I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw (cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Neither sounds like a good option. The saw will be a neater cut, but still
a mess. Are you sure it is 8" thick? If it is less, like 3 or 4", you can
score the outside perimeter with a circular saw and abrasive blade and then
break out the center. Heavy hard work though, but a little more
controllable on the dust flying compared tot he big machines. Still a mess.

Did either contractor talk about dust partitions?
TB

I cut a trench in my house to house an electrical conduit to service an
outlet in the middle of the room. I built a small dust partition using
2x4's and visqueen that covered up the immediate area to be cut. I cut a
slit in the visqueen for my hand and put the circular saw inside this
"house" if you will. It was slow going and needless to say, quite a bit of
dust still escaped. Overall however, I think I did reduce the dust by a
significant amount. I let it all settle and then gave the room a good
clean up. Not sure if you can do the same but rather than dragging an oil
leaking, noisy, heavy jackhammer in, I'd sure consider cutting with a dry
blade.
Cheers,
cc

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw
(cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and
shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed
in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this
to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

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Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400, "miamicuse"
wrote:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab
in my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust
in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls. The
saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he told me
"imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud puddle"...this
does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to minimize
dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?


Been there. Worst plumbing job I had was when I replaced cast iron
DWV in a laundromat w/concrete floor. Had to dig a ditch. Hired a
helper and used two jackhammers. Couldn't fool around - had to get
the job done.

A 90 lb hammer is definitely faster, because you ain't taking a 3x3
foot slab out in one piece, anyway. The hammer on the concrete,
and acetylene on the rebar. There is going to be dust. Wet saw will
minimize the airborne dust, but will make much mud. Very messy,
and worse to clean up.

Yes, they should hang dust curtains and use positive ventilation.
This keeps the mess in the work area.

Of course, you could chisel it out by hand... ;-



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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

There is no new technology to cut through concrete? No laser beam cutter or
something along that line?

MC



"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400, "miamicuse"
wrote:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab
in my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust
in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls. The
saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he told me
"imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud puddle"...this
does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to minimize
dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?


Been there. Worst plumbing job I had was when I replaced cast iron
DWV in a laundromat w/concrete floor. Had to dig a ditch. Hired a
helper and used two jackhammers. Couldn't fool around - had to get
the job done.

A 90 lb hammer is definitely faster, because you ain't taking a 3x3
foot slab out in one piece, anyway. The hammer on the concrete,
and acetylene on the rebar. There is going to be dust. Wet saw will
minimize the airborne dust, but will make much mud. Very messy,
and worse to clean up.

Yes, they should hang dust curtains and use positive ventilation.
This keeps the mess in the work area.

Of course, you could chisel it out by hand... ;-



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=zSTg
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

No. What is a dust partition? Both of them told me if I need to minimize
mess I need to do something myself.

MC

wrote in message
ups.com...
Did either contractor talk about dust partitions?
TB

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw
(cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and
shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed
in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this
to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

If this structure was built as a residence then I will bet that the floor is
4 inches max. Last time my plumbing leaked under the floor I got some fiber
and diamond blades for my "crappy" circular saw. I call it crappy cause I
only use it for crappy jobs. Kept the area damp which helped hold down the
dust. Took most of Saturday to get though enough that the 16 pound sledge
could do the rest.
Any way you go there is going to be a mess.

The plans in the city says 8". I am not positively sure. Probably will run
into rebars?

MC

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Neither sounds like a good option. The saw will be a neater cut, but
still
a mess. Are you sure it is 8" thick? If it is less, like 3 or 4", you
can
score the outside perimeter with a circular saw and abrasive blade and
then
break out the center. Heavy hard work though, but a little more
controllable on the dust flying compared tot he big machines. Still a
mess.

In alt.home.repair on Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400 "miamicuse"
posted:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw (cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Not saying this is good but it's better than nothin'. When I sanded
my parquet floors, I put an old 21? inch fan in the window, and left
it running all the time, including after I stopped. The goal was to
get the air out before the dust settled. About an hour after I
finished, the fan "sputtered" to a stop, never to work again. Worked
out perfectly.


