In most cased, who owns the property between the street and a fence?

The houses on our street have the front doors facing one street, and if
you drive around the block to the other side, the back fences are up
against the other street, similar to an alley way, but it's a normal
paved and named city street.

In other words, whereas many more suburban and/or newer neighborhoods
have the following setup:

street-house-yard--fence-yard-house-street,

these are single with it being

street---house--yard--fence--street.

with narrower blocks overall. It's an older neighborhood.

Most of the homes have separated detached garages up against the back
fence. Some have back entrance driveways or back entrance gates in
these fences.

Clear as mud?

Okay, so between the back fences and the street there is a few feet of
grass (no sidewalks).. and I want to know who owns that patch of
property in most cities.

The crabby old woman who lives next door approached me today to
complain because back in November, when the city did brush pickup, I
placed my brush on this strip of property. She says it's her property
and I'm not allowed to do that... and all I did was add my brush to
some other brush already piled up there (small pile) that I assume she
had put there. Mind you, I've never met her and this was the first
time she'd approached me.

I did so because it made sense to just make one medium sized pile
instead of 2 little ones, and because we only have street parking here
and all other logical spots were either places where people normally
park cars, or would have blocked a driveway or something similar.
Following all regulations, I placed the brush pickup out there when I
was supposed to and it was out there for a max of 48 hours before the
city picked it up.

I just looked at her like she was nuts and basically blew her off,
because the issue is moot until next brush pickup at least, but I'd
like to be able to tell her she's wrong, if indeed this is not "her"
property after all. She was unnecessarily rude about this and like I
said, it happened four months ago! (ironically she finished her
complaint by saying she "doesn't want problems".. whatever)

During past brush pick-up times, I've noticed people will put brush in
anyone else's brush pile if they've missed their own pick-up in their
neighborhood. Is it actually against the "rules" to put your trash out
next to or along with someone else's trash? Sheesh!


Thanks if you know the answer to this one!

Chris

wrote in message
oups.com...
In most cased, who owns the property between the street and a fence?

(snip)
It depends. In some instances, like a highway, property lines may stop at
the road, but in most subdivisions, even older ones, the street actually
sits on a platted easement across each lot. The easement is almost always
wider than the street, to allow for utility runs and such. Note that the
legal easement may or may not match the actual paving, so don't count on the
center of the street being the property line. Only way to tell for sure is
to look at a plat of the neighborhood, or a plot plan for the houses
involved. And although surveyors now make their working drawings with GPS,
in the old days you sometimes had to go quite a ways to get trusted
benchmarks to work back off of. Subdivisions are famous for 'additive
errors', where each lot is off just a hair, and by the time you get to the
end of the block, you are off an entire wig of hair.

Having said that, even if she owns the land, using it for a staging area for
brush pickup would probably be considered a part of the 'public use' of the
easement. But IANAL, and this would seem to fall into the category of
battles not worth fighting. Just pile it in front of your place, and let the
old biddy have her way. The guy on the truck really doesn't care- after the
first hour he is numb to it all anyway. (BTDT)

aem sends...

"on it. you should have asked her if you could add your stuff to her
pile.
she probably wouldn't have objected. it would never occur to me to
put my
stuff in a pile at the back of another yard without asking.

you are in the wrong. "


Well, I should clarify that the exact spot where the brush was placed
was really what you could call "in between" her house and mine.
It's all rather vague because all the fences run together along this
back street and clear separations of the property are not evident by
just looking in some areas where the fences are the same material.
Such is the case with her fence and mine. It's not a clear
"fence/space/house/fence/space/house"... it's a big long line of
continuous fencing all the way down the street.


I dunno, I think it's really anal to care whose trash is out there
touching yours, since it's all going to the same place, but that's just
me. I was trying to avoid placing anything where it would block other
people's "normal" parking spots. Older neighborhoods here are
notorious for having NO place to park other than the street. My
other choices would have required people to move their cars when the
pickup occurred.

