Electronics (alt.electronics)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old July 11th 19, 10:09 AM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2017
Posts: 20
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM:
On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15
volts,
but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and


A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the
charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts
after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell.

On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts.
That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range.

Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers
were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were
to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary
from one manufacturer to another??


--
Daniel

  #2   Report Post  
Old July 11th 19, 10:19 AM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2009
Posts: 34,383
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 11/07/2019 10:09, Daniel60 wrote:
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM:
On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15
volts,
but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and


A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the
charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts
after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell.

On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts.
That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range.

Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers
were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were
to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary
from one manufacturer to another??


There would be no reason to have a standard voltage - standard charge
voltage, yes. 230 single phase or 400 three phase (same thing)

A far as battery voltages go - looking at say 200bhp (around 260Kw) is
around 660A at 400V.

which is still a lot of amps. I'd say the ideal is probably near the
limit of *cheap* semiconductor power FETS probably around 1kv or so.

I am a long time out of that field though, so it may be higher.

What I am fairly sure of however is that battery voltage will be decided
by cost of using that particular voltage and that will be down to what
semiconductors are available.

Should the market develop towards standardised batteries that could be
replaced by a local kwikfit etc, then I am sure manufacturers would
develop a common standard.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

  #3   Report Post  
Old July 11th 19, 03:01 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2016
Posts: 221
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 11/7/19 7:09 pm, Daniel60 wrote:
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM:
On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15
volts,
but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and


A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the
charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts
after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell.

On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts.
That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range.

Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers
were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were
to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary
from one manufacturer to another??


It varies. Anything up to 600 volts DC seems to be the norm at present.
BEVs have a regulator to drop those very high voltages down to whatever
voltage the ancillaries require - between 12V and 48V typically.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
  #4   Report Post  
Old July 11th 19, 04:35 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,224
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?



"Daniel60" wrote in message
...
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM:
On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15
volts,
but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and


A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the
charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts
after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell.

On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts.
That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range.

Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers
were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were to
be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage??


Nope.

Or does it vary from one manufacturer to another??


And from one model to another too.

  #5   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 07:56 AM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2017
Posts: 20
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM:
Xeno wrote on 22/06/2019 9:03 PM:
On 22/6/19 8:00 pm, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, the nominal output of an alternator can be as high as 15
volts,
but even a fully charged car battery is only 13.8v as far as I know and


A 12 Volt lead acid battery will show 13.2 volts straight off the
charger, about 2.2 volts per cell. That will drop to about 12.7 volts
after a day or so, a tad over 2.1 volts per cell.

On the other hand, a vehicle's nominal *system voltage* is 14 Volts.
That's because the *alternator typically operates in the 13.8-14.2 range.

Due to increasing loads on vehicle electrical equipment, manufacturers
were pushing to a nominal 42 Volt electrical system on cars. They were
to be equipped with a 36 Volt battery. It may not happen now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42-volt_electrical_system


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary
from one manufacturer to another??

Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P

--
Daniel


  #6   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 02:37 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2017
Posts: 96
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 12/07/2019 07:56, Daniel60 wrote:
Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM:


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it vary
from one manufacturer to another??

Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P

More volts requires more cells. Better to standardise on the size of a
cell, set a maximum operating current and alter the number of cells
according to cost/power requirements.
  #7   Report Post  
Old July 12th 19, 08:10 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: May 2011
Posts: 1,943
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 12/07/2019 14:37, TMS320 wrote:
On 12/07/2019 07:56, Daniel60 wrote:
Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM:


Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it
vary from one manufacturer to another??

Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P

*More volts requires more cells. Better to standardise on the size of a
cell, set a maximum operating current and alter the number of cells
according to cost/power requirements.


Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small
town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or
three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter
if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions
or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use
robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out
discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a
fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level.

That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel
one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries
are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers
rather than an individual being hit by a high fee.

It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would
benefit, not just the latest model.

SteveW
  #8   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 11:15 AM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 38,253
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle with load present?

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small
town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or
three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter
if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions
or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use
robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out
discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a
fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level.


That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel
one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries
are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers
rather than an individual being hit by a high fee.


It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would
benefit, not just the latest model.


Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country.
Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against.
How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #9   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 01:42 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2016
Posts: 609
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small
town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or
three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter
if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions
or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use
robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out
discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a
fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level.


That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel
one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries
are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers
rather than an individual being hit by a high fee.


It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would
benefit, not just the latest model.


Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country.
Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against.
How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on.


How do you propose decisions should be made on what is to be produced
and when innovation is to be allowed? The same system that produced the
Trabant in 1957 - and carried on producing it until 1990?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #10   Report Post  
Old July 13th 19, 10:59 PM posted to alt.electronics,uk.rec.driving,alt.home.repair,uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: May 2011
Posts: 1,943
Default Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to tricklewith load present?

On 13/07/2019 11:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small
town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or
three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter
if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions
or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use
robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out
discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a
fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level.


That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel
one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries
are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers
rather than an individual being hit by a high fee.


It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would
benefit, not just the latest model.


Which would require cooperation between every maker in every country.
Just the thing all the Farages and Trumps of this world are dead against.
How dare anyone tell us how we should do things. And so on.


We manage to agree on the standards of petrol that cars have to be able
to run on now. We manage to impose (although not police) emissions
standards. Standards are not the same in every country, but someone
supplying from outside has to meet the standards in force in the UK.
There is nothing wrong with countries co-operating on standards - only
in having them imposed externally.

SteveW


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle withload present? Commander Kinsey UK diy 106 July 16th 19 05:59 AM
Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trickle withload present? Commander Kinsey Home Repair 375 July 14th 19 09:23 PM
Leave an unplugged battery charger connected to lead-acid battery? BetaB4 Home Repair 30 May 24th 09 12:33 AM
Lead Acid Battery Charger Recommendation Too_Many_Tools Electronics Repair 13 October 22nd 05 09:23 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017