(Another time I was trying to fix a 4HP outboard motor, in the
bathtub. Put a 21? inch fan in the window and a big fan in the
doorway, both blowing in the same direction of course. It still only
took 20 seconds for the room to fill with smoke, but that was better
than the 10 seconds I got otherwise.)



Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:35:10 -0400, meirman
wrote:

In alt.home.repair on Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400 "miamicuse"
posted:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw (cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

An oxygen - iron "burning bar" torch will melt concrete. This was one
way of cutting marble in a quarry. You can see one in action by
renting the old James Caan Movie "Thief". It probably creates more
problems than mere "dust" however.

Beachcomber

miamicuse wrote:
There is no new technology to cut through concrete? No laser beam
cutter or something along that line?

Sorry, those are in the weapons of mass destruction catagory; i.e.,
nonexistent.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

miamicuse wrote:
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw (cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC



I had my basement floor sawed. He sprayed the whole damn basement.
WTF? he could have used a drop cloth or somethin. Eventually discovered
the stuff was in the furnace and causing it to not function as well.

What a mess. And even after they use the saw, they will probably have
to jack hammer a bit to get the concrete out anyway. And those clean
cuts don't heal as well, at least in my case.

However, the cleanliness will depend on the quality/self-respect of the
people you hire no doubt.


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

miamicuse wrote:
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in
my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust
in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls. The
saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he told me
"imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud puddle"...this does
not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to minimize dust and
mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

Think later. After the job you have a repaired sewer line and, above it,
some dirt and a 3x3x1' plug of concrete.

What keeps the plug from settling?

I'd tunnel. Small children work cheap.

miamicuse wrote:

The plans in the city says 8". I am not positively sure. Probably will run
into rebars?


If you want to check the thickness you can drill a hole through the sab
with a masonry bit. A metal detecting stud finder would probably find
rebar. If not rebar, it might have steel mesh (probably not the right
word) maybe #12 wire on 6" centers at 90° with welded crossings.

Bud--

Nasa might help you on that one...

Or maybe the DOD has a satellite for that... Just give
them the GPS position.... LOL

Make sure its that thick... If its only 4" you can do it all yourself.

Get a drill and verify the thickness. 8" thick, get someone else to
go at it. 4" will only take a few hours and is a good workout.

I broke up my basement floor to put in sewer lines. Not a bad job.

If you want a real clean cut.....
Use a circular saw with an abrasive blade (get two they are cheap)

Put up plastic liners around all the openings and open the window.

A nice fan will be ok in the window

Score it and cut a little bit in, This will give you a nice clean line.

Use a sledge hammer or something similar to break it up.
If you want to make it even nices, drill holes all the way through in
a sort of grid pattern. When you break it up, the cracks will form
from those lines.

Yes, there is, it is called a plasma torch. About 10 feet long with intense
flames coming out the end. It is used in demolition to slice through
concrete and steel. Not much good for a 3 foot square in the middle of a
finished room though!


"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
There is no new technology to cut through concrete? No laser beam cutter
or
something along that line?

MC



"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400, "miamicuse"
wrote:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab
in my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust
in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls. The
saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he told me
"imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud puddle"...this
does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to minimize
dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?


Been there. Worst plumbing job I had was when I replaced cast iron
DWV in a laundromat w/concrete floor. Had to dig a ditch. Hired a
helper and used two jackhammers. Couldn't fool around - had to get
the job done.

A 90 lb hammer is definitely faster, because you ain't taking a 3x3
foot slab out in one piece, anyway. The hammer on the concrete,
and acetylene on the rebar. There is going to be dust. Wet saw will
minimize the airborne dust, but will make much mud. Very messy,
and worse to clean up.

Yes, they should hang dust curtains and use positive ventilation.
This keeps the mess in the work area.

Of course, you could chisel it out by hand... ;-



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=zSTg
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

"EXT" etonks@sunstormADD-DOT-COM wrote in message
anews.com...
Yes, there is, it is called a plasma torch. About 10 feet long with
intense
flames coming out the end. It is used in demolition to slice through
concrete and steel. Not much good for a 3 foot square in the middle of a
finished room though!



More commonly known as a "burning bar" or "oxygen lance."

