You think you have problems with high gasoline prices....

Lately I've seen some stations which usually have the lowest price for gas,
charging higher prices than other stations. Then I realized why they might
be doing this....

I think gas station underground storage tanks hold around 30,000 gallons?

If they are paying $2.50 a gallon, that would be $75,000.00 to fill their
tanks!

Then if the price goes up to $2.70 a gallon for their price, that would
then be $81,000.00 to fill their tanks.

Or an additional expense for them of $6,000.00!

Then you get a large grocery store chain which also sells gas - has 150
stores. That would be an additional $900,000.00 they would need to come up
with if the price increased 20 cents per gallon!

I read that some gas stations only make as little as 4 cents a gallon. So
if they sold 30,000 gallons of gas, then they would only make $1,200.00.

So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a profit,
but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill their tanks at a
much higher price next time. Thus I would think they will need to collect
*now* the amount of money they will need to pay when they fill up their
tanks in the future???

Sounds like a cash flow nightmare....

"Bill" writes:
So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a profit,
but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill their tanks at a
much higher price next time. Thus I would think they will need to collect
*now* the amount of money they will need to pay when they fill up their
tanks in the future???

Yes, gas stations generally raise their prices in anticipation
of how much it'll cost them for the next delivery. That is,
the price you pay is usually based on how much the station
thinks gas is *going to* cost, not how much they paid for the
gas you're pumping.

Jonathan Kamens wrote:
"Bill" writes:

So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a profit,
but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill their tanks at a
much higher price next time. Thus I would think they will need to collect
*now* the amount of money they will need to pay when they fill up their
tanks in the future???


Yes, gas stations generally raise their prices in anticipation
of how much it'll cost them for the next delivery. That is,
the price you pay is usually based on how much the station
thinks gas is *going to* cost, not how much they paid for the
gas you're pumping.

Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

George Grapman writes:
Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

Yes, because of market pressures -- if they don't, some other
gas station will and will sell more gas.

Of course, different stations respond to the market pressures
at different speeds.

George Grapman wrote:
Bill wrote:
You think you have problems with high gasoline prices....

Lately I've seen some stations which usually have the lowest price for gas,
charging higher prices than other stations. Then I realized why they might
be doing this....

I think gas station underground storage tanks hold around 30,000 gallons?

If they are paying $2.50 a gallon, that would be $75,000.00 to fill their
tanks!

Then if the price goes up to $2.70 a gallon for their price, that would
then be $81,000.00 to fill their tanks.

Or an additional expense for them of $6,000.00!

Then you get a large grocery store chain which also sells gas - has 150
stores. That would be an additional $900,000.00 they would need to come up
with if the price increased 20 cents per gallon!


You don't think they get terms from the distributor?

You might be surprised. COD terms are not uncommon in independent
station operations.

Think Costco or
Walmart pay up front?

I don't know the details, but depending on how they buy, they may very
well be paying up front

Also many brand name gas stations do not own the the land. It is
owned by the gasoline company and the station pays rent based on the
number of gallons sold.

Many branded stations are billed immediately for their fuel deliveries
- often electronically.


I read that some gas stations only make as little as 4 cents a gallon. So
if they sold 30,000 gallons of gas, then they would only make $1,200.00.

So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a profit,
but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill their tanks at a
much higher price next time. Thus I would think they will need to collect
*now* the amount of money they will need to pay when they fill up their
tanks in the future???

Sounds like a cash flow nightmare....

Bill wrote:
You think you have problems with high gasoline prices....

Lately I've seen some stations which usually have the lowest price for gas,
charging higher prices than other stations. Then I realized why they might
be doing this....

I think gas station underground storage tanks hold around 30,000 gallons?

If they are paying $2.50 a gallon, that would be $75,000.00 to fill their
tanks!

