We asked a buyer's agent to help find a condo and he agreed to help
"up front" without signing a contract. After a month of looking we
found our own unit and asked the agent to suspend our relationship
until we decided if we wanted the condo. Without telling us, our
agent called the selling agent and negotiated a "referral fee" paid
out of the selling agents commission, assuming we wouldn't care
because it wouldn't affect our price anyway. I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal? Was there a better way to handle it??

I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal?

It certainly didn't effect what the price of the property would be, nor the
commission rate which is set by the brokerage company. Did you get a reduced
commission rate? I doubt it. When you went to look at the property, which
obviously was listed, you should have asked the original agent to take you, or
tell the second agent you were already represented. I wonder how many hours
you spend working for someone without expecting anything in return.
Pat

Working with a buyers agent creates an implied contract, even if you didn't
physically sign anything. YOU tried to pull a fast one on the buyers agent.
He was entitled to the commission even if you found the house on your own.
Is the 3% you can bargin for (and probably wont get anyways) worth your
integrity?

-Jeff


"squinny" wrote in message
om...
We asked a buyer's agent to help find a condo and he agreed to help
"up front" without signing a contract. After a month of looking we
found our own unit and asked the agent to suspend our relationship
until we decided if we wanted the condo. Without telling us, our
agent called the selling agent and negotiated a "referral fee" paid
out of the selling agents commission, assuming we wouldn't care
because it wouldn't affect our price anyway. I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal? Was there a better way to handle it??

(Patscga) wrote in message ...
I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal?

It certainly didn't effect what the price of the property would be, nor the
commission rate which is set by the brokerage company. Did you get a reduced
commission rate? I doubt it. When you went to look at the property, which
obviously was listed, you should have asked the original agent to take you, or
tell the second agent you were already represented. I wonder how many hours
you spend working for someone without expecting anything in return.
Pat

This is new construction of many units, with intensive marketing effort so
the assumption is most buyers will come unrepresented. If buyers come with
representation then the selling agent will share his fixed commission.

As a buyer my price doesn't change but my problem with this is we specifically
asked the buyers agent to step back from the deal (no contract had been
signed), but he went ahead and negotiated a percentage of the sellers
commission as a "referral fee" without telling us. I felt that if there
is going to be a reduced commission then I want it to benefit us,
not a third party that is not even representing us. So I teminated the
relationship with the buyers agent and told the selling agent to instead
apply the amount he had agreed to pay to our closing costs.

Maybe buyers agents use this technique to collect something if it looks
like they're losing out on a commission; it just seems underhanded to me.

"squinny" wrote in message
m...
(Patscga) wrote in message
...
I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal?

It certainly didn't effect what the price of the property would be, nor
the
commission rate which is set by the brokerage company. Did you get a
reduced
commission rate? I doubt it. When you went to look at the property,
which
obviously was listed, you should have asked the original agent to take
you, or
tell the second agent you were already represented. I wonder how many
hours
you spend working for someone without expecting anything in return.
Pat

This is new construction of many units, with intensive marketing effort so
the assumption is most buyers will come unrepresented. If buyers come
with
representation then the selling agent will share his fixed commission.

As a buyer my price doesn't change but my problem with this is we
specifically
asked the buyers agent to step back from the deal (no contract had been
signed), but he went ahead and negotiated a percentage of the sellers
commission as a "referral fee" without telling us. I felt that if there
is going to be a reduced commission then I want it to benefit us,
not a third party that is not even representing us. So I teminated the
relationship with the buyers agent and told the selling agent to instead
apply the amount he had agreed to pay to our closing costs.

Maybe buyers agents use this technique to collect something if it looks
like they're losing out on a commission; it just seems underhanded to me.
==
How much time did your agent spend working for you? Did you offer to
compensate him for his time?
How did you expect him to react when you "terminated" him so you could
negotiate your own discounts with the seller? I agree with a prior
responder--this is a case of "buyer pulling a fast one."
(And I have no connection with the real estate trade.)
==
==

I'm not taking one side or the other but have a few comments. The way
it's worked for me in purchasing new homes, is that you're supposed to
say so, if you're represented by an agent, when you go look at the
home the first time. Not doing so, an agent could lose his or her
commission. The agent in this case may have been falling down on the
job, OR may not have been. Not having a contract is kind of
weird...there should've been one. Might have been a reason the agent
didn't take them to this builder's homes. A good agent would have
helped with the purchase in many more ways than just finding the
home...so if this agent was a good one, the buyer probably just
screwed themselves out of any help of that nature. But, it would not
surprise me one bit if the agent is not being ethical...there are
plenty of those out there, too, and it would certainly bug me to know
such an agent was getting a commission if they had done nothing to get
it.

"Jeff Smith" wrote in message news:RIQTb.17534$tP1.4072@fed1read07...
Working with a buyers agent creates an implied contract, even if you didn't
physically sign anything. YOU tried to pull a fast one on the buyers agent.
He was entitled to the commission even if you found the house on your own.
Is the 3% you can bargin for (and probably wont get anyways) worth your
integrity?

-Jeff


"squinny" wrote in message
om...
We asked a buyer's agent to help find a condo and he agreed to help
"up front" without signing a contract. After a month of looking we
found our own unit and asked the agent to suspend our relationship
until we decided if we wanted the condo. Without telling us, our
agent called the selling agent and negotiated a "referral fee" paid
out of the selling agents commission, assuming we wouldn't care
because it wouldn't affect our price anyway. I felt it removed our
ability to negotiate a reduced commission for ourselves, so I told the
selling agent to cancel the agreement and give us a credit for the
amount. As expected the buyers agent went ballistic. Is this sort of
thing normal? Was there a better way to handle it??

