Although I used someone's frequency counter back around the 1970s, I
never owned one. From what I recall, back then, there was a BNC
connector on the unit, where test leads connected and were used to
determine the frequency within a radio stage, or used to check the
output from a signal generator.

I'm looking on Ebay and seeing some costly ones selling for $100 and up,
which have lots of buttons and connectors. -OR- seeing some that are
listed to go from 1 CPS to 70 or 80 MHZ, which tells me that they can
show audio frequencies, and up to the 70 or 80 MHZ limit, which means
they will work for AM radio, many Ham bands, CB radio, but *NOT* FM
radio.

Then what caught my eye were these inexpensive handheld ones, such as:
http://tinyurl.com/y84hun67

However, these do NOT have BNC connectors. Just an antenna. (No test
lead connector), So, obviously, they can not read audio freqs, and can
not be used to check the stage in a radio, but should probably pickup
the output from a signal generator if the sig gen test leads are held
near the antenna.

However, this device (above URL) only covers 50 MHZ to 2.4 GHZ. That
means it's worthless for AM radio, CB radio, and many lower Ham bands.
(In my case, this would be pretty useless, since I mostly work on radios
that are AM FM CB or SWR.

Ideally, something that covered 1CPS to 110 MHZ would be best suited for
my needs, but I cant find anything like that, at least not in the price
range of $50 or less. (which is what I am willing to pay for something I
wont get real much use from).

My antique Eico 320 Signal Gen only goes a little over 100 MHZ, so once
again, the example URL I posted would not be real helpful.

So, I am pretty confused. What's better, an antenna or test leads?

Do they actually make and sell LOW PRICED Freq Counters that go from 1
CPS to 110 MHZ or so?

Then again, it almost appears that to get full coverage of all
Frequencies, a person needs to buy TWO Freq counters, since UHF TV
covers the 470 to 806 MHZ. But once again, what good is a Freq Counter
with no test leads (just an antenna) for use on television?

On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:

Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

Or, maybe one of these variations:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-6LED-1MHz-1000MHz-1GHz-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-G-/222009256193
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1MHz-1200MHz-RF-Frequency-Counter-Tester-Digital-LED-METER-Cymometer-f-Ham-Radio-/331915125484
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-0-91-OLED-RF-1Hz-2-4GHz-Frequency-Counter-Meter-Cymometer-Tester-/172692754650

You can also use a mixer to take a higher frequency signal, and mix it
down to something lower that the counter can handle. I have some HP
microwave counters that work like that.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 28/05/17 04:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:

Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

I have two of those. I bought the second because I thought I'd
broken the first, it performed so badly. They're as bad as each
other.

If you have a strong and stable signal, it can work ok, but
the input design is poor. The HF and the pre-scaler both
have dual-gate mosfets, but there's no gain control (automatic
or otherwise) and the inputs are paralleled. I've disconnected
the two inputs by cutting a track and soldered on a little bit
of RG-158 to an SMA connector for the high range.

I'd love it if Mike is willing to share some of his counter
front-end wisdom.

On Sun, 28 May 2017 08:09:04 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote:

On 28/05/17 04:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:

Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

I have two of those. I bought the second because I thought I'd
broken the first, it performed so badly. They're as bad as each
other.

Thanks. I was thinking of buying some of those. I should have known
as much of the low cost "modules" that I've purchased seem to have
deficiencies as a result of crude design or cost cutting exercises.

To clarify my my comments a little, I was not recommending the
purchase of any of the devices I pointed to on eBay. I meant them as
examples of devices that have prescalers, which was part of the OP's
rant on requiring multiple counters to cover the frequency range. My
comment "Something like this:" usually preceeds something that I
haven't worked with.

If you have a strong and stable signal, it can work ok, but
the input design is poor. The HF and the pre-scaler both
have dual-gate mosfets, but there's no gain control (automatic
or otherwise) and the inputs are paralleled. I've disconnected
the two inputs by cutting a track and soldered on a little bit
of RG-158 to an SMA connector for the high range.

I picked that particular example because it has a drawing of the PCB
showing i/o and controls:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hBYAAOSwAPVZGlOn/s-l1600.jpg
It has two adjustments labelled "High channel sensitivity adjust"
which I guess would help with the tiggering. Do these controls work,
or were they deleted in yet another cost cutting exercise?

