Hi All,

A bit tricky refrigerator problem. Unit is 12 years old Sears (made by GE)
top freezer. Symptoms are that it starts and cools for a while, but stops
and does not restart. Compressor quite hot - can hold finger on it for 4
sec. All fans are running. Coils clean.

Sounds like overload, but why is it overloading? How hot should the
compressor case get in normal operation? Could a bad run capacitor cause
that?

Rich

"RichK" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

A bit tricky refrigerator problem. Unit is 12 years old Sears (made by
GE)
top freezer. Symptoms are that it starts and cools for a while, but stops
and does not restart. Compressor quite hot - can hold finger on it for 4
sec. All fans are running. Coils clean.

Sounds like overload, but why is it overloading? How hot should the
compressor case get in normal operation? Could a bad run capacitor cause
that?

Rich




In order:

No one here can tell you, but it might be due to age, and worn winding
insulation, bushing wear on armature...etc
As hot as it needs to be to work.
IF it had a run cap, yes, a start cap, no...most have a START cap.

"RichK" wrote in message ...
Hi All,

A bit tricky refrigerator problem. Unit is 12 years old Sears (made by GE)
top freezer. Symptoms are that it starts and cools for a while, but stops
and does not restart. Compressor quite hot - can hold finger on it for 4
sec. All fans are running. Coils clean.

Sounds like overload, but why is it overloading? How hot should the
compressor case get in normal operation? Could a bad run capacitor cause
that?

Rich


This is Turtle.

About 10 to 15 years ago G/E and also Kenmore had a recall of all G/E
refigerators with the rotory compressor on them. more than half was not told
because of bad reporting by sales points as to telling the customer to get their
compressor changed out for nothing. the Problem was the compressor would go
ineffeciant or not pumping good enough and cause problem with it running.

now that the Refrigerator are over the 5 year warranty on them . they don't have
to replace the compressor but will offer you $100.00 coupon on any other G/E
appliance that you may choose.

Call the G/E Hot line and give model and serial number and see if they are still
giving out the coupons for new appliances. i have not called in a few years and
G/E may have decided to forget about the coupon program , but it's still a good
try for it.

Now G/E was always good for having shell leaks of freon to deal with. So could
be low on freon to give the same effect.

TURTLE

this happened to my dual unit. We defrosted the inside and it turned
out the motor was frozen in about 3 inches of ice. When we defrosted
it, we onlt watched the ice inside the freezer melt, we did not give
enough time for the ice BEHIND the freezer to melt. I would suggest
defrosting it for 1-2 days and letting all the ice melt, inside and
out, and see if that helps.

Does the back of the fridge have a big piece of cardboard, probably with
some fiberglas? Did you put the cardboard back after cleaning?

You mention "all fans running", which should be all two of them.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"RichK" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

A bit tricky refrigerator problem. Unit is 12 years old Sears (made by GE)
top freezer. Symptoms are that it starts and cools for a while, but stops
and does not restart. Compressor quite hot - can hold finger on it for 4
sec. All fans are running. Coils clean.

Sounds like overload, but why is it overloading? How hot should the
compressor case get in normal operation? Could a bad run capacitor cause
that?

Rich

"Stormin Mormon"
Does the back of the fridge have a big piece of cardboard, probably with
some fiberglas? Did you put the cardboard back after cleaning?

You got me :-) No I did not replace the cardboard cover. Still in the
basement somewhere. Did not think it did much, except lower the noise.

You mention "all fans running", which should be all two of them.

Correct.

I banged on the controls (thermostat and deforst timer) area and it seems to
start it.

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "TURTLE"

This is Turtle.

Call the G/E Hot line and give model and serial number and see if they are
still
giving out the coupons for new appliances. i have not called in a few
years and
G/E may have decided to forget about the coupon program , but it's still a
good
try for it.

Now G/E was always good for having shell leaks of freon to deal with. So
could
be low on freon to give the same effect.

Thanks Turtle, will give them a call, it would be nice to get $100 off, if I
have to replace it.

Rich

Hi Steve,

"

In order:

As hot as it needs to be to work.
IF it had a run cap, yes, a start cap, no...most have a START cap.

I peeled a ckt diagram from the back of the unit. It's confusing. The cap
is labeled RUN Capacitor, but it has a PTC (must be Positive Temperature
Coefficient) relay.

To add to the confusion, the "relay" is shown connected to both main and
auxiliary windings. TMK a PTC device only senses the aux winding current
and goes open when it gets hot.

Rich

"RichK" wrote in message
...
Hi Steve,

"

In order:

As hot as it needs to be to work.
IF it had a run cap, yes, a start cap, no...most have a START cap.

I peeled a ckt diagram from the back of the unit. It's confusing. The
cap
is labeled RUN Capacitor, but it has a PTC (must be Positive Temperature
Coefficient) relay.

To add to the confusion, the "relay" is shown connected to both main and
auxiliary windings. TMK a PTC device only senses the aux winding current
and goes open when it gets hot.


The way that one works is that if the start windings heat up, it will open
as well, so thats PROB not your issue.

