Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget
for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. I don't plan to have a buyer's agent. Will that shift some of the work to the attorney, such as for instance, writing up the offer? Or would the listing agent write up the offer, subject to review by my attorney? Also, I'm looking for recommendations for an attorney and a home inspector in Louisville, KY. I've already asked a few friends what attorney they used when they purchased their house, but not one of them had their own lawyer. -- Tony Sivori |
#2
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori wrote:
I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. I don't plan to have a buyer's agent. Will that shift some of the work to the attorney, such as for instance, writing up the offer? Or would the listing agent write up the offer, subject to review by my attorney? Also, I'm looking for recommendations for an attorney and a home inspector in Louisville, KY. I've already asked a few friends what attorney they used when they purchased their house, but not one of them had their own lawyer. We are in the process of buying our first home, all we're waiting for now is the mortgage approval and to close. We are using both a buyers' agent and a lawyer. The buyers' agent will get paid by the sellers, and I appreciate very much having her around, as she has handled a lot of phone calls, paperwork, as well as guiding us through the process, including writing the offer, scheduling inspection, etc. Not sure how much of that would be handled by the lawyer. The lawyer we have specializes in real estate, handles approval of the contract, title, etc. We called around to get prices and an idea of what they cover. Many were not specialists in real estate, and charged in the vicinity of $500 which may or may not have covered all the documents which might need processing depending on the particulars of the case. (Meaning possible extra charges on top of an initial fee.)The guy we got as I said specializes in real estate and charges a $400 package price for all documents involved and handles the transaction form the initial offer through closing. I liked this guy in particular because he himself took the time to get on the phone with me during my initial inquiry. -Karen- |
#3
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Firstly, make sure that whatever lawyer you hire is experienced and works
with real estate. You will pay more if you purchase privately and have the lawyer either review or draw up the Agreement. How much you'll pay depends on how much service you will need. Bear in mind that if you're buying privately, you'll be paying him for every offer you make. If an offer falls through due to a poor inspection report, financing or other issues, you'll still have to pay the lawyer. If you go the private route, you may want to budget for a couple of offers. Tony Sivori ) writes: I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. I don't plan to have a buyer's agent. Will that shift some of the work to the attorney, such as for instance, writing up the offer? Or would the listing agent write up the offer, subject to review by my attorney? Also, I'm looking for recommendations for an attorney and a home inspector in Louisville, KY. I've already asked a few friends what attorney they used when they purchased their house, but not one of them had their own lawyer. -- Tony Sivori |
#4
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Natalie Munro wrote: Firstly, make sure that whatever lawyer you hire is experienced and works with real estate. You will pay more if you purchase privately and have the lawyer either review or draw up the Agreement. How much you'll pay depends on how much service you will need. Bear in mind that if you're buying privately, you'll be paying him for every offer you make. If an offer falls through due to a poor inspection report, financing or other issues, you'll still have to pay the lawyer. If you go the private route, you may want to budget for a couple of offers. Tony Sivori ) writes: I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. I don't plan to have a buyer's agent. Will that shift some of the work to the attorney, such as for instance, writing up the offer? Or would the listing agent write up the offer, subject to review by my attorney? Also, I'm looking for recommendations for an attorney and a home inspector in Louisville, KY. I've already asked a few friends what attorney they used when they purchased their house, but not one of them had their own lawyer. -- Tony Sivori NJ area $600 is typical. The sell side may be $100 less or so than buy side. |
#5
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori writes:
I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. I don't plan to have a buyer's agent. Will that shift some of the work to the attorney, such as for instance, writing up the offer? Or would the listing agent write up the offer, subject to review by my attorney? Also, I'm looking for recommendations for an attorney and a home inspector in Louisville, KY. I've already asked a few friends what attorney they used when they purchased their house, but not one of them had their own lawyer. Depends on the geography, but in Chicago, $300-$500 is typical for a purchase transaction for a real estate attorney. At least here in Illinois, whether you have a buyers agent or not, someone is going home and pocketing a buyer's agent commission on agent listed property. If you use a buyers agent, the buyers agent will help you with the offer. If you don't use a buyers agent, the selling agent will provide you minesterial acts in filling out the blanks in the offer letter, and you have a 5 or 10 day attorney's