I think it's even more anal to seek out a neighbor with this issue four
months later, but again, just me.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, it's really odd that she put her
brush there anyway, as she would have had to toss it over the fence to
do so.. she doesn't have a back gate access. I have back gate access
because I live in the rear building on the property (there are two
houses on the lot, one facing the front street and mine, in the back)
and it's the ONLY access I have, so it's essentially this street is my
"front" yard area, while it's "behind" her house and everyone else in
her situation puts their stuff out front for obvious reasons like the
ease of carrying it to the curb as opposed to hauling it over a tall
fence.

Anyway, I'll drop the issue most likely, but it was still annoying to
have her griping at me about this today. She was not at all friendly,
didn't even try something like "Maybe you didn't know..."... she just
started out accusatory.

Chris

"on it. you should have asked her if you could add your stuff to her
pile.
she probably wouldn't have objected. it would never occur to me to
put my
stuff in a pile at the back of another yard without asking.

you are in the wrong. "


Well, I should clarify that the exact spot where the brush was placed
was really what you could call "in between" her house and mine.
It's all rather vague because all the fences run together along this
back street and clear separations of the property are not evident by
just looking in some areas where the fences are the same material.
Such is the case with her fence and mine. It's not a clear
"fence/space/house/fence/space/house"... it's a big long line of
continuous fencing all the way down the street.


I dunno, I think it's really anal to care whose trash is out there
touching yours, since it's all going to the same place, but that's just
me. I was trying to avoid placing anything where it would block other
people's "normal" parking spots. Older neighborhoods here are
notorious for having NO place to park other than the street. My
other choices would have required people to move their cars when the
pickup occurred.

I think it's even more anal to seek out a neighbor with this issue four
months later, but again, just me.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, it's really odd that she put her
brush there anyway, as she would have had to toss it over the fence to
do so.. she doesn't have a back gate access. I have back gate access
because I live in the rear building on the property (there are two
houses on the lot, one facing the front street and mine, in the back)
and it's the ONLY access I have, so it's essentially this street is my
"front" yard area, while it's "behind" her house and everyone else in
her situation puts their stuff out front for obvious reasons like the
ease of carrying it to the curb as opposed to hauling it over a tall
fence.

Anyway, I'll drop the issue most likely, but it was still annoying to
have her griping at me about this today. She was not at all friendly,
didn't even try something like "Maybe you didn't know..."... she just
started out accusatory.

Chris

wrote in message
ups.com...
"on it. you should have asked her if you could add your stuff to her
pile.
she probably wouldn't have objected. it would never occur to me to
put my
stuff in a pile at the back of another yard without asking.

you are in the wrong. "


Well, I should clarify that the exact spot where the brush was placed
was really what you could call "in between" her house and mine.
It's all rather vague because all the fences run together along this
back street and clear separations of the property are not evident by
just looking in some areas where the fences are the same material.
Such is the case with her fence and mine. It's not a clear
"fence/space/house/fence/space/house"... it's a big long line of
continuous fencing all the way down the street.

you should know where your property lines are. check the plat.






I dunno, I think it's really anal to care whose trash is out there
touching yours, since it's all going to the same place, but that's just
me. I was trying to avoid placing anything where it would block other
people's "normal" parking spots. Older neighborhoods here are
notorious for having NO place to park other than the street. My
other choices would have required people to move their cars when the
pickup occurred.

I think it's even more anal to seek out a neighbor with this issue four
months later, but again, just me.


Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, it's really odd that she put her
brush there anyway, as she would have had to toss it over the fence to
do so.. she doesn't have a back gate access. I have back gate access
because I live in the rear building on the property (there are two
houses on the lot, one facing the front street and mine, in the back)
and it's the ONLY access I have, so it's essentially this street is my
"front" yard area, while it's "behind" her house and everyone else in
her situation puts their stuff out front for obvious reasons like the
ease of carrying it to the curb as opposed to hauling it over a tall
fence.

