in the space between the inner and outer pipes

a tri-axial pipe? are you advising people to fabricate their own,
or you know a source?

while Nick "MIGHT" actually do
"SOMETHING" "IF" he "SOMEHOW" decides to stop ****ing in the wind.

Nick's job is not distributing existing products. Retarded children
could do that.

Nor even to actually physically produce working prototypes of his
ideas. Average engineering students could do that.

Nick's job is seeing what's NOT there... hearing the dog which DIDN'T
bark.

Nick stands out like a sore thumb, because most of the people with
Nick's insights, choose to copyright them, or even hold them as trade
secrets. So count your lucky stars that you have access to them for
free.

If you feel they have no value.... no one can force a horse to drink.

wrote:
in the space between the inner and outer pipes

a tri-axial pipe? are you advising people to fabricate their own,
or you know a source?

Is it so difficult to fabricate such a thing? Take two single-walled
flue pipes of different enough diameters and place one inside the other.
Space them apart using bent pieces of metal or spring clips made from
coat hangers or the like.

Anthony

wrote:
while Nick "MIGHT" actually do
"SOMETHING" "IF" he "SOMEHOW" decides to stop ****ing in the wind.


Nick's job is not distributing existing products. Retarded children
could do that.

Nor even to actually physically produce working prototypes of his
ideas. Average engineering students could do that.

Nick's job is seeing what's NOT there... hearing the dog which DIDN'T
bark.

Nick stands out like a sore thumb, because most of the people with
Nick's insights, choose to copyright them, or even hold them as trade
secrets. So count your lucky stars that you have access to them for
free.

If you feel they have no value.... no one can force a horse to drink.



As far as can be proven here Nick has never produced anything.

If you want to know about heating without the nonsense talk to the Maine
Wood Heat Co.

Contra flow wood heating was invented in the 1500s as a result of
Europe's first energy crisis.

Nick's post offers nothing new or inventive that has not been done.

wrote:

in the space between the inner and outer pipes

a tri-axial pipe? are you advising people to fabricate their own,
or you know a source?

I'd put a 6"x15' pipe inside an 8" pipe, with the 6" pipe passing through
an 8" T near the end and a 10" 560 cfm fan in a 10" to 8" reducer plugged
into the arm of the T. Room air would flow towards the stove in the space
between the two pipes and exit near the stove.

The stove might have a small muffin fan attached to the door, running at
a low speed (to provide 5 cfm of draft air?) with a room temp thermostat
to increase that speed if more heat is needed.

We might make a condensing chimney with a lot more plain pipe inside
a house and a taller chimney or partially-open stove door to account
for the reduced bouyant force from the cooler chimney.

And use a CO detector, in either case.

Nick

wrote:
wrote:


in the space between the inner and outer pipes

a tri-axial pipe? are you advising people to fabricate their own,
or you know a source?


I'd put a 6"x15' pipe inside an 8" pipe, with the 6" pipe passing through
an 8" T near the end and a 10" 560 cfm fan in a 10" to 8" reducer plugged
into the arm of the T. Room air would flow towards the stove in the space
between the two pipes and exit near the stove.

The stove might have a small muffin fan attached to the door, running at
a low speed (to provide 5 cfm of draft air?) with a room temp thermostat
to increase that speed if more heat is needed.

We might make a condensing chimney with a lot more plain pipe inside
a house and a taller chimney or partially-open stove door to account
for the reduced bouyant force from the cooler chimney.

And use a CO detector, in either case.

Nick



This is some of the best comedy you will ever see.

If one motor is good then two must be better.

Tell us Nick, What is the wall thickness of these pipes?

How much do they weigh?

How do you propose to support this weight?

With the forced air feed to the stove, how hot will the stove end of the
inner pipe get?

How hot can it get before it starts to slump under it's own weight?

Take two single-walled
flue pipes of different enough diameters and place one inside the other

that's a co-axial pipe. A dozen commercial products use it. Flue
gases flow out, exchanging heat with combustion air.

Nick sounded as if (sometimes he posts without proofreading, I can
show you some posts where he confuses the dimensions of thermal
conductivity and thermal conductance) he was proposing a THIRD airflow
that would bring vent air into the living space.... a pipe inside a
pipe, inside a third pipe.

And yes, George, it's not a "new" idea. He didn't claim it was. By the
way, what's YOUR track record vis-a-vis optimizing thermal designs? If
you post half the tutorial material I've learned from Nick, I'll sing
your praises too.

wrote:

Take two single-walled flue pipes of different enough diameters
and place one inside the other

that's a co-axial pipe. A dozen commercial products use it. Flue
gases flow out, exchanging heat with combustion air.

Some gas appliances and pellet stoves work that way.