I'd love it if Mike is willing to share some of his counter
front-end wisdom.

The OP has not disclosed how he plans to use the counter. If it's a
bench instrument, that requires precision, I suggest any of the
numerous used HP counters available on eBay.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=hp+universal+counter
Especially the HP 5300 series:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+5300+counter&tbm=isch
I have accumulated a fair collection of these and find that used
counters are a far better deal than the eBay instruments, such as:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-VC3165-Radio-Frequency-Counter-RF-Meter-0-01Hz-2-4GHz-K8M3/122448388056

Incidentally, since the OP is into tubes, my favorite counter is an HP
5248M with genuine Nixie tubes. Middle right above the spectrum
analyzer:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/lab.html
The pile of 4 plugins under the Glad bag box are the various mixer
type downconverters I previously mentioned. I also have an HP 5245L:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/repair-of-hp-5245l-nixie-frequency-counter/?action=dlattach;attach=204375;image
Cheap but scarce on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Hewlett-Packard-5248L-Electronic-Counter-5254C-Frequency-Converter-15-3-0GHz-/182520538437



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 28/05/17 14:25, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2017 08:09:04 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote:
On 28/05/17 04:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:
Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
I have two of those. I bought the second because I thought I'd
broken the first, it performed so badly. They're as bad as each
other.
Thanks. I was thinking of buying some of those. I should have known
as much of the low cost "modules" that I've purchased seem to have
deficiencies as a result of crude design or cost cutting exercises.

It was developed by a good hobbyist who posted everything online.

I think that full schematics of slightly earlier versions are
available online. He uses a dual-gate MOSFET before the prescaler
and before the main counter, with the inputs paralleled. I think
that affects the sensitivity (though I don't have measurements)
so for my 2nd module, I cut a track to separate the input paths.
I might wind up adding an independent input amplifier with AGC,
or even a pot to adjust the 2nd gate bias on the MOSFETs for a
manual gain control. A little difficult though, as parts of the
circuit are underneath the LED displays, so I'd need to remove
those.

The main counter is a PIC.

On Sun, 28 May 2017 16:13:52 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote:

On 28/05/17 14:25, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 28 May 2017 08:09:04 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote:
On 28/05/17 04:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:
Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
I have two of those. I bought the second because I thought I'd
broken the first, it performed so badly. They're as bad as each
other.
Thanks. I was thinking of buying some of those. I should have known
as much of the low cost "modules" that I've purchased seem to have
deficiencies as a result of crude design or cost cutting exercises.

It was developed by a good hobbyist who posted everything online.

I couldn't find any such project. I suspect that it might have gone
the same way as the various M328 component test meters being sold
online. The original project was open source. It was then
commercialized by various vendors with wildly varying pricing. Much
of the stuff I've found was early versions of the board and firmware.
Meanwhile, the project has done on to add features and improve the
firmware, but the online stuff seems stuck with early revisions. This
link includes some history:
http://www.instructables.com/id/AVR-Transistor-Tester/
I can't seem to find the original development site, which was in
Germany.

I think that full schematics of slightly earlier versions are
available online. He uses a dual-gate MOSFET before the prescaler
and before the main counter, with the inputs paralleled. I think
that affects the sensitivity (though I don't have measurements)
so for my 2nd module, I cut a track to separate the input paths.

If the amplifier is used to simply produce a square wave out of
whatever it fed into the input, low gain might be a big problem. So
will noise around 0v which is why a "threshold" adjustment is usually
supplied. Getting such a simple amplifier to work from 0.1MHz to
2.4GHz is unlikely, which might explain the lack of sensitivity.

I might wind up adding an independent input amplifier with AGC,
or even a pot to adjust the 2nd gate bias on the MOSFETs for a
manual gain control. A little difficult though, as parts of the
circuit are underneath the LED displays, so I'd need to remove
those.

May I suggest that you remove the input amp and setup something that
give the prescaler a 50 ohm input. Then, design a broadband RF
amplifier that has a chance of working over the frequency range.
Something similar to a CATV or OTA TV/FM amplifier might be suitable.
However, don't worry about getting a flat frequency response. Just
take whatever you can get that produces enough drive to make the
MB501L prescaler happy. A collection of communications freq range
bandpass filters would be nice to prevent triggering on out of band
junk.

