I am looking at homes in two regions of a certain state.

More southern region: Evidently has no gas pipelines, so
heating of homes is mostly by "electric." Used to be a kind
of hunter's and boater's haven, with I think
spring-summer-fall use only cottages. In the last 15 years,
it's become more developed. The homes are more significant
and many civilized folks (including retirees) live year
round in this area and parts of it resemble suburbia. Also,
occasionally I see a house in this area set up for
"propane." The electric heating scares the heck out of me,
utility bill wise and comfort wise. Is this fear well
placed? Any comments on using propane? (I buy a propane tank
periodically and have a furnace for it, right?)

More northern one: most homes appear to have "Forced air,
gas" heating. Located in and about a medium-sized city. How
do you interpret "forced air, gas" heating? Is this a
combination of electric and gas, or is it the usual gas
furnace common to more northern, more populated locales?

I do not like what I read about heat pumps (and can't buy
into their being more efficient than electric heat) but will
hear out others who feel otherwise.

I sure appreciate your experience and input. I want to be
comfortable in my home without paying an arm and a leg, if
possible.

Electric heating is indeed more expensive to run than gas or
propane. Whether or not it's more or less *comfortable* is an
entirely different question. If it's forced air electric,
i.e., an electric furnace in the basement heating up air that
gets blown through the house, it won't feel any different than
forced air gas. Similarly, radiators with an electric furnace
heating the water or steam won't feel any different from
radiators with a gas furnace doing the heating. However, if
the electric heat is, e.g., baseboard heaters in every room,
that'll be more expensive than a furnace heating air or
radiators, and the heating in each room may not be as even as
with forced air, but probably won't feel much different from
radiators.

Propane will probably be closer in cost to gas than to
electric, but I'm not sure how big the propane tank is or how
often you have to refill it (probably not that often in warm
southern climates). You lose the convenience of the gas
being pumped right into your house.

"Forced air, gas" means a gas furnace transferring heat to
air which is then blown through vents throughout the house.
It's the forced hot air you're used to seeing in the north.

However, some houses may have forced air in some rooms and
electric in other rooms (e.g., our house has electric
baseboard heating in the two attic rooms and one of the
bathrooms, and gas-heated forced hot air in the rest of the
house).

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Jonathan, thanks. Your comments clarified these issues a
lot.

Also suggest you take the time to insulate well as this can make a huge
difference to the bills .I have a mix elec and wood in my cottage and
find exceot in the late fall Sept and Oct do I need the elect in the
night and possible early morning rest of day can be wood ,get a good
woodstove one that is very efficent. Mine will burnat proper settings
for upwards of 6 hrs on 3or4 logs after you get it going . Good Luck
propane is not very good in cold weather
Elle wrote:
Jonathan, thanks. Your comments clarified these issues a
lot.

Thanks Jim. I am not going to go so far from civilization
that a wood burning stove will be necessary. Rather, I
refuse too. I'm too lazy for that these days. OTOH many of
the houses have fireplaces.

I will keep in mind your counsel on propane and start
studying up on the insulation of my next home purchase.

"jim" wrote
Also suggest you take the time to insulate well as this
can make a huge
difference to the bills .I have a mix elec and wood in my
cottage and
find exceot in the late fall Sept and Oct do I need the
elect in the
night and possible early morning rest of day can be wood
,get a good
woodstove one that is very efficent. Mine will burnat
proper settings
for upwards of 6 hrs on 3or4 logs after you get it going .
Good Luck
propane is not very good in cold weather
Elle wrote:
Jonathan, thanks. Your comments clarified these issues a
lot.

"am looking at homes in two regions of a certain state.

More southern region: Evidently has no gas pipelines, so
heating of homes is mostly by "electric." Used to be a kind
of hunter's and boater's haven, with I think
spring-summer-fall use only cottages. In the last 15 years,
it's become more developed. The homes are more significant
and many civilized folks (including retirees) live year
round in this area and parts of it resemble suburbia. Also,
occasionally I see a house in this area set up for
"propane." The electric heating scares the heck out of me,
utility bill wise and comfort wise. Is this fear well
placed? Any comments on using propane? (I buy a propane tank
periodically and have a furnace for it, right?) "


No, you buy the tank that goes outside your house once and then the
propane company comes with a truck and fills it as needed. Haven't
you watched King of the Hill?




More northern one: most homes appear to have "Forced air,
gas" heating. Located in and about a medium-sized city. How
do you interpret "forced air, gas" heating? Is this a
combination of electric and gas, or is it the usual gas
furnace common to more northern, more populated locales?


Forced air doesn't specify the fuel, which typically is either oil,
natural gas, or propane. It just means the furnace uses a blower with
ducting to heat the house.


I do not like what I read about heat pumps (and can't buy
into their being more efficient than electric heat) but will
hear out others who feel otherwise.