Anyway, I'll drop the issue most likely, but it was still annoying to
have her griping at me about this today. She was not at all friendly,
didn't even try something like "Maybe you didn't know..."... she just
started out accusatory.



Chris

You put your refuse on someone else's pile, without asking.

Una

You should check with your local government, or at least look up your land
survey to find out what is yours and what is not. In many areas the persons
property is defined and runs up to the road allowance which in many areas is
66 feet wide (I think this is an old survey measurement known as a chain.
This 66 feet is owned by the town, city, county, etc., and the road runs
down the middle, off to the side would be telephone and electricity poles or
underground feeds along with sewers, gas lines cable TV lines and anything
else needed.

I notice in my area new people who buy development houses often think their
land extends to the road curb and will plant bushes and even install
fencing. They get upset when snow plows damage such items or when utility
crews have to dig up something on the edge of the road and remove their
fence or bushes. They don't realize they don't own all the way to the curb,
and usually not even to the sidewalk.

"ameijers" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
In most cased, who owns the property between the street and a fence?

(snip)
It depends. In some instances, like a highway, property lines may stop at
the road, but in most subdivisions, even older ones, the street actually
sits on a platted easement across each lot. The easement is almost always
wider than the street, to allow for utility runs and such. Note that the
legal easement may or may not match the actual paving, so don't count on
the
center of the street being the property line. Only way to tell for sure
is
to look at a plat of the neighborhood, or a plot plan for the houses
involved. And although surveyors now make their working drawings with GPS,
in the old days you sometimes had to go quite a ways to get trusted
benchmarks to work back off of. Subdivisions are famous for 'additive
errors', where each lot is off just a hair, and by the time you get to the
end of the block, you are off an entire wig of hair.

Having said that, even if she owns the land, using it for a staging area
for
brush pickup would probably be considered a part of the 'public use' of
the
easement. But IANAL, and this would seem to fall into the category of
battles not worth fighting. Just pile it in front of your place, and let
the
old biddy have her way. The guy on the truck really doesn't care- after
the
first hour he is numb to it all anyway. (BTDT)

aem sends...

wrote:
"on it. you should have asked her if you could add your stuff to her
pile.
she probably wouldn't have objected. it would never occur to me to
put my
stuff in a pile at the back of another yard without asking.

you are in the wrong. "


Well, I should clarify that the exact spot where the brush was placed
was really what you could call "in between" her house and mine.
It's all rather vague because all the fences run together along this
back street and clear separations of the property are not evident by
just looking in some areas where the fences are the same material.
Such is the case with her fence and mine. It's not a clear
"fence/space/house/fence/space/house"... it's a big long line of
continuous fencing all the way down the street.


I dunno, I think it's really anal to care whose trash is out there
touching yours, since it's all going to the same place, but that's just
me. I was trying to avoid placing anything where it would block other
people's "normal" parking spots. Older neighborhoods here are
notorious for having NO place to park other than the street. My
other choices would have required people to move their cars when the
pickup occurred.

I think it's even more anal to seek out a neighbor with this issue four
months later, but again, just me.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, it's really odd that she put her
brush there anyway, as she would have had to toss it over the fence to
do so.. she doesn't have a back gate access. I have back gate access
because I live in the rear building on the property (there are two
houses on the lot, one facing the front street and mine, in the back)
and it's the ONLY access I have, so it's essentially this street is my
"front" yard area, while it's "behind" her house and everyone else in
her situation puts their stuff out front for obvious reasons like the
ease of carrying it to the curb as opposed to hauling it over a tall
fence.

Anyway, I'll drop the issue most likely, but it was still annoying to
have her griping at me about this today. She was not at all friendly,
didn't even try something like "Maybe you didn't know..."... she just
started out accusatory.

Chris


Who generally owns something isn't going to help you. If you really
want to know, you need to look at a survey of your property. But I
don't think it really matters. It sounds like you have plenty of space
to put brush directly behind your fence and not add it to a pile that
is behind the neighbors house.