The main counter is a PIC.

I'm not PICky.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 27 May 2017 21:25:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Sign...nter-Cymometer
-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

I have two of those. I bought the second because I thought I'd
broken the first, it performed so badly. They're as bad as each
other.

Thanks. I was thinking of buying some of those. I should have known
as much of the low cost "modules" that I've purchased seem to have
deficiencies as a result of crude design or cost cutting exercises.

To clarify my my comments a little, I was not recommending the
purchase of any of the devices I pointed to on eBay. I meant them as
examples of devices that have prescalers, which was part of the OP's
rant on requiring multiple counters to cover the frequency range. My
comment "Something like this:" usually preceeds something that I
haven't worked with.

If you have a strong and stable signal, it can work ok, but
the input design is poor. The HF and the pre-scaler both
have dual-gate mosfets, but there's no gain control (automatic
or otherwise) and the inputs are paralleled. I've disconnected
the two inputs by cutting a track and soldered on a little bit
of RG-158 to an SMA connector for the high range.

I picked that particular example because it has a drawing of the PCB
showing i/o and controls:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hBYAAOSwAPVZGlOn/s-l1600.jpg
It has two adjustments labelled "High channel sensitivity adjust"
which I guess would help with the tiggering. Do these controls work,
or were they deleted in yet another cost cutting exercise?

Although I am not willing to spend big money on this, I tend to avoid
those super cheap boards with no cabinets. I dont know how they can even
sell them that cheap, so obviously they are not quality. Not to mention
it costs 5 times the price of the board to buy some sort of box to put
those boards in, and for all the connectors and stuff. So, by that time
I'd have $25 or $30 invested. I'd rather find a complete unit that is
better quality and eliminate all the hours it takes to put them into
some sort of box. Making boxes and drilling all the holes and that sort
of thing has never been something I am real fond of anyhow.

I am currently looking at a Hickok 380, several HP counters, and a C&C
150. That Hickok is a BID sale, which means I dont have much of a chance
of getting it. (Being on dialup, I cant place a bid in the last 10
seconds). Normally I dont even bother with bid sales, and just do the
"Buy It Now" items.

The HPs are all over my price range, but I dont need to buy it today or
even this week. I can wait till I find a better deal. That C&C 150 seems
like a real good deal, (about $39 with shipping), but I have never heard
of that brand so I am looking to see if I can find more reviews of it.
It appears to be a rather high-end device, with lots of features and a
very wide freq range.

My main reason to get a counter is mostly just to check the frequency
coming from my Signal Generator. Having one that also checks audio freqs
would be kind of nice, since I have a tone generator that I'd like to be
able to know the frequencies it's outputting, but that is not an
absolute necessity.

I probably got more use from the Freq counter I used in the 70s (which
was borrowed). Back then I was doing a lot with CB radios and that
counter would check the CB channel output for accuracy. But I dont do
much with CBs anymore, since no one uses them now.

In article ,
says...



Although I am not willing to spend big money on this, I tend to avoid
those super cheap boards with no cabinets. I dont know how they can even
sell them that cheap, so obviously they are not quality. Not to mention
it costs 5 times the price of the board to buy some sort of box to put
those boards in, and for all the connectors and stuff. So, by that time
I'd have $25 or $30 invested. I'd rather find a complete unit that is
better quality and eliminate all the hours it takes to put them into
some sort of box. Making boxes and drilling all the holes and that sort
of thing has never been something I am real fond of anyhow.

I am currently looking at a Hickok 380, several HP counters, and a C&C
150. That Hickok is a BID sale, which means I dont have much of a chance
of getting it. (Being on dialup, I cant place a bid in the last 10
seconds). Normally I dont even bother with bid sales, and just do the
"Buy It Now" items.


YOu really need to buy one of the used service monitors. They can be
had for around $ 1000. You get a counter signal generator and many more
things.