What exactly have you heard? It's well established that a heat pump
is far more efficient at heating than using electric. With electric
all you are doing is using the energy in the electric to generate heat
through resistance, like an oven. With a heat pump, the electricitiy
is used to pump heat from outside, to inside. The outside source can
be either air or the earth. Using outside air works well in warm or
moderate climates, say from FL to Wash DC area. Geothermal works well
in any climate, but is more expensive to install, so it's best suited
for colder areas. Air based heat pumps usually have electric heat as a
backup option for the days when it is really cold, 30. One thing is
for sure, and that is heat pump systems are energy efficient. If they
were not, you would never see them installed vs electric systems, as
they cost a lot more. Another advantage is you are getting AC at the
same time.

jim wrote:
propane is not very good in cold weather

That is BS. Most people in here in Minnesota who don't get natural gas
use propane, even way up north.

"WDS" wrote:

That is BS. Most people in here in Minnesota who don't get natural gas
use propane, even way up north.

I would bet not. Many people use the term propane for bottle gas. Actual propane
does not work very well in cold climates, so in Wisconsin, Minnesota, North
Dakota, etc, what is used is a butane mixture.

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
"WDS" wrote:

That is BS. Most people in here in Minnesota who don't get natural gas
use propane, even way up north.

I would bet not. Many people use the term propane for bottle gas. Actual propane
does not work very well in cold climates, so in Wisconsin, Minnesota, North
Dakota, etc, what is used is a butane mixture.

How does propane "not work very well" in cold climates?

BTW, I happen to be in Grand Marais this week (look on a map of
northern Minnesota on the Lake Superior shore) and everyone uses
propane.

"WDS" wrote in news:1155788233.107611.104230
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

How does propane "not work very well" in cold climates?

Propane's boiling point is -43 degrees F. If it gets that cold outside,
then your propane will just sit there in the tank and never feed any vapour
to your furnace. Butane is even worse, since its boiling point is at a
balmy +31 degrees.

A propane/butane mix isn't a good idea in northern climes:
http://www.adventurenetwork.com/cgi-...ne_Butane.html

Murray Peterson wrote:
"WDS" wrote in news:1155788233.107611.104230
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

How does propane "not work very well" in cold climates?

Propane's boiling point is -43 degrees F. If it gets that cold outside,
then your propane will just sit there in the tank and never feed any vapour
to your furnace. Butane is even worse, since its boiling point is at a
balmy +31 degrees.

Well, my propane furnace works just fine at -43 and even colder. I
sent an email off to the guys who deliver my propane so maybe they can
answer.

wrote
E
(I buy a propane tank
periodically and have a furnace for it, right?) "


No, you buy the tank that goes outside your house once and
then the
propane company comes with a truck and fills it as needed.
Haven't
you watched King of the Hill?

No, sir.

Regardless, I like the concept.

More northern one: most homes appear to have "Forced air,
gas" heating. Located in and about a medium-sized city.
How
do you interpret "forced air, gas" heating? Is this a
combination of electric and gas, or is it the usual gas
furnace common to more northern, more populated locales?


Forced air doesn't specify the fuel, which typically is
either oil,
natural gas, or propane. It just means the furnace uses a
blower with
ducting to heat the house.

Okie-doke.

I do not like what I read about heat pumps (and can't buy
into their being more efficient than electric heat) but
will
hear out others who feel otherwise.


What exactly have you heard?

The archives seems to have about ten reports of the things
not heating the house adequately for every one report that
it does.

It's well established that a heat pump
is far more efficient at heating than using electric.
With electric
all you are doing is using the energy in the electric to
generate heat
through resistance, like an oven. With a heat pump, the
electricitiy
is used to pump heat from outside, to inside. The
outside source can
be either air or the earth. Using outside air works well
in warm or
moderate climates, say from FL to Wash DC area.
Geothermal works well
in any climate, but is more expensive to install, so it's
best suited
for colder areas. Air based heat pumps usually have
electric heat as a
backup option for the days when it is really cold, 30.
One thing is
for sure, and that is heat pump systems are energy
efficient. If they
were not, you would never see them installed vs electric
systems, as
they cost a lot more. Another advantage is you are
getting AC at the
same time.

I'll study this more.

Thanks for the input.

"WDS" wrote:


How does propane "not work very well" in cold climates?

Whoops. Had it backwards. Was recalling what a supplier told me once. Propane or
a propane blend works a bit better in very cold climates.

"WDS" wrote in
ups.com:


Murray Peterson wrote:
"WDS" wrote in news:1155788233.107611.104230
@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

How does propane "not work very well" in cold climates?

Propane's boiling point is -43 degrees F. If it gets that cold
outside, then your propane will just sit there in the tank and never
feed any vapour to your furnace. Butane is even worse, since its
boiling point is at a balmy +31 degrees.

Well, my propane furnace works just fine at -43 and even colder. I
sent an email off to the guys who deliver my propane so maybe they can
answer.


If it works fine, then you either have some form of waste heat keeping the
tank warmed, or you need a new thermometer. There were several winters in
my childhood where my father had to put insulation around the propane tank
and an electric heater underneath to keep our furnaces running.

The reason I don,t like propane is for the amount of gas used to heat
the plenum which is in cold weather alot more than NG and it is
operating at less pressure the colder it gets . Also it can be hard to
ignite at 25 below if the building has got cold.
WDS wrote:
jim wrote:
propane is not very good in cold weather

That is BS. Most people in here in Minnesota who don't get natural gas
use propane, even way up north.