I'm sure the way she handled it wasn't the best way. But the simplest
and right thing to do here is put your stuff where there is no question
it's not on her property. In my neighborhood, no one places brush for
pickup in any place other than the area by their own property.

There is only one solution for a neighbor such as this. Paint your house
purple!

If there are other neighbors on the other side of her with teenagers, might
want to buy a used drum set and electric guitar and give it to them. Say you
no longer need it. Hopefully they will form a band and practice in their
garage!

In article .com,
says...

In most cased, who owns the property between the street and a fence?

The houses on our street have the front doors facing one street, and if
you drive around the block to the other side, the back fences are up
against the other street, similar to an alley way, but it's a normal
paved and named city street.

In other words, whereas many more suburban and/or newer neighborhoods
have the following setup:

street-house-yard--fence-yard-house-street,

these are single with it being

street---house--yard--fence--street.

with narrower blocks overall. It's an older neighborhood.

Most of the homes have separated detached garages up against the back
fence. Some have back entrance driveways or back entrance gates in
these fences.

Clear as mud?

Okay, so between the back fences and the street there is a few feet of
grass (no sidewalks).. and I want to know who owns that patch of
property in most cities.

The crabby old woman who lives next door approached me today to
complain because back in November, when the city did brush pickup, I
placed my brush on this strip of property. She says it's her property
and I'm not allowed to do that... and all I did was add my brush to
some other brush already piled up there (small pile) that I assume she
had put there. Mind you, I've never met her and this was the first
time she'd approached me.

I did so because it made sense to just make one medium sized pile
instead of 2 little ones, and because we only have street parking here
and all other logical spots were either places where people normally
park cars, or would have blocked a driveway or something similar.
Following all regulations, I placed the brush pickup out there when I
was supposed to and it was out there for a max of 48 hours before the
city picked it up.

I just looked at her like she was nuts and basically blew her off,
because the issue is moot until next brush pickup at least, but I'd
like to be able to tell her she's wrong, if indeed this is not "her"
property after all. She was unnecessarily rude about this and like I
said, it happened four months ago! (ironically she finished her
complaint by saying she "doesn't want problems".. whatever)

During past brush pick-up times, I've noticed people will put brush in
anyone else's brush pile if they've missed their own pick-up in their
neighborhood. Is it actually against the "rules" to put your trash out
next to or along with someone else's trash? Sheesh!


Thanks if you know the answer to this one!

Chris



This is kinda like parking in the street.

Sure, the street belongs to all, and you can park your car in front of your
neighbor, and of course in some circumstance (like folks having a party) you end
up putting you car in front of your neighbor because there are cars in front of
yours. But, gee whiz, for everyday circumstances, life is simpler if folks only
have to look at *their* car when looking out the front window, and folks do feel
some 'ownership' over land which affects them more directly than their neighbor,
so folks generally are careful to park their cars in front of their own houses.

Likewise, it would behoove you to put your trash in the back of your house. All
this stuff about making two piles vs. making one pile just doesn't seem to
matter much. When you look out your back window or are hanging out in your
back yard, look at your own brush pile. Don't make your neighbor look at a
bigger brush pile. Whatever the property lines down at the town hall say.

OK? Peace.

Banty

On 6 Mar 2006 17:48:38 -0800, someone wrote:

I did so because it made sense to just make one medium sized pile
instead of 2 little ones....

Didn't Arlo Guthrie get in trouble for following a similar idea in
"Alice's Restaurant"???

What's the big deal, go make your own pile. I think YOU are the nut.
Even if it's City property it is still rude to put your trash (even
brush trash) in front of someone else's house, someone you don't even
know.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

wrote

Thanks if you know the answer to this one!

Chris

The answer is clear, you're nuttier than a fruit cake, the woman does have
a crazy neighbor. If it's not such a big deal, why don't you put your trash
in front of your own place?

I hope she chases you down the street with one of those sticks, and beats
the day lights out of you.