I saw a TV news story on this. I forget which network. They said
that these smaller independent gas stations -- the ones that usually
have bargain prices -- operate by looking for deals and buying excess
gas from the major gas companies. But the "majors" (as this particular
analyst called them), when there are shortages, will favor their own
chain of retail stations over independents who want to buy from them.
They put the independent stations on an allocation based on previous
usage, so that the maximum they can buy is 110% or 120% of what they
bought in some previous time period (same day previous year, same day
previous month, or rolling average over some period like the last
month or quarter).

The bottom line is that these independent bargain stations normally
have low prices because they are picking up surplus here and there
at cut rates. But now there IS no surplus, or not much of it. They
have less flexibility to shop around for low rates, and they also
have less available to them overall, so they are going to buy less
gas at a higher rate and charge a lot more.

The net result is that the independent "bargain" stations are now
charging more than the name-brand major chains. Which probably
sucks for them, but on the other hand, when there are shortages,
people become a lot less price sensitive, so the bargain stations
won't have too much trouble unloading that gas even though they're
charging more than people expect.

- Logan

I asked how big the underground tanks were at a gas station and the guy
told me they could hold 120,000 gallons.

He also said they were only keeping them about 1/3 full lately. Note that
he had a concerned look on his face when he said this.

And just yesterday the prices around here went from the $2.60's to around
$3.00 (over $3.00 for premium and diesel).

I would imagine that they would need to be *very* careful about their
pricing so that they will have enough cash to fill their tanks next time
around... [i.e. cash flow - money invested in their inventory, etc.]

Saw the same thing happen when the price of cigarettes went up quite a bit
suddenly. Many smaller stores reduced their inventory. Big bucks!

Jonathan Kamens wrote:
George Grapman writes:
Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

Yes, because of market pressures -- if they don't, some other
gas station will and will sell more gas.

Of course, different stations respond to the market pressures
at different speeds.

But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
is over.

This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again and
will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Harry K

On 2 Sep 2005 06:40:50 -0700 "Harry K" wrote:

:Jonathan Kamens wrote:
: George Grapman writes:
: Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

: Yes, because of market pressures -- if they don't, some other
: gas station will and will sell more gas.
:
: Of course, different stations respond to the market pressures
: at different speeds.

:But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
:The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
:is over.

1982-1983 ring a bell?

:This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
:$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again and
:will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Just how old are you anyway?

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

In misc.consumers.house Harry K wrote:

But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
is over.

This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again and
will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Where is "here"?

Do you happen to recall the price of gas in the summer of 1998 through 1999
was in your area? How did those prices compare to the few years before?

I personally am expecting gas to be under $2 again within 18 months.

Harry K wrote
Jonathan Kamens wrote
George Grapman writes

Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

Yes, because of market pressures -- if they don't,
some other gas station will and will sell more gas.

Of course, different stations respond to
the market pressures at different speeds.

But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.

Lie.

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis is
over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again
and will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Plenty of mindless pig ignorant hysterics said the same thing in the 70s too.

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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 08:49:55 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

I read that some gas stations only make as little as 4 cents a
gallon.


That's a damned lie.
I just checked with some locals here in northern California, where
petrol is higher than most other locations, and the average is 50
cents per gallon blue sky (profit). Therefore the margin is more on
the order of 70 or 80 cents per gallon. There are some honest
dealers here who admit to making at least 40 cents on the gallon.
Then there are the liars.


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining
- JFK
~~~~~~~~

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Hash: SHA1

On 1 Sep 2005 13:39:39 -0700, "Curtis CCR"
wrote:

Then you get a large grocery store chain which also sells gas -
has 150 stores. That would be an additional $900,000.00 they
would need to come up with if the price increased 20 cents per
gallon!


You don't think they get terms from the distributor?

You might be surprised. COD terms are not uncommon in independent
station operations.

Think Costco or
Walmart pay up front?

I don't know the details, but depending on how they buy, they may
very well be paying up front


With oil as volatile as it is now (pardon the pun), I'm surprised
any of the volume distributors would extend credit anymore.


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining
- JFK
~~~~~~~~

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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:13:33 GMT, George Grapman
wrote:

Jonathan Kamens wrote:
"Bill" writes:

So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a
profit, but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill
their tanks at a much higher price next time. Thus I would think
they will need to collect *now* the amount of money they will need
to pay when they fill up their tanks in the future???