Reading what you wrote to Stormin, (amazing that guy gets anything right) I
would put your rear cover back and see what the current draw is on the
unit.if you have a signal splitter this is easy, otherwise you need to find
a place where you can clamp on and determine if its drawing more than rated.
If yours is labeled RUN cap, you have a run cap...easy enough.

Rich

"RichK" wrote in message ...

----- Original Message -----
From: "TURTLE"

This is Turtle.

Call the G/E Hot line and give model and serial number and see if they are
still
giving out the coupons for new appliances. i have not called in a few
years and
G/E may have decided to forget about the coupon program , but it's still a
good
try for it.

Now G/E was always good for having shell leaks of freon to deal with. So
could
be low on freon to give the same effect.

Thanks Turtle, will give them a call, it would be nice to get $100 off, if I
have to replace it.

Rich


this is turtle.

The coupon is only good for '''''' any '''''' G/E appliances worth over $100.00
in value. it will work for Driers, washers, or air conditioners.

That Bo Bo cost G/E $90,000,000.00 . It was costing them $480.00 total cost a
piece to change the compressors.

TURTLE

RichK wrote:
Hi Steve,

"


In order:


As hot as it needs to be to work.
IF it had a run cap, yes, a start cap, no...most have a START cap.


I peeled a ckt diagram from the back of the unit. It's confusing. The cap
is labeled RUN Capacitor, but it has a PTC (must be Positive Temperature
Coefficient) relay.

To add to the confusion, the "relay" is shown connected to both main and
auxiliary windings. TMK a PTC device only senses the aux winding current
and goes open when it gets hot.

Rich



A PTC or positive temperature coefficient device is a type of circuit
breaker. Some of the new ones supposedly work as a relay where if one
circuit is overloaded it can break the other circuit.

Another cause of an overworked motor/compressor is low household voltage
or low voltage at the outlet.



--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

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Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:52:57 -0400, "RichK" wrote:

Hi All,

A bit tricky refrigerator problem. Unit is 12 years old Sears (made
by GE) top freezer. Symptoms are that it starts and cools for a
while, but stops and does not restart. Compressor quite hot - can
hold finger on it for 4 sec. All fans are running. Coils clean.

Sounds like overload, but why is it overloading? How hot should the
compressor case get in normal operation? Could a bad run capacitor
cause that?

Rich



If it was overload, it would be cycling on overload
("short-cycling").
Compressors normally run quite hot.
If it runs for a few hours, reaches temperature, then shuts off and
stays off, you probably have a bad defrost timer.


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Stormin brought up a good point--on most refrigerators with a fan forced
condenser under the unit, the cover must be on to get proper air
circulation. On most, the fan draws air over the condenser coil, and
then blows it out over the compressor (even though the air is warmer
than room temp, after going through the condenser, it will still help
keep the compressor cooler. There are some units that this does not
apply to, but it does to most. Put the cover on and try it.
Larry

Hey, I still want my consultation fee!

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"lp13-30" wrote in message
...
Stormin brought up a good point--on most refrigerators with a fan forced
condenser under the unit, the cover must be on to get proper air
circulation. On most, the fan draws air over the condenser coil, and
then blows it out over the compressor (even though the air is warmer
than room temp, after going through the condenser, it will still help
keep the compressor cooler. There are some units that this does not
apply to, but it does to most. Put the cover on and try it.
Larry

Dear Rich,
The way a refrigerator is supposed to work, the fan draws air across the
coils (in) and dumps the hot air across the condensate drain pan (out).
If you leave the cardboard off, the air flow goes in a tiny little
circle. It doesn't draw over the coils, and out over the drain pan. So, the
refrigerator over heats.
Put the cardboard back, and the refrig will cool much better.
There is a theory on usenet that all repair guys are impolite. I wonder
who is feeding that rumor?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"RichK" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon"
Does the back of the fridge have a big piece of cardboard, probably with
some fiberglas? Did you put the cardboard back after cleaning?

You got me :-) No I did not replace the cardboard cover. Still in the
basement somewhere. Did not think it did much, except lower the noise.

You mention "all fans running", which should be all two of them.

Correct.

I banged on the controls (thermostat and deforst timer) area and it seems to
start it.

Rich

I'd suggest replace the cardboard. And then send me the $48.50 consultation
fee, instead of sending it to the impolite fellow.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"RichK" wrote in message
...
Hi Steve,

"

In order:

As hot as it needs to be to work.
IF it had a run cap, yes, a start cap, no...most have a START cap.

I peeled a ckt diagram from the back of the unit. It's confusing. The cap
is labeled RUN Capacitor, but it has a PTC (must be Positive Temperature
Coefficient) relay.

To add to the confusion, the "relay" is shown connected to both main and
auxiliary windings. TMK a PTC device only senses the aux winding current
and goes open when it gets hot.

Rich

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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:19:03 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If you leave the cardboard off, the air flow goes in a tiny
little
circle. It doesn't draw over the coils, and out over the drain pan.
So, the refrigerator over heats.


I don't believe that for a minute.