On 5/28/2017 3:03 AM, wrote:
I am currently looking at a Hickok 380, several HP counters, and a C&C
150. That Hickok is a BID sale, which means I dont have much of a chance
of getting it. (Being on dialup, I cant place a bid in the last 10
seconds). Normally I dont even bother with bid sales, and just do the
"Buy It Now" items.

Have you been living under a rock for the past 20 years?
https://www.esnipe.com/


--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 21:25:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


Although I am not willing to spend big money on this, I tend to avoid
those super cheap boards with no cabinets. I dont know how they can
even sell them that cheap, so obviously they are not quality. Not to
mention it costs 5 times the price of the board to buy some sort of
box to put those boards in, and for all the connectors and stuff. So,
by that time I'd have $25 or $30 invested. I'd rather find a complete
unit that is better quality and eliminate all the hours it takes to
put them into some sort of box. Making boxes and drilling all the
holes and that sort of thing has never been something I am real fond
of anyhow.

I am currently looking at a Hickok 380, several HP counters, and a C&C
150. That Hickok is a BID sale, which means I dont have much of a
chance of getting it. (Being on dialup, I cant place a bid in the
last 10 seconds). Normally I dont even bother with bid sales, and
just do the "Buy It Now" items.

The HPs are all over my price range, but I dont need to buy it today
or even this week. I can wait till I find a better deal. That C&C 150
seems like a real good deal, (about $39 with shipping), but I have
never heard of that brand so I am looking to see if I can find more
reviews of it. It appears to be a rather high-end device, with lots
of features and a very wide freq range.

My main reason to get a counter is mostly just to check the frequency
coming from my Signal Generator. Having one that also checks audio
freqs would be kind of nice, since I have a tone generator that I'd
like to be able to know the frequencies it's outputting, but that is
not an absolute necessity.

I probably got more use from the Freq counter I used in the 70s (which
was borrowed). Back then I was doing a lot with CB radios and that
counter would check the CB channel output for accuracy. But I dont do
much with CBs anymore, since no one uses them now.

Can't blame you a bit for not jumping on those "kits" mentioned previously.
Often more trouble than they're worth when you consider all the other stuff
you have to buy and then all the work to assemble and make work.
The C&C 150 seems like a pretty good deal for you. Certainly in your price
range, and appears to be a decent entry level counter. You can get a manual
from the manufacturer' web site
(http://www.cncinst.co.kr/english/bbs...ual&wr_id=13);
(Registration required, but nothing out of reason, like credit card numbers,
etc.)

You'll probably find out, if you research "reciprocal counters" (of which,
this is one) that they offer much better resolution than other "normal"
counters, especially at low audio frequencies. This is a good thing, since
you can select a shorter gate time for the measurement than normal counters.
If you want to measure an audio tone of, say 123.4 Hz, you'd need to select
a gate time of 10 seconds to get the last digit to display. With a
reciprocal counter, you can select a gate time of 1 second, or even 0.1
second, and see all the digits the counter can display. It actually
measures the period of a signal, and a microcomputer inside the counter does
a bit of math to calculate and display the frequency with all the digits the
counter is capable of displaying.

Good luck with your choice,
Dave M

On Sat, 27 May 2017, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:

Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620
The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

I"m assuming those really cheap portable counters are using prescalers,
since they only start counting at 50MHz or something. INtended for two
way radio checking I assume, so you don't need the lower frequencies, and
a whip or rubber duckie antenna will pick up the output power fine.

I've certainly thought about buying one of those cheap ones, hoping I
could bypass the prescaler, though I suspect another issue, the prescaler
isn't a decade counter. Back when Heathkit came out with a frequency
counter, circa 1971, the prescalers were decade counters, and things got
better as they improved, and the frequency counters had higher limits.
But that sort of IC seems out of fashion now, so the prescalers are meant
for other things, and offer a binary division, so bypassing it in the
counter (and maybe adding an input stage) means the clock for the counter
is "wrong".

Michael

Michael Black wrote on 5/27/2017 7:24 PM:
On Sat, 27 May 2017, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 27 May 2017 12:55:02 -0400, wrote:

Look for something that has a built in prescaler. Something like
this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620

The basic counter goes from 100KHz to 60MHz. The other ranges use a
prescaler to divide down the input frequency so that it ends up at
less than 60MHz and can be counted.