Yes, gas stations generally raise their prices in anticipation
of how much it'll cost them for the next delivery. That is,
the price you pay is usually based on how much the station
thinks gas is *going to* cost, not how much they paid for the
gas you're pumping.

Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

How droll!


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining
- JFK
~~~~~~~~

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the 1973
oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon. Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same
story.

What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!


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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining
- JFK
~~~~~~~~

~^Johnny^~ wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis is
over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

Corse it didnt.

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double
after the 1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to
less than 60 cents per gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

That aint AFTER THE 70s.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics hiked prices again, to
over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same story.

Pity about some of the lower prices that
were in fact seen after various crises.

What do you know, from behind
your computer station in Australia!!!

Even someone as stupid as you can find various price charts using the net.

Andrew Koenig wrote:

"~^Johnny^~" wrote:

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the 1973
oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon. Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same
story.

The highest price I saw around here in the 1980's was $1.34/gallon, with
widespread shortages. That was the week before Reagan's inauguration. More
or less his first official act was to lift gasoline price controls. The
shortages promptly disappeared, prices almost as promptly started dropping,
and they didn't come back to that level again for years.

I remember back in the gas-line days when somebody said "You just wait, when
gas hits a buck a gallon there'll be PLENTY of gas!"

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ====================
"Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft[0], recently referred to LINUX as a
cancer. Unsurprisingly, that's incorrect; LINUX was released on August
25th, 1991 and is therefore a virgo." -- Kevin L

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:56:17 -0700, The Real Bev
wrote:

Andrew Koenig wrote:

"~^Johnny^~" wrote:

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the 1973
oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon. Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same
story.

The highest price I saw around here in the 1980's was $1.34/gallon, with
widespread shortages. That was the week before Reagan's inauguration. More
or less his first official act was to lift gasoline price controls. The
shortages promptly disappeared, prices almost as promptly started dropping,
and they didn't come back to that level again for years.

I remember back in the gas-line days when somebody said "You just wait, when
gas hits a buck a gallon there'll be PLENTY of gas!"

I lived in Toronto during the gas-line days. The only gas lines I saw
were on the news (Buffalo, NY TV stations).

Binyamin Dissen wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:40:50 -0700 "Harry K" wrote:

:Jonathan Kamens wrote:
: George Grapman writes:
: Do they lower them in anticipation of a price drop?

: Yes, because of market pressures -- if they don't, some other
: gas station will and will sell more gas.
:
: Of course, different stations respond to the market pressures
: at different speeds.

:But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
:The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
:is over.

1982-1983 ring a bell?

:This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
:$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again and
:will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Just how old are you anyway?

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

82-83? Yes I recall several of what I call excessive price rises,
can't put specific years or amounts to them but I do not recall -ever-
seeing the price return fully to the pre-rise price.

As to age, I went to school with Christ.

Harry K

wrote:
In misc.consumers.house Harry K wrote:

But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
is over.

This started with prices around $2.00 here, it is now approaching
$3.00. My bet is we will never see gas (here) at under $2.75 again and
will be lucky if it ever goes down to that.

Where is "here"?

Do you happen to recall the price of gas in the summer of 1998 through 1999
was in your area? How did those prices compare to the few years before?

I personally am expecting gas to be under $2 again within 18 months.

In Eastern Washington. One of the highest gas tax states in Union. I
can't recall the specific prices, just that when they went up, the
never went back to where they were. In the early 80s I recall it
hitting $1.43 and then settling back to around $1.35 but that memory is
vague and probably incorrect.

You will never see gas under $2 again.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
Binyamin Dissen wrote:

On 2 Sep 2005 06:40:50 -0700 "Harry K" wrote:

:But the history shows that the price never drops back to what it was.
:The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the crisis
:is over.