BTW, plasma will not cut concrete.

Steve

"miamicuse" wrote in message
...
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw
(cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and
shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed
in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this
to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

yes. you can get hand wet saws. makita makes one. you hold up a wet/dry near
the cut to remove the water, but you get no dust at all.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w..._ite =Froogle

In alt.home.repair on 28 Jul 2005 09:18:35 -0700
posted:

Nasa might help you on that one...

Or maybe the DOD has a satellite for that... Just give
them the GPS position.... LOL

Don't worry about the ceiling and the roof. They can go right through
that. (You can patch it later.)


Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Well, initially I was going to tunnel, but then many suggested tunneling may
compromise the foundation and footing, so now I am thinking fixing it from
above, but if it will create a mud pond and damage my cabinets, I did not
consider the issue of settling, are you saying the weight will crack the
new PVC pipe? Can I not put sand and compact it before I pour concrete? I
don't know how deep the pipe is though... is this a real concern?

MC

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
miamicuse wrote:
I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in
my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust
in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls. The
saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he told me
"imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud puddle"...this does
not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to minimize dust and
mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?

Thanks,

MC

Think later. After the job you have a repaired sewer line and, above it,
some dirt and a 3x3x1' plug of concrete.

What keeps the plug from settling?

I'd tunnel. Small children work cheap.

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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:41:05 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
wrote:

yes. you can get hand wet saws. makita makes one. you hold up a
wet/dry near the cut to remove the water, but you get no dust at
all.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...roductDisplay?
storeId=6970&productId=200304717&R=200304717&stor eId=6970&langId=%2D1
&cm_ven=Paid%2520Inclusion&cm_cat=Performics&cm_p la=Froogle&cm_ite=Fr
oogle


Cutting up a congrete slab with one of those would be like roasting a
20 pound turkey over bunsen burner.


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:30:52 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote:

miamicuse wrote:
There is no new technology to cut through concrete? No laser beam
cutter or something along that line?

Sorry, those are in the weapons of mass destruction catagory; i.e.,
nonexistent.

Heck, if that's the case, just contact Osama and tell him to drop a
bomb in your kitchen


Jez you guys are brutal...

MC

miamicuse wrote:
The plans in the city says 8". I am not positively sure. Probably will run
into rebars?

If you're in FL (likely with that monniker) and you have an 8" thick
slab, you may have a post-tensioned slab. You do NOT want to go
cutting into that slab willy-nilly.

This from a post a few years ago by DanC:

Dan Jul 2 2003, 2:13 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
From: "Dan" - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:27:07 -0700

You damn well better believe there's a reason NOT TO CUT OR DRILL!
Depending
on the design specs, PT cables can have as little as a few hundred
pounds of
tension on them or as much as hundreds of thousands of pounds of
tension on
them. PT cables are as inherent to the structural strength of the slab
as is
the concrete. While you 'MAY' not see a catastrophic failure by
accidentally
cutting a single cable, you will suffer some design deficiency that may
eventually lead to catastrophic failure. Think of that cable as a big
rubber
band that's stretched to about maximum and then cut. What happens to
the
rubber band, other then it's cut? Uncontrolled release of energy! If
you've
ever seen those 40~ 80 foot post tensioned concrete beams being
transported
down the highways, you'll notice they usually have camber in them.
(Humped
up) Your slab is much the same way. It's a somewhat common practice in
multi
storied structural steel framed buildings utilizing pan slabs.

Were this my house, those doing the work would get & have an engineered
design drawing detailing EXACTLY the procedures required to undertake
this.
None of that freelance BS and shoot from the hip. You haven't lived
till
you've seen a slab or beam blow apart while undergoing PT. Can you say
concrete missiles? (although it is rare)

here is information on different type of sawing

The Wire cutting is something that COULD be really good for your
application if they can drill a hole in 2 places and get the wire
threaded it will be cutting from the bottom this will meal all the dust
and mess will be in the hole rather than the kitchen.

