I was 3,500 miles away in S. America last week when my cat sitter
reported that my air conditioning condenser outside wasn't running.

I have an American Home Shield warranty and got my neighbour to meet
the repair guy at the house. The repair guy told me the condenser fan
bearings were shot and the motor needed replacing. Okay, it's 28 years
old as far as I know.

Then he tells me he's going to tell American Home Shield that the motor
failed due to improper maintainence because one surface of the
condenser coils were dirty. He said the heat made the motor fail.

I asked him how heat build up could take out the bearings in a motor.
He just said that's what happened then promptly called AHS and got my
coverage denied. Then he told me he'd charge me $750 for a new motor,
fan and coil cleaning. Being on the other side of the planet I had no
choice but to let him rape me if I wanted a working AC when I got home.

So, my question is this: Is there anyway possible that dirty coils
could stop a fan motor from running? (I doubt very much that the motor
was thermal protected.)



--
Dallas

In article , says...

The entire AHS is a rip off A good fan motor for an external condenser up
to 4 tons (don't know about bigger ones but those are not common in
residential units) can be easily purchased for something like $150.
Replacing it is half-hour job for anybody who has even rudimentary skills.
Total cost would be less than AHS "copay".




Those home warrenty/insurance companies are all rip offs.

The cost of the motor from a repair man does not surprise me.

A few years ago my AC quit. Called 'One Hour AC people and the man came
out, abut 5 minuits said a capacitor was bad. Relpaced it and was about
$ 350 for the bill. The capacitor should now be over $ 50 allowing for
a large markup that is usually charged and I was told it would be $ 100
just for the man to come out. That ment I got ripped out of about $
200.

I hae bought a capacitor and relay for it off ebay for about $ 25 total
for my 'insurance'. The capacitor the man put in only lasted about 2
years, and my ebay one has been in longer than that.



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On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 20:12:38 -0000 (UTC), "Dallas"
wrote:


I was 3,500 miles away in S. America last week when my cat sitter
reported that my air conditioning condenser outside wasn't running.

I have an American Home Shield warranty and got my neighbour to meet
the repair guy at the house. The repair guy told me the condenser fan
bearings were shot and the motor needed replacing. Okay, it's 28 years
old as far as I know.

Then he tells me he's going to tell American Home Shield that the motor
failed due to improper maintainence because one surface of the
condenser coils were dirty. He said the heat made the motor fail.

I asked him how heat build up could take out the bearings in a motor.
He just said that's what happened then promptly called AHS and got my
coverage denied. Then he told me he'd charge me $750 for a new motor,
fan and coil cleaning. Being on the other side of the planet I had no
choice but to let him rape me if I wanted a working AC when I got home.

So, my question is this: Is there anyway possible that dirty coils
could stop a fan motor from running? (I doubt very much that the motor
was thermal protected.)
No dice on the dirty condenser causing the motor bearings to fail. It
was just age. And $750 for motor, fan and cleaning is way over priced.
I would contest the bill. Maybe you can get an estimate from the motor
installer's competitors to compare. You can be sure that AHS wouldn't
have paid $750 for that repair. Ask them how much they would have
paid.
Eric

In article , ken1943
@invalid.net says...

The repair companies have to keep certain parts in stock or know a
place to buy them locally. My last company had around a $ 2 million
stock only because of telephone stock for emergencies. No local place
to buy locally.



Sure they do. My dad worked as an appliance repar man from about 1950
to 1965. The company he worked for would usually mark the parts up
about double. That is why I would not have minded paying $ 50 for a $
20 part, but not $ 300.

It is hard telling how much repair stock the company I worked for had
but probably in the millions. This was a very large industrial plant.
Some parts were stocked by companies 50 miles away, some parts had to be
specially made and could take weeks or longer.


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On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 4:12:41 PM UTC-4, Dallas wrote:
I was 3,500 miles away in S. America last week when my cat sitter
reported that my air conditioning condenser outside wasn't running.

I have an American Home Shield warranty and got my neighbour to meet
the repair guy at the house. The repair guy told me the condenser fan
bearings were shot and the motor needed replacing. Okay, it's 28 years
old as far as I know.

Then he tells me he's going to tell American Home Shield that the motor
failed due to improper maintainence because one surface of the
condenser coils were dirty. He said the heat made the motor fail.

I asked him how heat build up could take out the bearings in a motor.
He just said that's what happened then promptly called AHS and got my
coverage denied. Then he told me he'd charge me $750 for a new motor,
fan and coil cleaning. Being on the other side of the planet I had no
choice but to let him rape me if I wanted a working AC when I got home.

So, my question is this: Is there anyway possible that dirty coils
could stop a fan motor from running? (I doubt very much that the motor
was thermal protected.)