review time window after the offer is accepted to fix all the bending over that happened there. :-) If you're looking at listed property, you have nothing to lose with a buyer's agent. Some might argue that if the listing agent sells the property without another agent involved, the total selling+buying agent commission is often less than otherwise, which would lead a seller perhaps to have a lower bottom line, but in my experience, the local knowledge of home values is such that a good buyers agent can overcome that, and actually net you a lower purchase price based on their knowledge of what competing properties in the area have sold for, and how this particular home stacks up to the usual. So, my advice would be to both get an attorney for review of whatever contract/offer you submit, and to have a buyer's agent on your side to draw up the offer and to add the value of local knowledge to your purchase process. I would try to avoid however, signing a contract with a buyer's agent in the event you come upon a for sale by owner property that you want to play on. Buyers agents can be troublesome in FSBO's because not all sellers of FSBO's are wiling to pay for the agent's commission, and you will usually end up paying more for the house than had you come in without a buyers agent. Some buyers agents will work with a handshake and trust, others won't work without an exclusive contract. Just be sure to do your moral part and take an agent for a ride by having them show you 20 houses, and then you go off and buy a fsbo or something. Be respectful of their time. Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ |
#6
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori writes: I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. We have purchased homes in two states (CT and VT). In both cases, we paid around $600. for the lawyer. |
#7
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
dkhedmo wrote:
We are in the process of buying our first home, all we're waiting for now is the mortgage approval and to close. We are using both a buyers' agent and a lawyer. The buyers' agent will get paid by the sellers, and I appreciate very much having her around, as she has handled a lot of phone calls, paperwork, as well as guiding us through the process, including writing the offer, scheduling inspection, etc. I just don't see them doing $3000 worth of work on a sale of a $100,000 house. The guy we got as I said specializes in real estate and charges a $400 package price for all documents involved and handles the transaction form the initial offer through closing. I liked this guy in particular because he himself took the time to get on the phone with me during my initial inquiry. Sounds like a reasonable price. -- Tony Sivori |
#8
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Natalie Munro wrote:
Firstly, make sure that whatever lawyer you hire is experienced and works with real estate. Yeah, I'm looking through the yellow pages and only making the ones that list real estate. Obviously, I don't need an ambulance chaser, civil right s attorney, or a criminal defense lawyer. Bear in mind that if you're buying privately, you'll be paying him for every offer you make. If an offer falls through due to a poor inspection report, financing or other issues, you'll still have to pay the lawyer. If you go the private route, you may want to budget for a couple of offers. Yikes, I hadn't thought of that. Hopefully, the earlier in the process I get out, the less he or she would charge. -- Tony Sivori |
#9
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Todd H. wrote:
At least here in Illinois, whether you have a buyers agent or not, someone is going home and pocketing a buyer's agent commission on agent listed property. I have hopes of getting the listing agent to take less than the full 6%, how the "extra" 3% would be split would be negotiable. Perhaps 1.5% between the seller and myself. After all, if the listing agent balked, I could just get an agent of my own and the listing agent would be right back at 3%. If you use a buyers agent, the buyers agent will help you with the offer. If you don't use a buyers agent, the selling agent will provide you minesterial acts in filling out the blanks in the offer letter, and you have a 5 or 10 day attorney's review time window after the offer is accepted to fix all the bending over that happened there. :-) I'd have the attorney look at the offer before I signed it. If you're looking at listed property, you have nothing to lose with a buyer's agent. Some might argue that if the listing agent sells the property without another agent involved, the total selling+buying agent commission is often less than otherwise, which would lead a seller perhaps to have a lower bottom line, but in my experience, the local knowledge of home values is such that a good buyers agent can overcome that, and actually net you a lower purchase price based on their knowledge of what competing properties in the area have sold for, and how this particular home stacks up to the usual. I just don't see it. I know what I'm willing to pay, and I am a fair yet firm negotiator. If a deal is made, fine. If not, there are other houses. So, my advice would be to both get an attorney for review of whatever contract/offer you submit, and to have a buyer's agent on your side to draw up the offer and to add the value of local knowledge to your purchase process. I would try to avoid however, signing a contract with a buyer's agent in the event you come upon a for sale by owner property that you want to play on. Buyers agents can be troublesome in FSBO's because not all sellers of FSBO's are wiling to pay for the agent's commission, and you will usually end up paying more for the house than had you come in without a buyers agent. This is one of the reasons I definitely don't want to sign a contract with a buyer's agent. Some buyers agents will work with a handshake and trust, others won't work without an exclusive contract. Just be sure to do your moral part and take an agent for a ride by having them show you 20 houses, and then you go off and buy a fsbo or something. Be respectful of their time. Heh, I assume this is either humor, or you inadvertently left the word "don't" out of the middle sentence of the above paragraph. -- Tony Sivori |