(Frippletoot) wrote in message . com...
I'm not taking one side or the other but have a few comments. The way
it's worked for me in purchasing new homes, is that you're supposed to
say so, if you're represented by an agent, when you go look at the
home the first time. Not doing so, an agent could lose his or her
commission. The agent in this case may have been falling down on the
job, OR may not have been. Not having a contract is kind of
weird...there should've been one. Might have been a reason the agent
didn't take them to this builder's homes. A good agent would have
helped with the purchase in many more ways than just finding the
home...so if this agent was a good one, the buyer probably just
screwed themselves out of any help of that nature. But, it would not
surprise me one bit if the agent is not being ethical...there are
plenty of those out there, too, and it would certainly bug me to know
such an agent was getting a commission if they had done nothing to get
it.

"Jeff Smith" wrote in message news:RIQTb.17534$tP1.4072@fed1read07...
Working with a buyers agent creates an implied contract, even if you didn't
physically sign anything. YOU tried to pull a fast one on the buyers agent.
He was entitled to the commission even if you found the house on your own.
Is the 3% you can bargin for (and probably wont get anyways) worth your
integrity?

-Jeff



I am troubled by the comments that I was unethical. I suppose I should
have paid the buyers agent for time spent up to that point before asking him
to step back. When I tried to pay him afterwards he claimed that he could
not accept payment from anyone he doesn't represent. That is news to me;
I've paid buyers agents before for time spent outside a contract and
there's never been a problem. If this is a new law, I think it encourages
just the kind of trap I fell into.

"squinny" wrote
......................................

"Jeff Smith" wrote in message
news:RIQTb.17534$tP1.4072@fed1read07...
Working with a buyers agent creates an implied contract, even if you
didn't
physically sign anything. YOU tried to pull a fast one on the buyers
agent.
He was entitled to the commission even if you found the house on your
own.
Is the 3% you can bargin for (and probably wont get anyways) worth
your
integrity?

-Jeff



I am troubled by the comments that I was unethical. I suppose I should
have paid the buyers agent for time spent up to that point before asking
him
to step back. When I tried to pay him afterwards he claimed that he could
not accept payment from anyone he doesn't represent.
==
And this payment that you offered him was in lieu of him accepting a fee
from the home seller/builder?
What was the difference in the amount you were offereing and the amount the
seller would have paid him?
(More Below)
==
That is news to me;
I've paid buyers agents before for time spent outside a contract and
there's never been a problem. If this is a new law, I think it encourages
just the kind of trap I fell into.
==
What "trap" do you feel you "fell into?" Who set the trap? I still haven't
seen anything in your story that indicates
inappropriate behavior on the part of the agent. You cut him out without
compensation after he worked for you.
You have not indicated that you were displeased with his efforts prior to
cutting him off--You indicated that you
cut him off so you could negotiate a discount directly with the seller and
not give the agent any compensation. I don't get your point.
==
==

"Gini" wrote in message ...
"squinny" wrote
.....................................

"Jeff Smith" wrote in message
news:RIQTb.17534$tP1.4072@fed1read07...
Working with a buyers agent creates an implied contract, even if you
didn't
physically sign anything. YOU tried to pull a fast one on the buyers
agent.
He was entitled to the commission even if you found the house on your
own.
Is the 3% you can bargin for (and probably wont get anyways) worth
your
integrity?

-Jeff



I am troubled by the comments that I was unethical. I suppose I should
have paid the buyers agent for time spent up to that point before asking
him
to step back. When I tried to pay him afterwards he claimed that he could
not accept payment from anyone he doesn't represent.
==
And this payment that you offered him was in lieu of him accepting a fee
from the home seller/builder?
What was the difference in the amount you were offereing and the amount the
seller would have paid him?
(More Below)
==
That is news to me;
I've paid buyers agents before for time spent outside a contract and
there's never been a problem. If this is a new law, I think it encourages
just the kind of trap I fell into.
==
What "trap" do you feel you "fell into?" Who set the trap? I still haven't
seen anything in your story that indicates
inappropriate behavior on the part of the agent. You cut him out without
compensation after he worked for you.
You have not indicated that you were displeased with his efforts prior to
cutting him off--You indicated that you
cut him off so you could negotiate a discount directly with the seller and
not give the agent any compensation. I don't get your point.

It is true I did not offer to settle up with the buyer's agent until after
we met with the selling agent, and the amount I was prepared to pay for
his time was less than the percentage he was after. He didn't know
that at the time and may have been afraid of being totally stiffed. So
one of my mistakes was not offering compensation immediately, though when
I did he turned it down claiming the "law" which prevents compensation
without representation (but I haven't found any verification of this law).
Another mistake was not telling the agent that we felt he wasn't doing
enough to find a suitable place; two months and no personal showings,
just a dozen emails for us to check out on our own.

The trap is if the law prevents agents from receiving compensation from
unrepresented parties, then my intent to pay them for time spent outside
of a contract is of no value and they would be more motivated to pursue
a percentage based on nebulous grounds like a "referral fee", even
if it is not in my interest for them to do so.

We have probably debated this enough now. I'm sorry the way it ended,
better communication could have saved some gray hair on all of us.

Moral: if you want a buyers agent then sign a contract from day-one;
discuss in advance how to amicably exit the contract and under what
conditions; never leave an agent with the false impression that you
are weaseling out of a deal at their expense-- you'll pay for it somehow.