills and saws,
its not
as usefull as it used to be.

wrote:
"Do not install junction boxes in the
attic or conceal them in walls."


That makes no sense at all. That would mean that junction boxes must be
on the surface of the wall (how 'bout that exposed Romex?) and in the
basement, I guess.

There are some other bizarro factoids in that PDF file. Like how the
roughing-in inspection has to be done with all insulation off, what the
heck can that mean?

I'm sure that whoever wrote those sections had good intentions but I
doubt he intended it to be read the way we are.

Tim.

wrote:
"Do not install junction boxes in the
attic or conceal them in walls."


That makes no sense at all. That would mean that junction boxes must be
on the surface of the wall (how 'bout that exposed Romex?) and in the
basement, I guess.

There are some other bizarro factoids in that PDF file. Like how the
roughing-in inspection has to be done with all insulation off, what the
heck can that mean?

I'm sure that whoever wrote those sections had good intentions but I
doubt he intended it to be read the way we are.

Tim.


You are right, true or not, it makes no sense.
For example all of the light fixture boxes and
outlet boxes in the ceiling are attached to joists
and open from the attic (usually covered with
insulation). There is less protection in the
attic than in the room below. So putting a box in
the attic would not increase the danger any. I
would bet that the statement applies to
non-accessible attics.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 08/05/05 01:28 pm tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A) I have never heard anyone complain about junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL to the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

It's the "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet" from the City of
Bloomington, MN:

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/hand...3qcircuits.pdf

Page 1, right-hand column, under heading "Junction Boxes":

"Do not install junction boxes in the attic or conceal them in walls."

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather than outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free to add the clamps.

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would take the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

I'll check the boxes in question. I have already found some weird
electrical stuff in this house, including a couple of instances of wires
joined by twisting copper wire around the untwisted conductors and
insulated with the cap of a "magic marker" and the whole lot taped up.

Thanks.

Perce

Greetings,

I did the unthinkable and called up the city of Bloomington, MN for
clarification. When I asked about the attic box rule the lady said
that they follow the National Electrical Code. I didn't know exactly
what she meant by that answer so I asked her if that meant they had no
rules in addition to the NEC. She said that she wasn't an inspector
and didn't know. None of the inspectors had the time to speak with me
and I was not given the option to hold. I left a voice mail and will
let you know what the inspector says when (if) he calls back.

Hope this helps,
William

" wrote in
message
oups.com...

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 08/05/05 01:28 pm tossed the
following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A) I have never heard anyone complain about
junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL to
the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

It's the "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet"
from the City of
Bloomington, MN:

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/hand...3qcircuits.pdf

Page 1, right-hand column, under heading "Junction
Boxes":

"Do not install junction boxes in the attic or
conceal them in walls."

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather than
outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free
to add the clamps.

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would take
the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a
light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

I'll check the boxes in question. I have already
found some weird
electrical stuff in this house, including a couple
of instances of wires
joined by twisting copper wire around the untwisted
conductors and
insulated with the cap of a "magic marker" and the
whole lot taped up.

Thanks.

Perce

Greetings,

I did the unthinkable and called up the city of
Bloomington, MN for
clarification. When I asked about the attic box rule
the lady said
that they follow the National Electrical Code. I
didn't know exactly
what she meant by that answer so I asked her if that
meant they had no
rules in addition to the NEC. She said that she
wasn't an inspector
and didn't know. None of the inspectors had the time
to speak with me
and I was not given the option to hold. I left a
voice mail and will
let you know what the inspector says when (if) he
calls back.

Hope this helps,
William


Goog going; anxious to hear back! I wonder if "attic"
in a place like Mn means something different than it
means to the rest of us? Either that or some
clarification of the statement is missing. It just
isn't reasonble as it is.

Pop

I've seen local guys come up with some real BS stuff on their own
before. Someone I knew was putting a hot tub on their outside deck.
The electrician went to get a permit to run the wiring. The building
inspector hands him a list of their requirements, some of which came
from BOCA proposals, that were not even adopted. The classic was that
the spa must have a cover capable of supporting two adults for a
rescue. Now that surely ranks as dumber than no junction boxes in an
attic. I mean, do these guys even know what a hot tub/spa is? I've
seen a lot of them, even large ones at hotels, and have yet to see one
where having a cover that would support two people would be in any way
relevant to rescuing anyone from a spa.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I've seen local guys come up with some real BS stuff on their own
before. Someone I knew was putting a hot tub on their outside deck.
The electrician went to get a permit to run the wiring. The building
inspector hands him a list of their requirements, some of which came
from BOCA proposals, that were not even adopted. The classic was that
the spa must have a cover capable of supporting two adults for a
rescue. Now that surely ranks as dumber than no junction boxes in an
attic. I mean, do these guys even know what a hot tub/spa is? I've
seen a lot of them, even large ones at hotels, and have yet to see one
where having a cover that would support two people would be in any way
relevant to rescuing anyone from a spa.