Nick sounded as if (sometimes he posts without proofreading, I can
show you some posts where he confuses the dimensions of thermal
conductivity and thermal conductance)

Interesting. I don't recall those mistakes. I archive most of my postings at
http://www.ece.villanova.edu/~nick. If you send me a list, I'll fix 'em.

he was proposing a THIRD airflow that would bring vent air into the
living space.... a pipe inside a pipe, inside a third pipe.

No... just 2 pipes, with room air vs outside air flowing back to the
stove in the space between them.

And yes, George, it's not a "new" idea. He didn't claim it was.

It may be new, but it seems obvious to someone "skilled in the art."

By the way, what's YOUR track record vis-a-vis optimizing thermal designs?

George says he's an expert. Let's try an extremely simple test. If 10 cfm
of 70 F combustion air warms to 800 F before it exits a woodstove to enter
a perfect conterflow heat exchanger and 560 cfm of 70 F room air enters
the other end, what's the temperature of the room air at the other end
of the heat exchanger?

Anyone can answer, but it would be fun to let George give it a try first.

Nick

wrote:
wrote:


Take two single-walled flue pipes of different enough diameters
and place one inside the other

that's a co-axial pipe. A dozen commercial products use it. Flue
gases flow out, exchanging heat with combustion air.


Some gas appliances and pellet stoves work that way.


Nick sounded as if (sometimes he posts without proofreading, I can
show you some posts where he confuses the dimensions of thermal
conductivity and thermal conductance)


Interesting. I don't recall those mistakes. I archive most of my postings at
http://www.ece.villanova.edu/~nick. If you send me a list, I'll fix 'em.


he was proposing a THIRD airflow that would bring vent air into the
living space.... a pipe inside a pipe, inside a third pipe.


No... just 2 pipes, with room air vs outside air flowing back to the
stove in the space between them.


And yes, George, it's not a "new" idea. He didn't claim it was.


It may be new, but it seems obvious to someone "skilled in the art."

It seems quite clear that Nick thinks it it "new" also "obvious" and the
fact that he is "skilled in the art"

By the way, what's YOUR track record vis-a-vis optimizing thermal designs?


George says he's an expert. Let's try an extremely simple test. If 10 cfm
of 70 F combustion air warms to 800 F before it exits a woodstove to enter
a perfect conterflow heat exchanger and 560 cfm of 70 F room air enters
the other end, what's the temperature of the room air at the other end
of the heat exchanger?

Where did I claim to be an expert, Nick. I asked you some very simple,
practical questions,

Remember this part;

Tell us Nick, What is the wall thickness of these pipes?

How much do they weigh?

How do you propose to support this weight?

With the forced air feed to the stove, how hot will the stove end of the
inner pipe get?

How hot can it get before it starts to slump under it's own weight?


Anyone can answer, but it would be fun to let Nick give it a try first.

You can see how Nick works. He just doesn't answer the questions.

All the theory in the world is not worth a pair of fetid dingos kidneys
if it is not practicable.

Now, I could go to the trouble of changing Nicks units to SI units, Dig
out the relevant books and answer Nicks question. Might even get it
right. Nah, it would be a pointless exercise.

The question is this: Is Nicks little day dream practicable.

Come on Nick. Is it practicable? Have you done this? Does it really work?

I'll give you a hint. It does work. It was as noisy as all get out. When
the contra flow fan was not running it was cooking in the heat rising up
from the stove.

In the end the simple solution was a nice quiet fan near the ceiling to
de-stratify the air in the room.

Had I done the maths, the result would have been the same. Not worth the
trouble.

Not a new idea. As obvious as all hell. I have the skill to build it.

Would I do it again? NO.

I opted for a Masonry Contra flow stove for heating. And no motors.

George Ghio wrote:
It was as noisy as all get out. When
the contra flow fan was not running it was cooking in the heat rising up
from the stove.

"I took one stab at it, it didn't work out perfectly, so I gave
up. I don't have persistence enough to be bothered. I went and bought
a commerically-available product"

The unwashed masses do draw a conclusion at whatever point they got
too tired to think anymore.

The Homeowners Hub site is not a help forum.
It's an *advertising* forum that invades real
forums (like "alt.home.repair", part of
"usenet") parasitically in order to generate
free advertising for itself, which continually
advances its search engine placement, thereby
increasing its own revenue through its click-
through advertising commissions.

So the first thing you should do is write them
an email and tell them to quit spamming.

Then try to find your way here through proper
channels. Please do a google search on "Usenet"
and post the regular way.

You do realize this post was from two years ago?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"FanInstaller"
wrote in message
roups.com...
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...tor-14244-.htm
FanInstaller wrote:
If you have your original owners manual and receipt for your
Leslie Locke
attic fan you may be entitled to a free motor replacement.
Some of the