After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

I am not a realtor, or a roofing contractor -- But I do have some ideas
here.

It is not uncommon for 'for sale' homes to have roofing problems.
However, if the roof is bad this is a possible indication that other
maintenance issues may have gone neglected -- It makes me wonder if
other potentially serious maintenance issues are lurking.

I also suspect that any mortgage company worth their salt would insist
that the roof be brought up to good condition before they fund a loan.
Standards may vary but if the roof is leaking now, and it is known and
disclosed by the seller, this is a big red flag to the lender.

If after a careful home inspection you are still interested in the
house, I would insist that the seller fix the roof as a condition of
escrow, with a guarantee on the roof comparable to what you would get if
you hired a roofing contractor yourself. To reiterate: To avoid problems
I would not allow escrow to close until the roof work was complete and
signed off by you (with the aid of a good home inspector.) Make Sure
that the proper permits and inspections have happened before you sign
off, and that work was performed by a licensed contractor.

You will need to specify the repairs to be made in detail in your
contract with the seller. This will help to avoid problems like the
current owner doing a sub standard job on the roof, or refusing to do it
at all, leaving your funds tied up in an escrow that will 'blow up' and
delay your ability to enter into an escrow on a different house. If the
seller refuses, forget about the house and move on.

Make sure that the sale contract specifies enough detail that if a
roofing related problem arises after work is started, or within some
finite time (years?) after the work is completed, the seller (or roofer)
is clearly responsible for paying for repairs to a specified standard.

Here in California older homes often have termite or other sub roofing
issues that are not obvious. This can be aggravated by water damage. A
roofer often does not know the full cost of the job until they do the
demolition work and reveal what is under the existing roof. Roofing
costs often go up beyond the initial estimate for these reasons, even
when dealing with an honest roofing company. You may also end up having
a big rainstorm in the middle of the job, leaving you in a bad
situation. Do you really want to accept this risk or do you want to keep
this risk where I believe it belongs -- with the seller?

You may be able to negotiate a discount on the house, but unless you get
several estimates on the roofing job, AND build in a contingency for
'extras' that might be discovered once work is begun, you are taking a risk.

Another item to consider: Will you have enough cash on hand after escrow
closes, even if you get a discount, to pay for the roof repairs if the
seller does not pay for the repairs out of the escrow? If not, you may
be tempted to put off the repairs and this is a big no-no.


brotherjohn wrote:

After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

(brotherjohn) wrote in message . com...
After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

So the house is priced $3,000 over market and needs a new roof? Clue,
it isn't $3,000 over market it is about $8,000 over market allowing
$5,000 to re-roof it. There are probably a lot of other problems that
need repair. Sounds like a disaster in the making. I for sure would
get a really good house inspection before making a serious offer.

Harry K

(Harry K) wrote in message . com...
(brotherjohn) wrote in message . com...
After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

So the house is priced $3,000 over market and needs a new roof? Clue,
it isn't $3,000 over market it is about $8,000 over market allowing
$5,000 to re-roof it. There are probably a lot of other problems that
need repair. Sounds like a disaster in the making. I for sure would
get a really good house inspection before making a serious offer.

Harry K

If all other houses that have sold in the area were in need of a roof,
he is 3,000 over market.

(books) wrote in message . com...
(Harry K) wrote in message . com...
(brotherjohn) wrote in message . com...
After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

So the house is priced $3,000 over market and needs a new roof? Clue,
it isn't $3,000 over market it is about $8,000 over market allowing
$5,000 to re-roof it. There are probably a lot of other problems that
need repair. Sounds like a disaster in the making. I for sure would
get a really good house inspection before making a serious offer.

Harry K

If all other houses that have sold in the area were in need of a roof,
he is 3,000 over market.

And if pigs had wings they still couldn't fly

Harry K

On 23 May 2004 20:24:28 -0700, (brotherjohn)
wrote:

After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.

The questions you are asking clearly show that you do not have enough
experience or real estate knowledge to do this by yourself.

Get your attorney involved before you sign anything. Repeat, do not sign
anything unless your attorney has given it his approval.

On 23 May 2004 20:24:28 -0700, someone wrote:

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

NOW.

An attorney often can't do much for people after they have already
signed a contract.

Personally, I doubt you will buy this house. Because people here will
instruct you to insist on so many conditions that the Seller will
never go for it. It may be FSBO because he owes close to what it is
worth and can't afford to pay a commission onn the sale, and also he
has no money to fix the roof.