Normally when cutting concrete the "wet" method is used where there is
a steady stream of water on the blade this provides cooling lubrication
and debris removal. You should be able to have plastic put down on all
of the surfaces and the doorways were well as above depending on the
working room they may be able to tent the work area one of the big
things 2 is air pressure.if they reduce the air pressure with a fan
running outside in the work area the dust will not be able to get very
far.

Ask to speak to people who have had the company make holes in their
houses to get an idea of the mess

http://www.cuttingtechnologies.com/c...-coring.html#2

CTI pioneered the use of the diamond cutting techniques shown below.
While each has its own unique advantages, all share an ability to
provide fast, clean and non-destructive removal of virtually any
construction material. If your project requires surgical precision, a
cost-effective alternative, or innovative engineering in sensitive
environments, CTI's cutting and coring techniques are your only choice.




DIAMOND WIRE SAWING

A motorized system of drive and guide wheels pulls a diamond-encrusted
wire around - and ultimately through - the object being cut. To cut
voids from a larger structure, pilot holes are first drilled into the
structure at the ends of each cutting plane. The wire is then fed
through the holes to create the loop that will sever the spoils from
the remaining form.



Typical Materials Cut:

Heavily-reinforced concrete, solid stainless steel and rock.

Cut Sizes:

Limitless dimensions and volume.

Typical Cutting Applications:

Crossovers in extremely thick structures.

Demolition of mass-concrete forms such as dams, towers, piers and
nuclear facilities.

Cutting of structures under water or otherwise inaccessible.

Cutting of fixtures with complex, irregular shapes.

Advantages:

Precise cuts with no over-cutting at corners and smooth finished
surfaces.

Lack of vibration, noise, dust and flying debris enables "clean"
demolition in sensitive and occupied areas.

Controlled cutting leaves remaining structures safely intact.

Quick, versatile, safe and economical alternative to conventional
demolition.



BLADE SAWING

Depending on the need, circular, diamond-tipped blades are mounted onto
a range of power units - from walk-behind slab saws for cutting level
surfaces, to track-mounted wall saws for cutting steep or vertical
inclines, or even handheld units for smaller cuts.


Typical Materials Cut:

Steel-reinforced concrete, pre-cast concrete, asphalt, stone walls and
cobblestone street beds.

Cut Sizes:

Up to 30" deep

Typical Cutting Applications:

Paved surfaces such as roads, runways and bridge decks.

Walls and suspended slabs such as floors and roofs.

Access-way breakthroughs for stairways, elevators, windows and doors.

Trenching and crossovers for mechanical services and cabling.

Advantages:

Precise cuts with smooth finished surfaces

Quick setup and sawing minimizes down time and traffic disruptions.

Variety of power sources to accommodate all available power and exhaust
requirements.

Cutting in confined spaces.



wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400, "miamicuse"
wrote:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab
in my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray
dust in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls.
The saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he
told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud
puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this
to minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a
cleaner procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?

Thanks,

MC


You never yet said what is wrong with the sewer????

Is there a way to make sure it's not PT slab? It's a single story single
family residence, probably unlikely to be PT?

MC

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
miamicuse wrote:
The plans in the city says 8". I am not positively sure. Probably will
run
into rebars?

If you're in FL (likely with that monniker) and you have an 8" thick
slab, you may have a post-tensioned slab. You do NOT want to go
cutting into that slab willy-nilly.

This from a post a few years ago by DanC:

Dan Jul 2 2003, 2:13 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.building.construction
From: "Dan" - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:27:07 -0700

You damn well better believe there's a reason NOT TO CUT OR DRILL!
Depending
on the design specs, PT cables can have as little as a few hundred
pounds of
tension on them or as much as hundreds of thousands of pounds of
tension on
them. PT cables are as inherent to the structural strength of the slab
as is
the concrete. While you 'MAY' not see a catastrophic failure by
accidentally
cutting a single cable, you will suffer some design deficiency that may
eventually lead to catastrophic failure. Think of that cable as a big
rubber
band that's stretched to about maximum and then cut. What happens to
the
rubber band, other then it's cut? Uncontrolled release of energy! If
you've
ever seen those 40~ 80 foot post tensioned concrete beams being
transported
down the highways, you'll notice they usually have camber in them.
(Humped
up) Your slab is much the same way. It's a somewhat common practice in
multi
storied structural steel framed buildings utilizing pan slabs.