I"m assuming those really cheap portable counters are using prescalers,
since they only start counting at 50MHz or something. INtended for two way
radio checking I assume, so you don't need the lower frequencies, and a whip
or rubber duckie antenna will pick up the output power fine.

I've certainly thought about buying one of those cheap ones, hoping I could
bypass the prescaler, though I suspect another issue, the prescaler isn't a
decade counter. Back when Heathkit came out with a frequency counter, circa
1971, the prescalers were decade counters, and things got better as they
improved, and the frequency counters had higher limits. But that sort of IC
seems out of fashion now, so the prescalers are meant for other things, and
offer a binary division, so bypassing it in the counter (and maybe adding an
input stage) means the clock for the counter is "wrong".

I don't think the prescaler is the problem is it? The problem is the
inappropriate front end. If you design a decent front end and feed the
prescaler with that signal it should work at lower frequencies ok. It may
not have timing controls to let you measure below some 10s of Hz or so, but
is that really a problem? Or do the prescalers work in some way I'm not
familiar with so they just don't operate at lower frequencies?

--

Rick C

The Prickman Liar wrote:

--------------------------


I don't think the prescaler is the problem is it? The problem is the
inappropriate front end. If you design a decent front end and feed the
prescaler with that signal it should work at lower frequencies ok. It may
not have timing controls to let you measure below some 10s of Hz or so, but
is that really a problem? Or do the prescalers work in some way I'm not
familiar with so they just don't operate at lower frequencies?




** Wow !!

Is it just dawning on this total moron that he is one ?




..... Phil

On Sat, 27 May 2017 19:24:00 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

I've certainly thought about buying one of those cheap ones, hoping I
could bypass the prescaler, though I suspect another issue, the prescaler
isn't a decade counter. Back when Heathkit came out with a frequency
counter, circa 1971, the prescalers were decade counters, and things got
better as they improved, and the frequency counters had higher limits.
But that sort of IC seems out of fashion now, so the prescalers are meant
for other things, and offer a binary division, so bypassing it in the
counter (and maybe adding an input stage) means the clock for the counter
is "wrong".
Michael

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620

To get from 2400 MHz to 60 MHz requires dividing by 40. However, that
doesn't seem to be how this one works.

Checking the prescaler chip from the photos,
http://img.yunqudao.com/UploadFolder/4f2543ab-bfc8-48f0-9aff-c49e51612b75/Default/40_6.jpg
I find a Fujitsu MB501L prescaler:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/61659/FUJITSU/MB501L/+4155-UwSHHTTVdRhCtYT+/datasheet.pdf
That's a 64/65 or 128/129 prescaler for a dual modulous synthesizer. I
would guess(tm) that the eBay counter would use divide by 64 to get:
2400 / 64 = 37.5 MHz
which is too low to utilize the full 60 MHz counter range.

However, there's a problem. The MB501L prescaler is only rated to
1.1GHz. How they claim 2.4GHz will remain a mystery. If I had this
counter (and a clean workbench), I would probe it to see what they're
really doing. I couldn't find a schematic.

There are some handheld counters that count to 60Mhz, and use a divide
by 40 prescaler, which results in the proper frequency ranges:
2400 / 40 = 60 Mhz
However, I can't find an example right now. The 40 is achieved with a
divide by 4 followed by divide by 10, which I guess qualifies as a
decade prescaler of sorts. As I recall, it was usually done with 2
ECL chips, which sucked plenty of power and were not cheap.

Here's another way to use a prescaler:
http://www.startek-usa.com/FREQ%20CTRS.htm
The frequency ranges a
50MHz, 800MHz, and 2800MHz
which correspond to:
/1 /16 and possibly /64
Sorry, but no schematic or block diagram found.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 29/05/17 02:16, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2017 19:24:00 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

I've certainly thought about buying one of those cheap ones, hoping I
could bypass the prescaler, though I suspect another issue, the prescaler
isn't a decade counter. Back when Heathkit came out with a frequency
counter, circa 1971, the prescalers were decade counters, and things got
better as they improved, and the frequency counters had higher limits.
But that sort of IC seems out of fashion now, so the prescalers are meant
for other things, and offer a binary division, so bypassing it in the
counter (and maybe adding an input stage) means the clock for the counter
is "wrong".
Michael

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-RF-Signal-Frequency-Counter-Cymometer-Tester-0-1-60MHz-20MHz-2400MHZ/172396798620

To get from 2400 MHz to 60 MHz requires dividing by 40. However, that
doesn't seem to be how this one works.