The rear panel is mainly to keep foreign objects, kids, pets, etc
out of the compartment, as they could obstruct airflow, cause
damage, and the wiring represents a shock hazard. It also cuts down
on noise. For this reason, the rear cover is often insulated .. for
sound.

The condenser fan sits right behind the coil, and has its own shroud
to ensure good airflow.

I have seen people replace missing panels with a plain piece of
cardboard, and it caused overheating, as the original cover had
vent slots punched in it, right behind the compressor, to allow the
hot air to be exhausted right out the back. I have never seen a unit
overheat because of a missing rear panel.




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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:19:03 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'd suggest replace the cardboard. And then send me the $48.50
consultation fee, instead of sending it to the impolite fellow.

Is that how much your wager is, that it isn't the timer? g


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Hey, I still want my consultation fee!

--


Thief, hiding behing a fake religion...

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"lp13-30" wrote in message
...
Stormin brought up a good point--on most refrigerators with a fan forced
condenser under the unit, the cover must be on to get proper air
circulation. On most, the fan draws air over the condenser coil, and
then blows it out over the compressor (even though the air is warmer
than room temp, after going through the condenser, it will still help
keep the compressor cooler. There are some units that this does not
apply to, but it does to most. Put the cover on and try it.
Larry

Naah, I want to get paid either way.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:19:03 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'd suggest replace the cardboard. And then send me the $48.50
consultation fee, instead of sending it to the impolite fellow.

Is that how much your wager is, that it isn't the timer? g


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Dear Johny, the Fridge Doctor disagres with you.


http://www.fridgedoctor.com/fridge-d...integrity.html
Another part that is often deemed unnecessary and in a lot of cases ends up
missing, is the cardboard cover over the compressor housing area at the back
near the floor that sometimes has insulation attached to it. Over time the
attachment holes of the cardboard rip out on one side and because it just a
piece of cardboard, many times it is discarded. However, as stated
previously, this part has a purpose or it simply would not be there. You can
be assured the engineers that designed the refrigerator would not go through
the trouble of making the part and getting it attached it to each and every
unit on the assembly line if it wasn't there for a reason. In a forced air
condenser design, the cardboard deflects the air moved by the fan to cool
the compressor then evaporate the condensate water. On static condenser
designs, the cardboard ensures the compressor operates at its optimum
temperature, directs air flow through the proper channels, and in some cases
serves as an acoustic baffle.


--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:19:03 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If you leave the cardboard off, the air flow goes in a tiny
little
circle. It doesn't draw over the coils, and out over the drain pan.
So, the refrigerator over heats.


I don't believe that for a minute.

The rear panel is mainly to keep foreign objects, kids, pets, etc
out of the compartment,

Incidentally, I want YOU, Johny, to send me 48.50 for customer education.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"~^Johnny^~" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:19:03 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'd suggest replace the cardboard. And then send me the $48.50
consultation fee, instead of sending it to the impolite fellow.

Is that how much your wager is, that it isn't the timer? g


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

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On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:34:50 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Dear Johny, the Fridge Doctor disagres with you.

Let them disagree!

It isn't the first time, and it won't be the last...


http://www.fridgedoctor.com/fridge-d...integrity.html
Another part that is often deemed unnecessary and in a lot of cases
ends up missing, is the cardboard cover over the compressor housing
area at the back near the floor that sometimes has insulation
attached to it. Over time the attachment holes of the cardboard rip
out on one side and because it just a piece of cardboard, many times
it is discarded. However, as stated
previously, this part has a purpose or it simply would not be there.
You can be assured the engineers that designed the refrigerator
would not go through the trouble of making the part and getting it
attached it to each and every unit on the assembly line if it wasn't
there for a reason. In a forced air condenser design, the cardboard
deflects the air moved by the fan to cool the compressor then
evaporate the condensate water. On static condenser designs, the
cardboard ensures the compressor operates at its optimum
temperature, directs air flow through the proper channels, and in
some cases serves as an acoustic baffle.

LOL!

The air is over the compressor before it bounces off the cardboard
"baffle".
Many cardboard "baffles" have a large hole cut out, covered by a wire
mesh, to allow air to exhaust out the back. Front kick plates serve
a similar function, except they are designed more for aesthetics and
to take moderate abuse. They are mainly there for "protection" ...
protection against liability, for one thing (and from foreign
objects being sucked in). But a fixed cardboard cover can only slow
airflow down - it can't increase it. One useful function may be to
direct some warm air over the drip pan to aid in evaporation, but
that's about it. A few models will have a center baffle, especially
certain side-by-side models. This may be important, to create an
air tunnel. But the rear cover? Never in a million years. It has
little to do with airflow, except maybe to aid in evaporation of the
condensate drain water.

Many models with static condensers have no rear panel, because there
are no moving parts to protect against. These models are also
designed with no exposed electrical connections in the rear.

The fridgedoctor guys, among others, must follow protocol, because
omitting any safety cover or device opens them up to a host of
liability issues.

Although I've yet to be sued after some kid reached in and stuck his
hand in the condenser fan...


Like the song says:

"There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys
There's only you and me and we just disagree" -Jim Krueger







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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info