Were this my house, those doing the work would get & have an engineered
design drawing detailing EXACTLY the procedures required to undertake
this.
None of that freelance BS and shoot from the hip. You haven't lived
till
you've seen a slab or beam blow apart while undergoing PT. Can you say
concrete missiles? (although it is rare)

Wayne:

Thanks, I called about ten concrete contractors and most use the wet saw.
Cannot find anyone who will do the wire cutting, and someone else suggested
drilling holes at short interval then chisel out by hand may also minimize
dust, can't find anyone to do that either. May be this is a too specialized
and require some high tech contractors? Can't seem to find them if you know
of a link to find such contractors please let me know. Thanks in advance,

MC

"wayne" wrote in message
...
here is information on different type of sawing

The Wire cutting is something that COULD be really good for your
application if they can drill a hole in 2 places and get the wire
threaded it will be cutting from the bottom this will meal all the dust
and mess will be in the hole rather than the kitchen.

Normally when cutting concrete the "wet" method is used where there is
a steady stream of water on the blade this provides cooling lubrication
and debris removal. You should be able to have plastic put down on all
of the surfaces and the doorways were well as above depending on the
working room they may be able to tent the work area one of the big
things 2 is air pressure.if they reduce the air pressure with a fan
running outside in the work area the dust will not be able to get very
far.

Ask to speak to people who have had the company make holes in their
houses to get an idea of the mess

http://www.cuttingtechnologies.com/c...-coring.html#2

CTI pioneered the use of the diamond cutting techniques shown below.
While each has its own unique advantages, all share an ability to
provide fast, clean and non-destructive removal of virtually any
construction material. If your project requires surgical precision, a
cost-effective alternative, or innovative engineering in sensitive
environments, CTI's cutting and coring techniques are your only choice.




DIAMOND WIRE SAWING

A motorized system of drive and guide wheels pulls a diamond-encrusted
wire around - and ultimately through - the object being cut. To cut
voids from a larger structure, pilot holes are first drilled into the
structure at the ends of each cutting plane. The wire is then fed
through the holes to create the loop that will sever the spoils from
the remaining form.



Typical Materials Cut:

Heavily-reinforced concrete, solid stainless steel and rock.

Cut Sizes:

Limitless dimensions and volume.

Typical Cutting Applications:

Crossovers in extremely thick structures.

Demolition of mass-concrete forms such as dams, towers, piers and
nuclear facilities.

Cutting of structures under water or otherwise inaccessible.

Cutting of fixtures with complex, irregular shapes.

Advantages:

Precise cuts with no over-cutting at corners and smooth finished
surfaces.

Lack of vibration, noise, dust and flying debris enables "clean"
demolition in sensitive and occupied areas.

Controlled cutting leaves remaining structures safely intact.

Quick, versatile, safe and economical alternative to conventional
demolition.



BLADE SAWING

Depending on the need, circular, diamond-tipped blades are mounted onto
a range of power units - from walk-behind slab saws for cutting level
surfaces, to track-mounted wall saws for cutting steep or vertical
inclines, or even handheld units for smaller cuts.


Typical Materials Cut:

Steel-reinforced concrete, pre-cast concrete, asphalt, stone walls and
cobblestone street beds.

Cut Sizes:

Up to 30" deep

Typical Cutting Applications:

Paved surfaces such as roads, runways and bridge decks.

Walls and suspended slabs such as floors and roofs.

Access-way breakthroughs for stairways, elevators, windows and doors.

Trenching and crossovers for mechanical services and cabling.

Advantages:

Precise cuts with smooth finished surfaces

Quick setup and sawing minimizes down time and traffic disruptions.

Variety of power sources to accommodate all available power and exhaust
requirements.

Cutting in confined spaces.



wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:29:38 -0400, "miamicuse"
wrote:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab
in my kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he
will use a saw (cost $500). The jackhammer will probably spray
dust in all directions and shake loose some copper pipes in walls.
The saw will make a clean cut according to the contractor but he
told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in a mud
puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this
to minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a
cleaner procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they
will move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may
scratch the tiles along it's path?