Checking the prescaler chip from the photos,
http://img.yunqudao.com/UploadFolder/4f2543ab-bfc8-48f0-9aff-c49e51612b75/Default/40_6.jpg
I find a Fujitsu MB501L prescaler:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/61659/FUJITSU/MB501L/+4155-UwSHHTTVdRhCtYT+/datasheet.pdf
That's a 64/65 or 128/129 prescaler for a dual modulous synthesizer. I
would guess(tm) that the eBay counter would use divide by 64 to get:
2400 / 64 = 37.5 MHz
which is too low to utilize the full 60 MHz counter range.

However, there's a problem. The MB501L prescaler is only rated to
1.1GHz. How they claim 2.4GHz will remain a mystery.

I assume the MB501 was 2c cheaper than the MB506 that the project
was designed with. Find one of the many versions that actually use
the MB506 instead.

On 5/27/2017 9:55 AM, wrote:
Although I used someone's frequency counter back around the 1970s, I
never owned one. From what I recall, back then, there was a BNC
connector on the unit, where test leads connected and were used to
determine the frequency within a radio stage, or used to check the
output from a signal generator.

I'm looking on Ebay and seeing some costly ones selling for $100 and up,
which have lots of buttons and connectors. -OR- seeing some that are
listed to go from 1 CPS to 70 or 80 MHZ, which tells me that they can
show audio frequencies, and up to the 70 or 80 MHZ limit, which means
they will work for AM radio, many Ham bands, CB radio, but *NOT* FM
radio.

Then what caught my eye were these inexpensive handheld ones, such as:
http://tinyurl.com/y84hun67

However, these do NOT have BNC connectors. Just an antenna. (No test
lead connector), So, obviously, they can not read audio freqs, and can
not be used to check the stage in a radio, but should probably pickup
the output from a signal generator if the sig gen test leads are held
near the antenna.

However, this device (above URL) only covers 50 MHZ to 2.4 GHZ. That
means it's worthless for AM radio, CB radio, and many lower Ham bands.
(In my case, this would be pretty useless, since I mostly work on radios
that are AM FM CB or SWR.

Ideally, something that covered 1CPS to 110 MHZ would be best suited for
my needs, but I cant find anything like that, at least not in the price
range of $50 or less. (which is what I am willing to pay for something I
wont get real much use from).

My antique Eico 320 Signal Gen only goes a little over 100 MHZ, so once
again, the example URL I posted would not be real helpful.

So, I am pretty confused. What's better, an antenna or test leads?

Do they actually make and sell LOW PRICED Freq Counters that go from 1
CPS to 110 MHZ or so?

Then again, it almost appears that to get full coverage of all
Frequencies, a person needs to buy TWO Freq counters, since UHF TV
covers the 470 to 806 MHZ. But once again, what good is a Freq Counter
with no test leads (just an antenna) for use on television?

What good is a frequency counter WITH test leads for television.
Where are you gonna connect those leads and what's the signal level
there? And how do you measure channel 40 when channel 42 is 10x stronger.





You suffer from test equipment buyer's exaggeration.
"I dunno what I want so gimme EVERYTHING, and then some, for cheap."

Take a step back and decide what you need to measure that you didn't
need for the last 50 years.

I designed frequency counters for a living back in the day. I have more
than a few. I haven't turned one on in more than a decade, and here's
why...

FOR CHEAP COUNTERS:
They're inaccurate.
If you're setting a radio frequency, you want an ACCURATE counter.
Most other times, the accuracy is irrelevant. It's go/nogo.
The accuracy and stability of the timebase may be the most important
parameter.
What do you want to do?

They're insensitive.
You typically can't go probing around in equipment and learn anything.
A counter typically reads the biggest signal it hears.
You might find that everything reads 120Hz.
Probing around in a radio circuit may detune it.
What do you want to do?

I find an oscilloscope to be a more useful tool. You can read the frequency
right off the screen with sufficient precision for most troubleshooting
tasks.
And you can do it in the presence of noise that might render a counter
useless.