--
Dallas


Very few professional repairers will provide service for these aftermarket warranty companies because they don't pay anywhere near the going rate. I still get calls from these companies and I had to threaten one to stop calling.

Around these parts, we call these warranty "technicians" trunk monkeys, because they often don't even have a truck but work out of their car. When they're not doing warranty work they pick up bottles and cans on the roadside - it's about the same pay they make doing the warranty work.

So what happened is that the thief the warranty company sent out to look at your AC figured he'd get $750 out of you instead of the $225 that they would pay him.

To make sure, he threw you under the bus.

I don't know if your state has a board that oversees licensing, but you should make a formal complaint.

The first thing you should do is cancel the warranty. You should also go on social media and blast both the thief and the warranty provider. I'm sure folks will be thrilled to hear how this thief told the warranty company it was your fault.

If you do, post it here and I'll share it.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

The entire AHS is a rip off A good fan motor for an external condenser up
to 4 tons (don't know about bigger ones but those are not common in
residential units) can be easily purchased for something like $150.
Replacing it is half-hour job for anybody who has even rudimentary skills.
Total cost would be less than AHS "copay".




Those home warrenty/insurance companies are all rip offs.

The cost of the motor from a repair man does not surprise me.

A few years ago my AC quit. Called 'One Hour AC people and the man came
out, abut 5 minuits said a capacitor was bad. Relpaced it and was about
$ 350 for the bill. The capacitor should now be over $ 50 allowing for
a large markup that is usually charged and I was told it would be $ 100
just for the man to come out. That ment I got ripped out of about $
200.

Over here people are often warned not to use google to find repairmen
in case of equipment/plumbing failure as there are loads of "middlemen"
that list themselves as "24h service at home" companies and then have
regular self-employed workers that they send off and that have to pay
hefty amounts to the middlemen to get those jobs. This results in
customers being overcharged like 5 times above what would be normal rates.

Apparently that "AHS" is a similar company, with an insurance policy
in addition to the scam. I would not be surprised when they pay in only
a very small fraction of the cases. A repairman usually has no problem
in pointing out some "your own fault" thing to an unknowing consumer.

In article ,
says...

Over here people are often warned not to use google to find repairmen
in case of equipment/plumbing failure as there are loads of "middlemen"
that list themselves as "24h service at home" companies and then have
regular self-employed workers that they send off and that have to pay
hefty amounts to the middlemen to get those jobs. This results in
customers being overcharged like 5 times above what would be normal rates.




The one my wife called was advertised on TV. The man showed up in a
truck with all the lego on it for that company and he had a paper that
listed 5 ot 6 groups of standard charges. We were on the lowest as it
was just a capacitor replacement that took maybe 10 minuits from the
time he left his truck looked at the AC and went back to his truck and
replaced the capacitor. It was over $ 300 for that.


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Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Over here people are often warned not to use google to find repairmen
in case of equipment/plumbing failure as there are loads of "middlemen"
that list themselves as "24h service at home" companies and then have
regular self-employed workers that they send off and that have to pay
hefty amounts to the middlemen to get those jobs. This results in
customers being overcharged like 5 times above what would be normal rates.




The one my wife called was advertised on TV. The man showed up in a
truck with all the lego on it for that company and he had a paper that
listed 5 ot 6 groups of standard charges. We were on the lowest as it
was just a capacitor replacement that took maybe 10 minuits from the
time he left his truck looked at the AC and went back to his truck and
replaced the capacitor. It was over $ 300 for that.

Not only for the capacitor, but also for the TV ADs.

All of these anecdotes remind me of the complaints about TV repair men charging $50 to replace a 25-cent capacitor if you brought it in to the shop, and $100 if he came out to your place. The argument always was that part of the charge was for knowing which part to replace.

In article ,
says...

All of these anecdotes remind me of the complaints about TV repair men charging $50 to replace a 25-cent capacitor if you brought it in to the shop, and $100 if he came out to your place. The argument always was that part of the charge was for knowing which part to replace.



That is why I had no problem when I was told it would be $ 100 just for
the man to come out. Not for him to add over $ 200 more for a $ 15 part
that took 10 minuits to find and install. I would have allowed him $ 50
for the markup on the part.


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In article ,
says...

Not only for the capacitor, but also for the TV ADs.

Save money; don't watch!

Mike.

wrote:
All of these anecdotes remind me of the complaints about TV repair men charging $50 to replace a 25-cent capacitor if you brought it in to the shop, and $100 if he came out to your place. The argument always was that part of the charge was for knowing which part to replace.

I think that one was more like:
- 25c to replace capacitor
- 49.75 to know which one.