Thanks,

MC


You never yet said what is wrong with the sewer????

On 7/27/2005 9:29 PM or thereabouts, miamicuse appears, somewhat
unbelievably, to have opined:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw (cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC




I had a couple of leaks under the slab repaired in my previous home. My
plumber brought a jackhammer and chopped out the hole needed himself in
just a few minutes time. Of course, we're talking about holes that are
somewhat smaller than your 36x36. I replaced the dirt, compacted it to
the best of my ability, and poured ready mix in to patch up the holes.
Then I replaced the broken ceramic tiles and grouted them. No problems
at all after several years. One leak was in the kitchen and the other in
the downstairs half bath.

--
As a child, my parents thought I was an idiot-savant.
Now, however, it is rather clear that I'm simply an idiot.

Dennis Turner wrote:
On 7/27/2005 9:29 PM or thereabouts, miamicuse appears, somewhat
unbelievably, to have opined:

I am exploring cutting a 36"x36" hole through the 8" concrete slab in my
kitchen to access a sewer line for repair.

Called a few concrete contractors and one told me he will use a
jackhammer
to punch the hole (cost $300) and the other told me he will use a saw
(cost
$500). The jackhammer will probably spray dust in all directions and
shake
loose some copper pipes in walls. The saw will make a clean cut
according
to the contractor but he told me "imagine starting a motor cycle
immersed in
a mud puddle"...this does not sound promising. Is there a way to do
this to
minimize dust and mess? I am willing to pay a bit more for a cleaner
procedure.

Also, if they use a saw, does it mean it is a big mean machine they will
move from my door to the kitchen and along the way it may scratch the
tiles
along it's path?

Thanks,

MC




I had a couple of leaks under the slab repaired in my previous home. My
plumber brought a jackhammer and chopped out the hole needed himself in
just a few minutes time. Of course, we're talking about holes that are
somewhat smaller than your 36x36. I replaced the dirt, compacted it to
the best of my ability, and poured ready mix in to patch up the holes.
Then I replaced the broken ceramic tiles and grouted them. No problems
at all after several years. One leak was in the kitchen and the other in
the downstairs half bath.


i had plumbers in my house yesterday. They used jackhammer. Again the
jackhammer proves much cleaner than the saw.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

Ok, this worked for me, no dust whatsoever. First step was to drill lots of holes all the way down the slab to the size I needed to dig out while using a bag vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust from each hole. Then I strongly and securely gaffa taped a piece of MDF board to the ground with a square opening 3 inches bigger on each side than the hole I had to dig out. I only put the gaffa tape around the MDF cut out to make sure it would be easy to take off. Then with good double sided tape I stuck strong clear plastic on the board, 4 inches bigger than the board. Then I made a square bag out of strong clear plastic by double taping it strongly on the one side. I stuck the bottom piece of plastic to the square bag I made making sure there were no air leaks for dust to escape (I used a lot of tape). I put the jack hammer inside my bag and gaffa taped the top plastic all around the jack hammer making sure the vents weren't covered so it wouldn't overheat. I was very careful not to drop it and make holes in the plastic. I then made a hole in the plastic, closer to the bottom, not too high and gaffa taped a rubber kitchen washing glove to the hole so I could use it to take out the rubble from the hole. I had enough space around the bag to dump the rubble. The plastic is clear so for a while you will see clearly through it enough to make an impact on the cement already weakened by the drilled holes. Eventually you can't see through the plastic anymore because of the dust so you need to make every second count. If there is too much dust, let it rest and start again. It worked for me. All I did after was pull all the rubble away from the opening of the hole, let the dust settle, and slowly peel the MDF off the floor by turning the MDF board clockwise, being very carefull not to drop to many particles on the floor. If you do it slowly and patiently you will have no problems. Forgot to mention, once the MDF is no longer stuck to the floor slide another piece of MDF board under it to prevent anything falling out when carrying the whole lot out side. the only thing I would do differently is take the Jackhammer out before picking the whole lot up onto a wheel barrow. Two of us picked it up anyway but it was heavy. I would also add another bag to the side of the main bag to put all the rubble in. Would have made things easier.

--
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