1982-1983 ring a bell?

82-83? Yes I recall several of what I call excessive price rises,
can't put specific years or amounts to them but I do not recall -ever-
seeing the price return fully to the pre-rise price.

When I was in high school (1987-1989), gas was right around $1.00/gal,
sometimes more, and sometimes less.

In 1999 it was $0.80 - $0.90/gal, and I even bought gas in a small
town for something like $0.78/gal.

So, the prices went down slightly from 1989 to 1999. And prices of
everything else had gone way up. A cheap apartment in 1989 was $250.
A cheap apartment in 1999 was $400-500.

- Logan

Logan Shaw wrote:
Bill wrote:

You think you have problems with high gasoline prices....

Lately I've seen some stations which usually have the lowest price for
gas,
charging higher prices than other stations. Then I realized why they
might
be doing this....

I think gas station underground storage tanks hold around 30,000 gallons?

If they are paying $2.50 a gallon, that would be $75,000.00 to fill their
tanks!


I saw a TV news story on this. I forget which network. They said
that these smaller independent gas stations -- the ones that usually
have bargain prices -- operate by looking for deals and buying excess
gas from the major gas companies. But the "majors" (as this particular
analyst called them), when there are shortages, will favor their own
chain of retail stations over independents who want to buy from them.
They put the independent stations on an allocation based on previous
usage, so that the maximum they can buy is 110% or 120% of what they
bought in some previous time period (same day previous year, same day
previous month, or rolling average over some period like the last
month or quarter).

The bottom line is that these independent bargain stations normally
have low prices because they are picking up surplus here and there
at cut rates. But now there IS no surplus, or not much of it. They
have less flexibility to shop around for low rates, and they also
have less available to them overall, so they are going to buy less
gas at a higher rate and charge a lot more.

The net result is that the independent "bargain" stations are now
charging more than the name-brand major chains. Which probably
sucks for them, but on the other hand, when there are shortages,
people become a lot less price sensitive, so the bargain stations
won't have too much trouble unloading that gas even though they're
charging more than people expect.

- Logan


which makes sense. i saw an independant station that was *closed*. roped
off with yellow tape. the prices on the sign were about 30 cents higher
than other places- about $3.30/gal, when the 76 station down the street
was $2.97.

guess it doesnt make sense to stay open when no one in their right mind
would pay those prices.

Bill wrote:
I asked how big the underground tanks were at a gas station and the guy
told me they could hold 120,000 gallons.

He also said they were only keeping them about 1/3 full lately. Note that
he had a concerned look on his face when he said this.

if he can get by on 1/3 of a tank, why not? why fill the tank when
wholesale prices are so expensive?

"That's a damned lie.
I just checked with some locals here in northern California, where
petrol is higher than most other locations, and the average is 50
cents per gallon blue sky (profit). Therefore the margin is more on
the order of 70 or 80 cents per gallon. There are some honest
dealers here who admit to making at least 40 cents on the gallon.
Then there are the liars. "

Gasoline retailers making 50 cents a gallon profit? LOL There have
been lots of reports showing the breakdown of the cost of gasoline at
the pump. I've never seeen any with retailers earning margins of 80
cents and profits of 50 cents. A typical margin is 10-15 cents. Over
half the cost is now reflected in the price of crude. Follow that
with in decreasing order, refining cost, taxes, and transportation, and
there isn't a lot left for the retailer. In fact, that's why many of
them earn more profit from having a convenience store as part of the
operation.

"SoCalMike" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
I asked how big the underground tanks were at a gas station and the guy
told me they could hold 120,000 gallons.

He also said they were only keeping them about 1/3 full lately. Note that
he had a concerned look on his face when he said this.

if he can get by on 1/3 of a tank, why not? why fill the tank when
wholesale prices are so expensive?

....Because wholesale might become even *more* expensive in the future.
Something that needs to be considered.

