Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old January 29th 19, 01:40 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Monday, 28 January 2019 18:37:47 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 12:40:45 PM UTC-5, tabby wrote:


During normal operation, damp seeps in from the ground & evaporates from the surface. If the surface is sealed that evaporation stops, and the stone gets wetter. Try it for yourself, place 2 stones or tiles onto the earth & cover one with plastic sheet, weighing it down all round. Damp is one of those topics on which misinformation abounds.


NT


You do not understand how an exterior stone walk is bedded, do you? Done properly, there will be 4"- 6" of stone, 4" of sans, then the topping. Which, unless it is concrete, is seldom grouted solid. Not 'never', but seldom.


Private stone walkways are not usually constructed that way.

The entire 'system' moves and shifts with temperature, substrate expansion and contraction due to moisture and so forth. But, even when cut into dense clay, there is little or no need for evaporation through the top. In high moisture conditions, the entire system below the surface will remain damp and saturated. Transpiration is both too slow and to imprecise to be of concern.

What is necessary is to prevent differential freezing from the top down - that is what destroys grouted pavers.


not just differential freezing, any freeze/thaw cycling when too much water is present causes spalling.

And that is why *EITHER* great care is taken to match the grout density to the paver density, *OR* the surface must be rendered impervious to moisture. If one is lucky enough to have a mason trained in the fine art of grouting, then that is the ideal.

Now, if this were to be an indoor application, then you would be absolutely correct - either a vapor barrier must be installed below the top layer (which also becomes a "paper" joint) or the top layer must be left unsealed. Note that indoor applications are seldom exposed to freeze-thaw cycles. That is why all if this suddenly becomes much more than a casual exercise.


indeed, though indoor construction is not the same as outdoor, except for a small number of historic properties


NT

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Old January 29th 19, 01:41 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

Couple of things:

Here in the US, especially here in the Great Frozen North, if one does not bed walkways (and sidewalks) properly, their longevity is half-a-hand in years, at best. And if they are grouted, one (1) rough winter will be enough. Bed it, or lose it.

Freezing will always occur from the top down. Thawing, however, may be from either direction based on initial frost depth, nature of the soil(s) and so forth. And why all this is something of a skilled art form. Not to be done willy-nilly.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Old January 29th 19, 02:48 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Tuesday, 29 January 2019 13:41:13 UTC, wrote:
Couple of things:

Here in the US, especially here in the Great Frozen North, if one does not bed walkways (and sidewalks) properly, their longevity is half-a-hand in years, at best. And if they are grouted, one (1) rough winter will be enough. Bed it, or lose it.

Freezing will always occur from the top down. Thawing, however, may be from either direction based on initial frost depth, nature of the soil(s) and so forth. And why all this is something of a skilled art form. Not to be done willy-nilly.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Stone paths bedded direct onto soil last a very long time here. Some from over a century ago are still in service after occasional repairs. Not sure why the difference.


NT
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Old January 29th 19, 04:54 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

Parts of the Appian Way are still level.

http://www.romeacrosseurope.com/?p=5....8ChQejPz.dpbs

Simple enough questions:

a) Are these paths grouted (mortar between the stones)? That was what initiated the discussion.
b) How deep are the stone paths?
c) What is the size of the stones?
d) Will the climate in your area go from 50F to 4F to 35F to 58F to 24F, include 1" of rain and 2" of snow all in a 96 hour period? That is our forecast this week.

My understanding of the climate in the British Isles is, for the most part, that it is damp but pretty benign given the warming by the Gulf Stream. Sure, Scotland and some of the islands to get some extremes, but not quite the variability.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

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Old February 2nd 19, 04:28 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 1:52:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 12:44:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am sorry, to realize I did NOT post to my desired net board!! My
oops


You will find a multiplicity of talents herein. I have 40+ years in and around the construction industry from holding the tools to forensic analysis. Others have similar off-label experiences and skills.

Something off-topic, but also relevant to M&R can be refreshing.

Or, not to worry!


Agreed. My electrical construction experience is only since 1996, but you work around other contractors. The experience is enhanced.
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Old February 9th 19, 07:45 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Sunday, January 27, 2019 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:
... off topic question ...


His topic is removal of grout; so the question and replies
are on topic. The topic is out of the scope of this group
of course.

Regards, ... Peter E.

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Old February 10th 19, 04:00 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, January 27, 2019 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:
... off topic question ...


His topic is removal of grout; so the question and replies
are on topic. The topic is out of the scope of this group
of course.


It is on topic, because sometimes metallic and non-metallic electrical conduit runs through fill encased in concrete.
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Old February 10th 19, 04:04 AM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Default How to Remove Concrete Grouting

On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, January 27, 2019 at 11:02:20 AM UTC-8, Michael Black wrote:
... off topic question ...


His topic is removal of grout; so the question and replies
are on topic. The topic is out of the scope of this group
of course.


It is on topic, because sometimes non-metallic electrical conduit runs through fill that is encased in concrete.


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