And I quote:
"Tried lots of things and then took it to the workbench, I turned
several knobs now not even a line. What can be done?"
"Can someone give me a step by step way to fix the problem?
I will gladly appreciate it if you could. (And just so you know i have
no idea any of the tchnical names of the Tv parts so you will have to
bear with me. Thanxs alot!! "
"Apparently, my SNES is out of sync with my Sony big screen. Whenever
I move my characters, these weird picture waves go down the screen.
How do I fix this?"

It is like people think repairing stuff is magic and we all have a
crystal ball and can see into both the tv set they are looking at and
into the minds of the people who are trying to fix it and have no clue
what a resistor or vertical ic is or what they look like.


Y'all regulars know what I am talking about lately. Seems like an
increasing number of postings from people who have no clue and are not
willing to learn a little bit before asking for help.

wrote:
And I quote:
"Tried lots of things and then took it to the workbench, I turned
several knobs now not even a line. What can be done?"
"Can someone give me a step by step way to fix the problem?
I will gladly appreciate it if you could. (And just so you know i have
no idea any of the tchnical names of the Tv parts so you will have to
bear with me. Thanxs alot!! "
"Apparently, my SNES is out of sync with my Sony big screen. Whenever
I move my characters, these weird picture waves go down the screen.
How do I fix this?"

It is like people think repairing stuff is magic and we all have a
crystal ball and can see into both the tv set they are looking at and
into the minds of the people who are trying to fix it and have no clue
what a resistor or vertical ic is or what they look like.


Y'all regulars know what I am talking about lately. Seems like an
increasing number of postings from people who have no clue and are not
willing to learn a little bit before asking for help.


I think there is a perception among some, that since you need not be a
300 # musclebound person or over six feet tall, that anyone can repair
electronic items. It reminds me of many years ago when my ten year old
son said he would like to learn electronics. When I started with the
math and electrical laws, he soon lost interest since he was fascinated
mostly by the "Squiggly lines" on the oscilloscope.

Some do not realize that it takes years of education and experience to
be able to repair many items. Even in this news group, I get a kick out
of those looking for schematics. Sure, if you can find one, why not?
It makes repairing things MUCH easier. But repairing things WITHOUT
them is when you feel you have a fair understanding of electronics.

All that being said, I am still learning every day. And a question
posed with SOME sense of clarity, and SOME sense of ability is due a
reply. There, I said it!!!

wrote in message
oups.com...
And I quote:
....
It is like people think repairing stuff is magic and we all have a
crystal ball and can see into both the tv set they are looking at and
into the minds of the people who are trying to fix it and have no clue
what a resistor or vertical ic is or what they look like.

It's the same with computers. I blame push button phones myself. Think about
it.

N

wrote in message
oups.com...
And I quote:
"Tried lots of things and then took it to the workbench, I turned
several knobs now not even a line. What can be done?"
"Can someone give me a step by step way to fix the problem?
I will gladly appreciate it if you could. (And just so you know i have
no idea any of the tchnical names of the Tv parts so you will have to
bear with me. Thanxs alot!! "
"Apparently, my SNES is out of sync with my Sony big screen. Whenever
I move my characters, these weird picture waves go down the screen.
How do I fix this?"

It is like people think repairing stuff is magic and we all have a
crystal ball and can see into both the tv set they are looking at and
into the minds of the people who are trying to fix it and have no clue
what a resistor or vertical ic is or what they look like.


Y'all regulars know what I am talking about lately. Seems like an
increasing number of postings from people who have no clue and are not
willing to learn a little bit before asking for help.


I don't think it's gone up lately, it's always been that way on the repair
groups. Hard to blame someone for trying I suppose, at least they found the
group and asked a question rather than just throwing the thing away.

no clue and are not
willing to learn a little bit before asking for help.

You can say that again. What's more is that these people fall into two
categories. We got the cheapsters, for whichever reason. They could be
exceedingly greedy or really not that well of and trying to save a
buck. They could be bank executives so full of themselves that they
think they can handle any job us menials do, or be a burger flipper who
can't afford the repair bill. Either way, they don't want to learn,
just get it done. Perhaps they expect a magic key sequence to put the
TV into self-repair mode.

Y'know a buddy o mine had a contracting company a few years back and he
told me about when people asked why something was so expensive he
replied with, how much do YOU make ? People will sit there and collect
$80,000 a year for doing pretty much nothing and begrudge you your
$30/hour or whatever. And they NEED YOU to do it BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.

HA !

I love knowledge.

JURB

It reminds me of many years ago when my ten year old
son said he would like to learn electronics. When I started with the
math and electrical laws, he soon lost interest

I don't mean this as a cut, but as constructive criticism.

Perhaps you didn't put it the right way. Attention spans aren't what
they used to be.

There is more to it than this but when I have to explain Ohm's law to
the electronically ignorant I use headlights.

Standard headlights were 36 watts. When you use two of them what do you
pull ? Of course you pull 72 watts. Why ?

Because the lights are 4 ohms. You have 12 volts from the battery, and
each one of these lights pulls 3 amps.

Volts are a potential between two conductors, it is a measurement of
something physical. Yes man invented the volt, but not what it
measures. An amp is a current flow, also physical and measurable.

The Ohm is a different thing, it expresses a ratio between volts and
amps.

If you have a 4 ohm headlight, it pulls 3 amps off of 12 volts because
12 divided by 4 is 3, when you simply hook two of these together they
pull 6 amps.