The local yokel crap got so bad around here that the state finally took over
and implemented state wide licensing and standards based strictly on NEC. A
lot of crap disappeared over night.


Colbyt

wrote:
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 08/05/05 01:28 pm tossed the following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A) I have never heard anyone complain about junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL to the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

It's the "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet" from the City of
Bloomington, MN:

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/hand...3qcircuits.pdf

Page 1, right-hand column, under heading "Junction Boxes":

"Do not install junction boxes in the attic or conceal them in walls."

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather than outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free to add the clamps.

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would take the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

I'll check the boxes in question. I have already found some weird
electrical stuff in this house, including a couple of instances of wires
joined by twisting copper wire around the untwisted conductors and
insulated with the cap of a "magic marker" and the whole lot taped up.

Thanks.

Perce

Greetings,

I did the unthinkable and called up the city of Bloomington, MN for
clarification. When I asked about the attic box rule the lady said
that they follow the National Electrical Code. I didn't know exactly
what she meant by that answer so I asked her if that meant they had no
rules in addition to the NEC. She said that she wasn't an inspector
and didn't know. None of the inspectors had the time to speak with me
and I was not given the option to hold. I left a voice mail and will
let you know what the inspector says when (if) he calls back.

Hope this helps,
William

Greetings,

I had not heard back from the city so I called them up again. "All
lines were busy." I waited on hold for about 4 minutes and spoke to
the operator. She wanted to know which electrical inspector I wanted
to speak with and I told her that any of them would do. Then she asked
me what region of Bloomington it concerned and I said all of them. She
then asked me where the property was located and I said that my
question concerned a "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet" and not a
particular property. She seemed perturbed by my insistence that any
electrical inspector would do but eventually she gave up and said that
she would put me into someone's voicemail. At this point I was
disconnected. I guess it is not too late to hear back today from my
call placed Friday so I'll hold off until tomorrow before calling them
back.

Hope this helps,
William

" wrote in
message
oups.com...

wrote:
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 08/05/05 01:28 pm tossed the
following ingredients
into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

A) I have never heard anyone complain about
junction boxes within an
attic. It is not an NEC rule. What is the URL
to the document? Where
(what page?) does the document say this.

It's the "Circuits and Wiring Information Sheet"
from the City of
Bloomington, MN:

http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/hand...3qcircuits.pdf

Page 1, right-hand column, under heading "Junction
Boxes":

"Do not install junction boxes in the attic or
conceal them in walls."

B) Some boxes have cable clamps INSIDE rather
than outside. You might
have run across such a box. Otherwise feel free
to add the clamps.

PS: If there really aren't any clamps I would
take the time to inspect
the other boxes within the house. Pull out a
light and a receptacle or
two in your investigation as well.

I'll check the boxes in question. I have already
found some weird
electrical stuff in this house, including a couple
of instances of wires
joined by twisting copper wire around the
untwisted conductors and
insulated with the cap of a "magic marker" and the
whole lot taped up.

Thanks.

Perce

Greetings,

I did the unthinkable and called up the city of
Bloomington, MN for
clarification. When I asked about the attic box
rule the lady said
that they follow the National Electrical Code. I
didn't know exactly
what she meant by that answer so I asked her if that
meant they had no
rules in addition to the NEC. She said that she
wasn't an inspector
and didn't know. None of the inspectors had the
time to speak with me
and I was not given the option to hold. I left a
voice mail and will
let you know what the inspector says when (if) he
calls back.

Hope this helps,
William

Greetings,

I had not heard back from the city so I called them
up again. "All
lines were busy." I waited on hold for about 4
minutes and spoke to
the operator. She wanted to know which electrical
inspector I wanted
to speak with and I told her that any of them would
do. Then she asked
me what region of Bloomington it concerned and I said
all of them. She
then asked me where the property was located and I
said that my
question concerned a "Circuits and Wiring Information
Sheet" and not a
particular property. She seemed perturbed by my
insistence that any
electrical inspector would do but eventually she gave
up and said that
she would put me into someone's voicemail. At this
point I was
disconnected. I guess it is not too late to hear
back today from my
call placed Friday so I'll hold off until tomorrow
before calling them
back.

Hope this helps,
William


Thanks; keep us posted. This is really a curious one.
It sounds like one about has to camp on their doorstep
to get anythiung done in that town.

Pop