#10
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tracey wrote:
Tony Sivori writes: I'm buying a house, probably in the next 90 days. How much I should budget for an attorney? I know I don't have to have one, but I want an attorney to watch out for my interests from start to finish. We have purchased homes in two states (CT and VT). In both cases, we paid around $600. for the lawyer. I hope they are less expensive here in the Midwest. -- Tony Sivori |
#11
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori wrote:
Todd H. wrote: At least here in Illinois, whether you have a buyers agent or not, someone is going home and pocketing a buyer's agent commission on agent listed property. I have hopes of getting the listing agent to take less than the full 6%, how the "extra" 3% would be split would be negotiable. That would be in the contract between the seller and their agent, wouldn't it? When we entered into a contract with our selling agent, it said how much we would pay the agent (in our case, 5%) and how she would split it with the buyer agent. If there isn't a buyer agent, I suppose she could split it with the buyer if she wanted. Perhaps 1.5% between the seller and myself. After all, if the listing agent balked, I could just get an agent of my own and the listing agent would be right back at 3%. Isn't this "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? You're still not getting any "extra" money. What's the point? |
#12
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Some buyers agents will work with a handshake and trust, others won't work without an exclusive contract. Just be sure to do your moral part and take an agent for a ride by having them show you 20 houses, and then you go off and buy a fsbo or something. Be respectful of their time. Heh, I assume this is either humor, or you inadvertently left the word "don't" out of the middle sentence of the above paragraph. -- Tony Sivori So, what's he supposed to do if he finds a FSBO on his own? Make sure the seller lists it with the agent before he buys it so he can pay more? If he happens to find a FSBO that the agent had nothing to do with, that's just the way it happens some time. Unless he's signed a contract with the agent, he's under no moral or legal obligation to cut the broker in. The broker didn't find the house, he did. |
#13
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori ) writes:
Todd H. wrote: So, my advice would be to both get an attorney for review of whatever contract/offer you submit, and to have a buyer's agent on your side to draw up the offer and to add the value of local knowledge to your purchase process. I would try to avoid however, signing a contract with a buyer's agent in the event you come upon a for sale by owner property that you want to play on. Buyers agents can be troublesome in FSBO's because not all sellers of FSBO's are wiling to pay for the agent's commission, and you will usually end up paying more for the house than had you come in without a buyers agent. This is one of the reasons I definitely don't want to sign a contract with a buyer's agent. This could turn into a big and costly mistake for you. Agency is about representation of interests. The listing agreement is about the interests of the seller and the buyer agreement is about the interests of the buyer. The Buyer Representation Agreement here (Ontario, Canada) can be written to exclude private sales. In a case where you are not in a buyer agreement with a realtor and you want to buy a listed property, the listing agent is required to hold the interests of the seller in priority. This is not to say that he/she will be out to screw you, but they would be under no obligation to represent your interests by say, telling you about true market value of the property. I have a client who did this exact thing on his last purchase and his property still isn't worth nearly what he paid for it 3 years ago. Now if you end up wanting to buy a FSBO from a seller who won't pay commission, and you've thought to alter your Buyer Representation Agreement to exclude that type of purchase, then you're into the same kind of position - no-one is representing you and things like fair market value, future uses of abutting land/buildings, etc. are not going to be researched or explained to you. It's possible that your lawyer may be able to fill in some blanks, but it's going to cost you plenty even if you end up not buying the property. Whatever money you may think that you're saving on a commission (which is generally paid by the seller) could turn into peanuts quite quickly. |
#14
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori writes:
Some buyers agents will work with a handshake and trust, others won't work without an exclusive contract. Just be sure to do your moral part and take an agent for a ride by having them show you 20 houses, and then you go off and buy a fsbo or something. Be respectful of their time. Heh, I assume this is either humor, or you inadvertently left the word "don't" out of the middle sentence of the above paragraph. You are correct. I inadvertently left out the "not" -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ |
#15
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori writes:
Todd H. wrote: At least here in Illinois, whether you have a buyers agent or not, someone is going home and pocketing a buyer's agent commission on agent listed property. I have hopes of getting the listing agent to take less than the full 6%, how the "extra" 3% would be split would be negotiable. You're kidding yourself I'm afraid. What the agent will make is already determined by the listing agreement contract between the realtor and the seller. The norm around here is that the listing agent if they sell it without another realtor involved, gets 4.5% paid by the seller. Some charlatans write listings with hte full 6% though. You don't have a way of knowing. Whether the seller is thinking big picture bottom line or not, you can never tell. I'd have the attorney look at the offer before I signed it. This is great legal protection, but has two downsides. By opting to do it this way, you're paying the attorney whether or not the offer gets accepted. Also you add lag time -- the house might get another contract before your attorney turns it around and gets it sent out. If your attonrey is a busy real estate type and you're shopping for houses around the end of the month, this can become an issue. I just don't see it. I know what I'm willing to pay, and I am a fair yet firm negotiator. If a deal is made, fine. If not, there are other houses. What is what you're willing to pay is more than you should pay in a given area? How is your negotiating demeanor? Might your emotions get you into a corner where you'll alienate a seller, but a more suave and smooth buyers agent might be able to attract more flies with sugar than with vinegar? This is one of the reasons I definitely don't want to sign a contract with a buyer's agent. Yeah, contracts with buyers agents suck, on this we agree. -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ |
#16
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Natalie Munro wrote:
Tony Sivori ) writes: This is one of the reasons I definitely don't want to sign a contract with a buyer's agent. This could turn into a big and costly mistake for you. [...] In a case where you are not in a buyer agreement with a realtor and you want to buy a listed property, the listing agent is required to hold the interests of the seller in priority. Of course. This is not to say that he/she will be out to screw you, but they would be under no obligation to represent your interests by say, telling you about true market value of the property. I have a client who did this exact thing on his last purchase and his property still isn't worth nearly what he paid for it 3 years ago. Which is why I'll be paying for an inspection and appraisal. Now if you end up wanting to buy a FSBO from a seller who won't pay commission, and you've thought to alter your Buyer Representation Agreement to exclude that type of purchase, then you're into the same kind of position - no-one is representing you and things like fair market value, future uses of abutting land/buildings, etc. are not going to be researched or explained to you. I'm capable of checking setback ordinances, and I intend to have a survey, certified to me. Whatever money you may think that you're saving on a commission (which is generally paid by the seller) could turn into peanuts quite quickly. Well, maybe. But I remain unconvinced. -- Tony Sivori |
#17
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Todd H. wrote: Tony Sivori writes: Todd H. wrote: At least here in Illinois, whether you have a buyers agent or not, someone is going home and pocketing a buyer's agent commission on agent listed property. I have hopes of getting the listing agent to take less than the full 6%, how the "extra" 3% would be split would be negotiable. You're kidding yourself I'm afraid. What the agent will make is already determined by the listing agreement contract between the realtor and the seller. The norm around here is that the listing agent if they sell it without another realtor involved, gets 4.5% paid by the seller. Some charlatans write listings with hte full 6% though. You don't have a way of knowing. But realtors have certainly been known to cut their take to make a deal happen, regardless of what their agreement says. And if it's a case where the whole deal is done by the lising agency, where they would be getting the entire 6%, this is much more likely to happen, because they have more to work with. And it's more likely now, with a market that has cooled off. If the buyer is a shrewd negotiator, it's entirely possible. Whether the seller is thinking big picture bottom line or not, you can never tell. I'd have the attorney look at the offer before I signed it. This is great legal protection, but has two downsides. By opting to do it this way, you're paying the attorney whether or not the offer gets accepted. Also you add lag time -- the house might get another contract before your attorney turns it around and gets it sent out. If your attonrey is a busy real estate type and you're shopping for houses around the end of the month, this can become an issue. So, what's the alternative? Sign a contract with no review? That can be OK for someone who knows what they are doing, but is a good way to get screwed for someone who is clueless. Some states provide a short window, like 3 days for attorney review after the signing, during which time either party can cancel the contract without cause. I just don't see it. I know what I'm willing to pay, and I am a fair yet firm negotiator. If a deal is made, fine. If not, there are other houses. What is what you're willing to pay is more than you should pay in a given area? How is your negotiating demeanor? Might your