(not really depending on location)

However, that is a different thing. What this discussion is about is
more the charging of $250 for a repair that reasonably would cost $50,
just because of the middlemen involved and their scheme of scamming
people in dispair.

In article ,
says...

I think that one was more like:
- 25c to replace capacitor
- 49.75 to know which one.

(not really depending on location)

However, that is a different thing. What this discussion is about is
more the charging of $250 for a repair that reasonably would cost $50,
just because of the middlemen involved and their scheme of scamming
people in dispair.



Right. I just had some painting done on the house. I told the painter
I did not want an itimized list of what all he used, just how much the
job would cost. I don't care if he bought paint for $ 50 a gallon
because he gets a discount and the list price is $ 70 a gallon.

It gets me when I go to the car dealer to have the standard service of
oil change, tires rotated, and a few other things when I get it safety
inspected as required by the state. They list many things even like the
shop towels they wipe their hands with and the disposal fee for the old
oil. I know they have to wipe and wash their hands and get rid of the
old oil. All I need is the bottom line cost, or if they have to do
anything extra like install new wiper blades or light bulbs to pass the
inspection.

When I paid the AC man to come out for $ 100 I was expecting that to
cover his trip and other odd things. As it only took him 10 minuits to
find and replace, I feel ripped off getting charged $ 300 for the $ 15
capacitor. I felt like the bill should have been more like $ 150 total.
Now if he had taken a lot of time to find a difficult problem, a higher
charge would be required.

In many cased it is not the actual part cost, but the over all charge
that I complain about. Had I not known that a capacitor should not be
over $ 25 (their cost) I might have thought $ 200 for a part may be
reasonable.



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Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I think that one was more like:
- 25c to replace capacitor
- 49.75 to know which one.

(not really depending on location)

However, that is a different thing. What this discussion is about is
more the charging of $250 for a repair that reasonably would cost $50,
just because of the middlemen involved and their scheme of scamming
people in dispair.



Right. I just had some painting done on the house. I told the painter
I did not want an itimized list of what all he used, just how much the
job would cost. I don't care if he bought paint for $ 50 a gallon
because he gets a discount and the list price is $ 70 a gallon.

It gets me when I go to the car dealer to have the standard service of
oil change, tires rotated, and a few other things when I get it safety
inspected as required by the state. They list many things even like the
shop towels they wipe their hands with and the disposal fee for the old
oil. I know they have to wipe and wash their hands and get rid of the
old oil. All I need is the bottom line cost, or if they have to do
anything extra like install new wiper blades or light bulbs to pass the
inspection.

When I paid the AC man to come out for $ 100 I was expecting that to
cover his trip and other odd things. As it only took him 10 minuits to
find and replace, I feel ripped off getting charged $ 300 for the $ 15
capacitor. I felt like the bill should have been more like $ 150 total.
Now if he had taken a lot of time to find a difficult problem, a higher
charge would be required.

In many cased it is not the actual part cost, but the over all charge
that I complain about. Had I not known that a capacitor should not be
over $ 25 (their cost) I might have thought $ 200 for a part may be
reasonable.

The point (at least my point) was not what a reasonable cost of a repair
would be, that of course depends on a lot of things not the least of
which is the local standard of living.

My point is that with the reasonable cost of some repair being e.g. $50,
there exist companies that make effort to be at the top of search results
for such repairs, and then overcharge by at least 5 times. Often relying
on customers that do not ask first what it will cost, will not shop
around to compare offers, or are in immediate need of help.
And in this scheme, the companies advertising the service are not even
providing it themselves, they are middlemen that only operate a service
to take orders from customers (by telephone, or these days by phone app)
and pass them on to existing people performing the service.

Sometimes they even provide some "subscription/insurance" service that
is part of the scam, in that you pay some premium for "guaranteed repair
at no cost" of certain things, then find that your particular repair is
not covered by the scheme.

Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

The entire AHS is a rip off


Actually, over 28 years with these guys we've made out pretty well...
a couple of new water heaters, a new furnace, a couple of under slab
leaks, total rebuild of the condensers parts (except fan motor) and
much more. But there is no denying they can be a pain in the ass with
"second opinions" and arguments over coverage.


--
Dallas

John-Del wrote:

So what happened is that the thief the warranty company sent out to
look at your AC figured he'd get $750 out of you instead of the $225
that they would pay him.



Yep, it would have come down differently if I had been here. I would
have told him to get back in his truck and buzz off. A few of AHS's
contractors are actually honest and I would have tried to get one of
those for a "second opinion".

--
Dallas

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 20:12:38 -0000 (UTC), "Dallas"
wrote:

Then he tells me he's going to tell American Home Shield that the motor
failed due to improper maintainence because one surface of the
condenser coils were dirty. He said the heat made the motor fail.
(...)
So, my question is this: Is there anyway possible that dirty coils
could stop a fan motor from running? (I doubt very much that the motor
was thermal protected.)