Watts is` the product of volts and amps. At 12 volt and 6 amps (3X2)
you are pulling 72 watts from the battery.

With em hooked together, they must total 2 ohms.

That means they pull 6 amps from the 12 volt source, and 12 volts X 6
amps is 72 watts.

Watts means heat, and as a switch in the wall, you need both to have
watts. If the switch is on there is current (amps) but no voltage.
Therefore there are no watts making heat. If the switch is off there is
voltage, but no current. It takes both.

Therefore the switch is kinda inert, if it is working properly. When a
switch that's off starts passing current, or a switch that's on allows
a voltage drop there is a problem.

Bulbs, motors and whatever else have voltage and current at the same
time, not switches.



I get the beginning right first, before I go on. I have to hammer it
into the heads of men in their 40s. I guess it's hard to teach an old
dog new tricks, but what about the new dogs, they're even denser.

Most of the time spent sporting my simplified ohm's law was decades
ago. The subject hasn't even come up lately. Last time anyone asked it
was someone who makes more than me.

I am starting to enjoy the bit of solitude I get, and my time on the
internet.

Can we all have a brain party sometime or what ?

JURB

wrote in message
oups.com...

Y'know a buddy o mine had a contracting company a few years back and he
told me about when people asked why something was so expensive he
replied with, how much do YOU make ? People will sit there and collect
$80,000 a year for doing pretty much nothing and begrudge you your
$30/hour or whatever. And they NEED YOU to do it BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.

"Why something is so expensive": because we are fixing 21st Century
electronics using 18th Century methods.

N

NSM wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...


Y'know a buddy o mine had a contracting company a few years back and he
told me about when people asked why something was so expensive he
replied with, how much do YOU make ? People will sit there and collect
$80,000 a year for doing pretty much nothing and begrudge you your
$30/hour or whatever. And they NEED YOU to do it BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.


"Why something is so expensive": because we are fixing 21st Century
electronics using 18th Century methods.


Hi...

When I studied many many years ago I was told the definition
of what something was worth was exactly what a reasonable
person will and can pay for it.

Today, I think it's more accurately described as the most that
the market will bear.

Ken

wrote:
....
Y'know a buddy o mine had a contracting company a few years back and he
told me about when people asked why something was so expensive he
replied with, how much do YOU make ? People will sit there and collect
$80,000 a year for doing pretty much nothing and begrudge you your
$30/hour or whatever. And they NEED YOU to do it BECAUSE THEY CAN'T.

Classic example from Charles Steinmetz[1] some 103 years ago:

"Steinmetz retired as an engineer from General Electric to teach
electrical engineering at that city's Union College in 1902. General
Electric later called back as a consultant. He had worked on a very
complex system that was broken. No one could fix it no matter how hard
the technicians tried. So they got Steinmetz back. He traced the systems
and found the malfunctioning part and marked it with a piece of chalk

Charles Steinmetz submitted a bill for $10,000 dollars. The General
Electric managers were taken back and asked for an itemized invoice.

He sent back the following invoice:

1. Making the chalk mark $1
2. Knowing where to place the chalk mark $9,999"


[1] Steinmetz references
http://www.rotaryhistoryfellowship.org/philosophy/scientists/steinmets.htm
and many others through Google.

wrote in message
oups.com...
It reminds me of many years ago when my ten year old
son said he would like to learn electronics. When I started with the
math and electrical laws, he soon lost interest

I don't mean this as a cut, but as constructive criticism.

Perhaps you didn't put it the right way. Attention spans aren't what
they used to be.

There is more to it than this but when I have to explain Ohm's law to
the electronically ignorant I use headlights.

Standard headlights were 36 watts. When you use two of them what do you
pull ? Of course you pull 72 watts. Why ?

Because the lights are 4 ohms. You have 12 volts from the battery, and
each one of these lights pulls 3 amps.

Volts are a potential between two conductors, it is a measurement of
something physical. Yes man invented the volt, but not what it
measures. An amp is a current flow, also physical and measurable.

The Ohm is a different thing, it expresses a ratio between volts and
amps.

If you have a 4 ohm headlight, it pulls 3 amps off of 12 volts because
12 divided by 4 is 3, when you simply hook two of these together they
pull 6 amps.

Watts is` the product of volts and amps. At 12 volt and 6 amps (3X2)
you are pulling 72 watts from the battery.

With em hooked together, they must total 2 ohms.

That means they pull 6 amps from the 12 volt source, and 12 volts X 6
amps is 72 watts.

Watts means heat, and as a switch in the wall, you need both to have
watts. If the switch is on there is current (amps) but no voltage.
Therefore there are no watts making heat. If the switch is off there is
voltage, but no current. It takes both.

Therefore the switch is kinda inert, if it is working properly. When a
switch that's off starts passing current, or a switch that's on allows
a voltage drop there is a problem.

Bulbs, motors and whatever else have voltage and current at the same
time, not switches.


I always thought the math was boring, if someone had started me off like
that I'd have likely lost interest too. Instead I was given a pile of bulbs,
batteries, wires, switches and went from there experimenting. Later I had
the green electronics book from Radio Shack and learned more basic stuff
there and experimented further with parts salvaged from broken equipment. It
wasn't until fairly recently that I started reading up on all the math, at
which point I can already apply it and it's a lot more interesting.