Therefore insisting he fix the roof may be pointless. He will
probably end up selling cheap to someone who will take it "as-is",
figuring the cost of the Buyer doing the roof into the price offered.
And wouldn't most buyers be better off having their hand picked
contractor do the job to last, rather that telling the Seller who
wants out and to spend the least possible money, to do it?


Fixer uppers are bargains for people who know what they are doing and
are willing to TAKE ON SOME RISK. A newbie like you, naw, I doubt you
will buy this house.

-v.

(brotherjohn) wrote in message . com...
After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.



What is the first step?

I noted right off that the house is (IMO) $3,000 over what most houses
in the area are selling for plus the roof is in need of replacement.
The seller was open on the issue of the roof, so I feel they are
expecting the negotiation on that point, but should a roofer be
consulted on replacement cost?

Should I get an appraisal and/or home inspection and let that speak on
the matter of the roof and whatever else may be an issue in price or
should I go ahead and approach the seller on price.

What role does the bank play? Do they require an appraisal?

At what point should I get an attorney involved?

Thanks for any help.


Another issue to consider is insurability. A insurer will make a
cursory inspection of the house before writing a policy and make note
of any obvious deficiencies, such as a failing roof. More than likely
you would be required to repair the roof before a policy is issued. In
some parts of the country, homeowner insurance is harder to get than a
mortgage.

"brotherjohn" wrote...

After several months of not finding a house that I want, I find one
that is for sale by owner. I have never bought a house under these
circumstances and wondered what suggestions OP's on this list might
have on how to proceed here.

What is the first step?

Find a realtor who will assist you, for a fixed fee, with the required
inspections, negotiations, etc. You may find that less costly than trying
out something new on your own.

What might that fee be? Shop around! For reference, though, be aware that
a real estate agent normally gets about 1.5% of the selling price (double
that if [s]he sells hir own listing). For a $100,000 house, that's $1500.
However, the agent will have no advertising or listing expenses, and will
not have to spend a lot of time showing you houses.

I would suggest an up-front portion to help you with the decision, and a
second portion at closing if you buy it.

:................. For reference, though, be aware that
: a real estate agent normally gets about 1.5% of the selling price
(double
: that if [s]he sells hir own listing).


WHAT?
the realtors around here (southern wisconsin) get a lot more than
that!

"rosie" wrote...

:................. For reference, though, be aware that
: a real estate agent normally gets about 1.5% of the selling price
: (double that if [s]he sells hir own listing).


WHAT?
the realtors around here (southern wisconsin) get a lot more than
that!

Nope. I am aware that in some areas commissions are higher or lower than
the norm. However:

A normal commission is 6%. Of that,

1/4 goes to the listing agent's company
1/4 goes to the selling agent's company
1/4 goes to the listing agent
1/4 goes to the selling agent

So, the selling agent gets 1.5%.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:FaKtc.5497$4A6.30@attbi_s52...
"rosie" wrote...

:................. For reference, though, be aware that
: a real estate agent normally gets about 1.5% of the selling price
: (double that if [s]he sells hir own listing).


WHAT?
the realtors around here (southern wisconsin) get a lot more than
that!

Nope. I am aware that in some areas commissions are higher or lower than
the norm. However:

A normal commission is 6%. Of that,

1/4 goes to the listing agent's company
1/4 goes to the selling agent's company
1/4 goes to the listing agent
1/4 goes to the selling agent

So, the selling agent gets 1.5%.

First, your split assumptions are wrong for most agents. The typical agent
will net roughly 2% per half on a 6% commission. The more experienced and
successful the agent, the higher that number goes with the highest hitting
somewhere between 2.4 and 2.5%. Only the newest and least experienced agents
who aren't smart enough to find a good broker are netting no less than 1.4%
but if dealing with a FSBO, that's the last person you want working for you.

But that's all moot, you cannot hire an agent directly -- it just so happens
to be illegal -- so there is no point in worrying about what the split is.
You hire a broker and the typical deal is 6%.

In the current seller's market there may be some discounting on listing
commissions but absolutely no incentive to discount a buyer's agency
commission. In fact, I could justify going higher than 3% especially when
the target property is a FSBO! They are notoriously pains in the ass and the
reality is that the buyer's agent will have to do much of what a seller's
agent would do since the seller has no agent.