emotions get you into a corner where you'll alienate a seller, but a more suave and smooth buyers agent might be able to attract more flies with sugar than with vinegar? At the end of the day, a buyer's agent is no substitute for due diligence on the part of the buyer. A buyer's agent still has a conflict of interest. It's not their money and they want to get paid which usually only occurs when a sale is made, don't they? So, they have an incentive to see the buyer close a deal quickly and without regard to cost or anything else. And I've seen enough real estate agents that were total idiots that I'm not very impressed with their skills as a group. That's not to say there aren't real good ones, but finding one is another isssue. This is one of the reasons I definitely don't want to sign a contract with a buyer's agent. Yeah, contracts with buyers agents suck, on this we agree. -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ |
#19
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Natalie Munro wrote:
Well, the inspection is a great idea at any rate. The appraiser will give you a value. It may not be market value, but it can be reasonably close. It had better be *very* close. That's what I'm paying for. Not to be confused with the bank's appraiser, who only concerns themselves with the value of the house covering the loan and cost of foreclosure in the event of foreclosure. I don't know about the US states, but up here in Canada surveys are hugely expensive and are rarely used now on residential properties. Interesting. Any idea why? Just how expensive are they? Here in the States, surveys are routine, indeed essentially unavoidable unless you're paying cash. Assuming a rectangular lot, they are only a few hundred dollars. Title insurance is considerably less expensive and much more comprehensive. Please discuss title insurance with your lawyer. I will definitely have title insurance. -- Tony Sivori |
#20
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
Tony Sivori ) writes:
Natalie Munro wrote: Well, the inspection is a great idea at any rate. The appraiser will give you a value. It may not be market value, but it can be reasonably close. It had better be *very* close. That's what I'm paying for. Not to be confused with the bank's appraiser, who only concerns themselves with the value of the house covering the loan and cost of foreclosure in the event of foreclosure. An appraiser will give you an *opinion* on the value of the property. Try to get someone who is familiar with the neighbourhood. I don't know about the US states, but up here in Canada surveys are hugely expensive and are rarely used now on residential properties. Interesting. Any idea why? Just how expensive are they? I don't know anymore how much a survey would cost now for typical urban residential. More rural properties can run up into thousands. Title insurance is less expensive and can include protection against mortgage and title fraud, a growing menace. Title insurance originated in the US. Apparently the system of land registry was so poor that Something Needed To Be Done. Here in Canada, we have had two systems of land registry and now (of course) everything is being ported into an computer system. Title insurance is considerably less expensive and much more comprehensive. Please discuss title insurance with your lawyer. I will definitely have title insurance. I just knew that we'd end up on the same page eventually! |
#21
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
In article ,
Tony Sivori wrote: I don't know about the US states, but up here in Canada surveys are hugely expensive and are rarely used now on residential properties. Interesting. Any idea why? Just how expensive are they? Here in the States, surveys are routine, indeed essentially unavoidable unless you're paying cash. Assuming a rectangular lot, they are only a few hundred dollars. Surveys are not really routine in the USA. I don't know anyone who bought a house who had one done. Maybe they are more common wherever it is that you live. Dimitri |
#22
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
(D. Gerasimatos) writes:
Surveys are not really routine in the USA. I don't know anyone who bought a house who had one done. Maybe they are more common wherever it is that you live. Obviously this one varies across the US. For instance, you can't transfer property here in Illinois without a survey, to the best of my knowledge. Home I sold in Texas also had surveys done at each transaction, and not because I demanded them or anything. They cost a few hundred bucks here. -- -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net/ |
#23
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
In article , Todd H. wrote:
(D. Gerasimatos) writes: Surveys are not really routine in the USA. I don't know anyone who bought a house who had one done. Maybe they are more common wherever it is that you live. Obviously this one varies across the US. For instance, you can't transfer property here in Illinois without a survey, to the best of my knowledge. Home I sold in Texas also had surveys done at each transaction, and not because I demanded them or anything. They cost a few hundred bucks here. In California, we rely on the assessor's maps. You can obviously do a survey if you wish to. Dimitri |
#24
Posted to misc.consumers.house
|
|||
|
|||
How much for a lawyer when buying a house?
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Buying a house in a non-disclosure state | Home Ownership | |||
Buying house underpinned in 1992, can you suggest a good insurer ? | UK diy | |||
Why buy a house? | Home Ownership | |||
Buying a new house PMI or PiggyBack | Home Ownership | |||
buying a house with Weyerhaeuser siding | Home Repair |