Heck, I filled up my car's tank almost every morning on the way to work this
week, even though it was only a few gallons low. Because I knew that when
I'd come home that night, the gas stations would be charging .20 or so more
than they were in the morning. I would think a station owner might consider
a similar strategy if he can pull it off.

~^Johnny^~ wrote:

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On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the 1973
oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES were
always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same
story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did "Reagonomics
*hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year *before* Reagan himself
even became the President. Reality check: Oil prices dropped after the
stupid price controls of the 1970s were dropped and they dropped again in
the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some alternate
reality!!!

Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the 1973
oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES were
always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon. Same
story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did "Reagonomics
*hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year *before* Reagan himself
even became the President. Reality check: Oil prices dropped after the
stupid price controls of the 1970s were dropped and they dropped again in
the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some alternate
reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price
dropped. Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they
started. I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never once did
it drop back to the beginning levels. YOu insist it did. Simple.
Post your proof.

Harry K

On 7 Sep 2005 05:40:02 -0700 "Harry K" wrote:

:The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price
:dropped. Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they
:started. I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never once did
:it drop back to the beginning levels. YOu insist it did. Simple.
:Post your proof.

If you pick the date of the "start" as the time where the price was lower than
any future price, you have a self fulfilling prophecy.

How do you pick your "start" date?

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

Bill wrote:
You think you have problems with high gasoline prices....

Lately I've seen some stations which usually have the lowest price for gas,
charging higher prices than other stations. Then I realized why they might
be doing this....

I think gas station underground storage tanks hold around 30,000 gallons?

If they are paying $2.50 a gallon, that would be $75,000.00 to fill their
tanks!

Then if the price goes up to $2.70 a gallon for their price, that would
then be $81,000.00 to fill their tanks.

Or an additional expense for them of $6,000.00!

Then you get a large grocery store chain which also sells gas - has 150
stores. That would be an additional $900,000.00 they would need to come up
with if the price increased 20 cents per gallon!

I read that some gas stations only make as little as 4 cents a gallon. So
if they sold 30,000 gallons of gas, then they would only make $1,200.00.

So they must be having a difficult time, not only trying to make a profit,
but also trying to get enough money together to re-fill their tanks at a
much higher price next time. Thus I would think they will need to collect
*now* the amount of money they will need to pay when they fill up their
tanks in the future???

Sounds like a cash flow nightmare....

I have a relative with a gas station, and it is very difficult to make a
profit. In fact he does not make a profit on gas, if you factor in the
fixed costs. He has to decide how much gas to order, based on the
anticipated direction in wholesale prices, since he doesn't want to get
stuck with expensive gas in his tanks when prices are going down, he
wants to fill his tanks just before prices go up. His gross profit is
around 10 cents per gallon, and he pumps around 50K gallons per month.
This is only $5000 in gross margin, not enough to pay the franchise
fees, rent, taxes, fees, and a cashier.

Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the
1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES
were always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon.
Same story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did
"Reagonomics *hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year *before*
Reagan himself even became the President. Reality check: Oil
prices dropped after the stupid price controls of the 1970s were
dropped and they dropped again in the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some alternate
reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price dropped.
Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they started.

Lie.

I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never
once did it drop back to the beginning levels.

Lie.

YOu insist it did. Simple. Post your proof.

How odd that you made the original claim and havent posted a shred of proof.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:05:10 GMT, SMS
wrote:


I have a relative with a gas station, and it is very difficult to make a
profit. In fact he does not make a profit on gas, if you factor in the
fixed costs. He has to decide how much gas to order, based on the
anticipated direction in wholesale prices, since he doesn't want to get
stuck with expensive gas in his tanks when prices are going down, he
wants to fill his tanks just before prices go up. His gross profit is
around 10 cents per gallon, and he pumps around 50K gallons per month.
This is only $5000 in gross margin, not enough to pay the franchise
fees, rent, taxes, fees, and a cashier.

Does your relative base his pump prices on (a) what he thinks he'll
pay for the next tankload, or (b) what he's paid for gas already in
the tank? Or is it (a) when prices are rising and (b) when prices are
dropping?