Expensive counters have a few bucks worth of counting stuff.
The majority of the expense is in the timebase and the front end
that helps you trigger on what you want to observe. All those
knobs are there for a reason.

If you need more accuracy, you probably need a LOT more accuracy.

Draw a frequency chart from 0 to 2.4 GHz. Put an arrow at every frequency
where you ever needed to measure a frequency and the specs of
the counter you'd have needed to do it.
Let that be your guide. You might decide that you still don't need
a counter that you can afford. ;-)

You can do audio with a cellphone app. Just be careful what you plug
into that microphone jack.

This seems to be closer to what you want.
EBAY ID 401196543325
If it has a removable antenna with signal and ground connections, you
can make test leads. Just be careful with DC or too much signal
breaking it.

mike wrote:




You suffer from test equipment buyer's exaggeration.
"I dunno what I want so gimme EVERYTHING, and then some, for cheap."

Take a step back and decide what you need to measure that you didn't
need for the last 50 years.

I designed frequency counters for a living back in the day. I have more
than a few. I haven't turned one on in more than a decade, and here's
why...

FOR CHEAP COUNTERS:
They're inaccurate.


** Anything using a crystal time base will have good accuracy.


If you're setting a radio frequency, you want an ACCURATE counter.
Most other times, the accuracy is irrelevant. It's go/nogo.
The accuracy and stability of the timebase may be the most important
parameter.
What do you want to do?

They're insensitive.
You typically can't go probing around in equipment and learn anything.


** Yep, RF circuits are very load sensitive and you will need a FET probe to buffer the signal.

But any counter will read the carrier frequency of a transmitter, long as it has a few milliwatts of output.

Radio mics operating in the VHF and UHF bands can be read by placing them close to a short antenna attached to the BNC input.

Analogue mobile phones (remember them) would read from 5 yards away.



...... Phil

On 5/27/2017 6:25 PM, Phil Allison wrote:


** Anything using a crystal time base will have good accuracy.



..... Phil


I don't expect anything I could say would change your mind.
We'll just have to disagree on that.

mike wrote:

---------------

Phil Allison wrote:


** Anything using a crystal time base will have good accuracy.


I don't expect anything I could say would change your mind.



** Why I change my mind when what I posted is correct ??


We'll just have to disagree on that.


** You must enjoy being wrong.

You have nothing that explains your strange opinion ?




..... Phil

On 28/05/2017 12:20 PM, mike wrote:
On 5/27/2017 6:25 PM, Phil Allison wrote:


** Anything using a crystal time base will have good accuracy.



..... Phil


I don't expect anything I could say would change your mind.
We'll just have to disagree on that.



**Here is a crystal I specified for a project back in the 1990s (because
it was cheap). I paid AUS$0.22 each for them in 1,000 quantity. It's
cheap because it is typically used in clocks.

http://au.element14.com/ael-crystals...mhz/dp/9509585

Here is the technical data:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/31...801.1495964215

+/- 20PPM is very decent accuracy. Plenty good enough for regular
domestic service. Certainly, for professional stuff, you'll need an oven
for the crystal.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:

-------------------

mike wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:



** Anything using a crystal time base will have good accuracy.



I don't expect anything I could say would change your mind.
We'll just have to disagree on that.



**Here is a crystal I specified for a project back in the 1990s (because
it was cheap). I paid AUS$0.22 each for them in 1,000 quantity. It's
cheap because it is typically used in clocks.

http://au.element14.com/ael-crystals...mhz/dp/9509585

Here is the technical data:

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/31...801.1495964215

+/- 20PPM is very decent accuracy. Plenty good enough for regular
domestic service. Certainly, for professional stuff, you'll need an oven
for the crystal.


** Please note that the tempco of 50ppm over the range of -10C to 60C.

So well under 1ppm per degree C !!!

The initial accuracy can easily be trimmed to under 1ppm match the usual operating temp - say 20 C.

Put those simple facts together and it ain't difficult to get 5ppm accuracy in your workshop.

Just don't put the X-tal next to a hot component on the PCB - like Jim Rowe of EA did with their 1GHz counter.




..... Phil