The type or maker/model of the A/C would be helpful.

The fan motor has another purpose besides blowing air through the
cooling coils.
https://www.partselect.com/Repair/Air-Conditioner/Unusual-Noise/
Some air conditioner models use the condenser fan
blade to transfer excess drain water onto the condenser coils;
if the drain port becomes clogged, the excess water can cause
the unusual noise as the fan blades slosh through it. Drain
the excess water and make sure the port is no longer plugged
to clear up this problem.
(...)
The fan motor bearings and/or bushings can become worn
over time and cause the unusual noise. They can also become
worn if the blower wheel is unbalanced, which happens when
there is a buildup of dirt because the air filter has not been
changed. When the fan motor becomes noisy on a window
air conditioner unit, it means it needs to be replaced.

Note the comment about the unbalanced fan and dirty filter.

If the drain is clogged, the fan will splatter water all over the
insides of the air conditioner causing any unprotected steel to
eventually rust. I personally haven't seen a clogged drain hole ruin
a bearing, but I can see how it might be possible.

I didn't see any mention that the air conditioner was making (bearing)
noises. In my limited experiences with motors, they always announce
impending failure through vibration, noises, smoke, and eventually
trip the overload protector. Because, it was not mentioned, I'll
assume that there was no vibration, noise, or smog prior to the motor
"failure". If the fan had been unbalanced by excessive and
unsymmetrical dirt buildup, it certainly would have vibrated and/or
made noises. Because the condenser coils are not moving, some dirt on
the condenser coils is unlikely to cause a motor unbalance. However,
some dirt on the fan might cause an unbalance. If the A/C or motor
had a thermal breaker, it would have tripped long before any
overheating would cause a bearing failure.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=air+conditioner+clean+condens er

Do you do this regularly?
"Cleaning Air Conditioner Coils (How To Video)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWHd4n-AuE

If there was no vibration, noise or smoke, my guess(tm) is all that
happened was the A/C tripped an over current breaker. Since it
happened while you were away, I'll further speculate that the
noiseless "failure" was either caused by a change in the way the A/C
was operated by the cat sitter, or a power surge delivered the
electric utility. I'm a little suspicious why it would fail while you
were out of the area.

If the repairman specified that dirt on the condenser coils caused a
bearing failure, I suspect he's a crook and should be treated as such.
However, if he indicated that dirt on the fan blades caused the motor
failure, he might be correct. Since there was no mention of
vibration, noise, or smoke, I suspect the former, and a complaint
should be filed with AHS.

Also, please note that in California, repair shops are required to
"offer" the old parts to the customer. You might want to ask the
repair guy for the old motor so you could have a motor shop inspect
the bearing. If he balks or provides creative excuses, you will have
a good clue as to his honesty.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 11:43:07 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


I didn't see any mention that the air conditioner was making (bearing)
noises. In my limited experiences with motors, they always announce
impending failure through vibration, noises, smoke, and eventually
trip the overload protector.

I changed the fan motor on my first floor compressor unit last summer and did so about 10 years on the second floor unit - both being 26 years old now.. Both would sometimes fail to start. I would go outside and give them a push with a screwdriver threw the top vents and they would run happily and quietly until the next cycle. They are Heil units.

http://gomp3.co/wp-content/uploads/2...rs-ratings.jpg

On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 12:05:10 PM UTC-5, jf...my-deja.com wrote:
All of these anecdotes remind me of the complaints about TV repair men charging $50 to replace a 25-cent capacitor if you brought it in to the shop, and $100 if he came out to your place. The argument always was that part of the charge was for knowing which part to replace.

It is. It cost us many hours to learn which part to replace and we could not lay that all on the first customer. How would YOU like to be that customer. Have any idea what that time costs ? It wasn't just my ton of money an hours it was lights, heat or A/C. Internet, phone, cable TV. We needed it. As a customer you pay a piece of that, no matter what business.

The places I worked had the best BBB rating there is. We were the ones to go testify against other shops of goniffs. We were the ones who fixed **** these dickhead couldn't, and they came in their house, took out a board and left and then called and said it would be like $600 to fix. And then we fixed it for half that and had the customer go get the board from that guy - AND FOUND IT WAS NOT THE PROBLEM !

So, I will change the cap(s) in your condenser unit for fifty bucks plus the caps, plus transportation. I'll put those bitches out of business as well, and not lose a minute sleep over their starving kids.

These days when I do a job some want to pay me more than I ask. I got a 40% tip on an amp repair.

If you are near Cuyahoga county it might be worth me doing something but I doubt it. But then you don't need it, I think...