Rod Speed wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the
1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES
were always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon.
Same story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did
"Reagonomics *hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year *before*
Reagan himself even became the President. Reality check: Oil
prices dropped after the stupid price controls of the 1970s were
dropped and they dropped again in the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some alternate
reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price dropped.
Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they started.

Lie.

I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never
once did it drop back to the beginning levels.

Lie.

YOu insist it did. Simple. Post your proof.

How odd that you made the original claim and havent posted a shred of proof.

Proof has been shoved up your ass countless times ******, you ignore
it, so STFU.

Binyamin Dissen wrote:
On 7 Sep 2005 05:40:02 -0700 "Harry K" wrote:

:The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price
:dropped. Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they
:started. I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never once did
:it drop back to the beginning levels. YOu insist it did. Simple.
:Post your proof.

If you pick the date of the "start" as the time where the price was lower than
any future price, you have a self fulfilling prophecy.

How do you pick your "start" date?

Find a local minimum on the curve and then look for a time after that
where it got down to that level or lower.

Whether that's happened depends on whether you adjust for inflation
or not. Here's a chart:

http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/fac/sahr/gasol.htm

And if you look at the blue line (not adjusted for inflation), you'll see
that every local minimum is higher than all the local minima prior to it.

But if you look at the red line (adjusted for inflation using the Consumer
Price Index), then you can see several points where a local minimum is
lower than a previous one. Once in 1978 (just before the price skyrocketed,
it dropped just a bit), one in 1988, one in 1994 where the price was
lower than it had been in 1988, and on in 1998 where the price was lower
than it had ever been since even 1950, and then another in 2002 when the
price was lower than any time between 1950 and 1993.

By the way, looking at that graph, it's interesting to note how long the
price stayed high last time it went upwards very steeply: it start going
up very quickly in 1978, and then it didn't go back down below that point
until 1986, so 8 years. If the pattern repeats, then we started our most
recent serious increases in 2002 (or 2004, depending on how you look at
it), so based on that evidence alone (which is thin, I admit), we should
expect the prices to return to "normal" sometime around 2010 or 2012.

- Logan

The Etobian wrote:

Does your relative base his pump prices on (a) what he thinks he'll
pay for the next tankload, or (b) what he's paid for gas already in
the tank? Or is it (a) when prices are rising and (b) when prices are
dropping?

The price is NOT based on the price of the fuel already in the tanks.
You'd think that this would be the fairest way to price, but the problem
is that you cannot charge a higher price when the wholesale price is
falling, just because you paid more for the gas in your tanks, so
conversely you have to balance it out by not charging less when the
wholesale price is rising yet you paid less for the gas in your tanks.
Where you can make money is to fill your tanks just before you know
prices are going up, and hope that they fall slightly prior to the next
fill-up.

Rod Speed wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the
1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents per
gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES
were always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon.
Same story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did
"Reagonomics *hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year *before*
Reagan himself even became the President. Reality check: Oil
prices dropped after the stupid price controls of the 1970s were
dropped and they dropped again in the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some alternate
reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price dropped.
Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where they started.

Lie.

I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never
once did it drop back to the beginning levels.

Lie.

YOu insist it did. Simple. Post your proof.

How odd that you made the original claim and havent posted a shred of proof.

So see Logan's post. Only if you adjust for inflation can you find an
exception and even that way it is only slight. You want to prove
different all you have to do is post one example. Good luck with that.
For me to prove my point I would have to post every rise and every
fall back to Adam.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the
1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents
per gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES
were always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon.
Same story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did
"Reagonomics *hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year
*before* Reagan himself even became the President. Reality check:
Oil prices dropped after the stupid price controls of the 1970s
were dropped and they dropped again in the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in
Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some
alternate reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price
dropped. Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where
they started.

Lie.

I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never
once did it drop back to the beginning levels.

Lie.

YOu insist it did. Simple. Post your proof.

How odd that you made the original claim and havent posted a shred
of proof.

So see Logan's post. Only if you adjust for inflation can you find an
exception

Even someone as stupid as you should realise that you have to adjust for
inflation.

and even that way it is only slight.

That is a lie.

You want to prove different all you have to do is post one example.

Dont need to, that chart alone proves that you lied.

Good luck with that. For me to prove my point I would
have to post every rise and every fall back to Adam.

And since you have never seen that data, you cant make your claim, liar.

SMS wrote:
The price is NOT based on the price of the fuel already in the tanks.
You'd think that this would be the fairest way to price,

Not necessarily. What it cost them in the past is just that: the past.
I would expect them to price it at whatever it's worth right now.

That means if they bought it cheap and are making a hefty profit, I'm
OK with that. It would be nice for them to share their luck with me,
but I don't expect them to since they're a business. On the other
side of the coin, I don't expect them to charge a lot for it if they
bought it when prices were high but prices have dropped a lot since
them. That's their problem in exactly the same way that it's their
good fortune if they managed to buy low and sell high.

- Logan

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:29:57 GMT, SMS
wrote:

The price is NOT based on the price of the fuel already in the tanks.
You'd think that this would be the fairest way to price, but the problem
is that you cannot charge a higher price when the wholesale price is
falling, just because you paid more for the gas in your tanks, so
conversely you have to balance it out by not charging less when the
wholesale price is rising yet you paid less for the gas in your tanks.
Where you can make money is to fill your tanks just before you know
prices are going up, and hope that they fall slightly prior to the next
fill-up.

If that's the case, why is it that when wholesale prices spike up, we
see almost instantaneous spikes at the pump, but when wholesale prices
drop sharply, it takes many many days to see the first penny drop and
it takes weeks for the retail prices to return to the normal markup
over wholesale?

In article , The Etobian
wrote:

If that's the case, why is it that when wholesale prices spike up, we
see almost instantaneous spikes at the pump, but when wholesale prices
drop sharply, it takes many many days to see the first penny drop and
it takes weeks for the retail prices to return to the normal markup
over wholesale?

Why does a male dog lick his dick?

Because he can.

--
"Let's just admit that public education is mediocre at best." -- Frank Zappa

Rod Speed wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
~^Johnny^~ wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:47:20 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

Harry K wrote

The higher the rise, the higher the final price will be when the
crisis is over.

Have fun explaining how come that didnt happen after the 70s.

Like hell it didn't!

I watched Los Angeles gasoline prices more than double after the
1973 oil embargo, and they never returned to less than 60 cents
per gallon, up from 28 cents per gallon.

Of course you ignore the fact that TAXES also increased, and TAXES
were always part of the total cost at the pump during that time.

Then, in 1980, Reaganomics
hiked prices again, to over a dollar and a quarter per gallon.
Same story.

Wow! That's amazing. From you we learn that not only did
"Reagonomics *hike* oil prices, but they did so in the year
*before* Reagan himself even became the President. Reality check:
Oil prices dropped after the stupid price controls of the 1970s
were dropped and they dropped again in the mid-1980s.



What do you know, from behind your computer station in
Australia!!!

What do you know, from behind your computer station in some
alternate reality!!!

The reality is that after every rise due to shortages, the price
dropped. Yes. But it never in any of them dropped back to where
they started.

Lie.

I first started buying gas in the late 40s. Never
once did it drop back to the beginning levels.

Lie.

YOu insist it did. Simple. Post your proof.

How odd that you made the original claim and havent posted a shred
of proof.

So see Logan's post. Only if you adjust for inflation can you find an
exception

Even someone as stupid as you should realise that you have to adjust for
inflation.

and even that way it is only slight.

That is a lie.

You want to prove different all you have to do is post one example.

Dont need to, that chart alone proves that you lied.

Good luck with that. For me to prove my point I would
have to post every rise and every fall back to Adam.

And since you have never seen that data, you cant make your claim, liar.

I don't converse with people who resort to insults

plonk

Harry K