Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,243
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 10/03/2016 07:23, mike wrote:
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


Any inductance with the 497R ? perhaps a small relay in the handle
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,375
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 10/03/16 07:23, mike wrote:
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


Probably it's a diode, and an auto-ranging DMM showing forward voltage
not resistance.

e.g.

http://www.tmatlantic.com/upload/akt...Diode_Test.jpg

Try reversing the test leads?


--
Adrian C
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 10/03/2016 13:42, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/16 07:23, mike wrote:
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


Probably it's a diode, and an auto-ranging DMM showing forward voltage
not resistance.

e.g.

http://www.tmatlantic.com/upload/akt...Diode_Test.jpg

Try reversing the test leads?



Diode would make an excellent temp sensor, but you would have it right
at the duty end, for minimum time-lag, are there high-temperature diodes
? or a way to have a fast-response normal diode set in a
thermal-conductance scaled-down insulated sub-housing?
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 10/03/2016 14:03, N_Cook wrote:
On 10/03/2016 13:42, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/16 07:23, mike wrote:
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


Probably it's a diode, and an auto-ranging DMM showing forward voltage
not resistance.

e.g.

http://www.tmatlantic.com/upload/akt...Diode_Test.jpg

Try reversing the test leads?



Diode would make an excellent temp sensor, but you would have it right
at the duty end, for minimum time-lag, are there high-temperature diodes
? or a way to have a fast-response normal diode set in a
thermal-conductance scaled-down insulated sub-housing?


Just got me thinking. Is there a soldering iron control system that uses
an IR pyro sensor , set well back in the handle , in sight of but can
monitor the heater block from afar?


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,375
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 10/03/16 14:03, N_Cook wrote:
On 10/03/2016 13:42, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 10/03/16 07:23, mike wrote:
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


Probably it's a diode, and an auto-ranging DMM showing forward voltage
not resistance.

e.g.

http://www.tmatlantic.com/upload/akt...Diode_Test.jpg

Try reversing the test leads?



Diode would make an excellent temp sensor, but you would have it right
at the duty end, for minimum time-lag, are there high-temperature diodes
? or a way to have a fast-response normal diode set in a
thermal-conductance scaled-down insulated sub-housing?


Yes, I started thinking that after posting. Who knows?

--
Adrian C
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

The problem with soldering iron control is putting a temp sensor in the
heater block , if you can get away with simple heater and replaceable
tips only, keeps the costs down (and swapping-out universality up , for
hacker types).
Ah so no manufacturer would want that. Another thing to try out sometime
as a proving exercise.


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,228
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?


"mike" wrote in message
...
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?



After a quick search here is some info I found. Seems that there is no
feedback for the iron.

On 3/25/2013 10:58 AM, Wild_Bill wrote:
If you take the plug apart on the Ungar soldering iron cable (not fun),
you'll see there is a mini variable resistor inside the plug.. no sensor
used for the iron, in case I forgot to mention that.

The variable resistor is used to set/match the iron temp to the chart
supplied with the soldering station (so all the models have some
consistency when set to lowest to highest temp settings).



  #9   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

With an ordinary optical BPW21 photodiode with 18Meg resistor and DVM
over it, in a dark room, a good regular 10mV range bewtween on and off
of a magnastat iron with the window 1 inch from the barrel.
So could easily make a highly responsive temp-controlled iron with
simple heater and tips, what is drift like of photodiodes?
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,243
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 3/10/2016 7:43 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
...
I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?



After a quick search here is some info I found. Seems that there is no
feedback for the iron.

On 3/25/2013 10:58 AM, Wild_Bill wrote:
If you take the plug apart on the Ungar soldering iron cable (not fun),
you'll see there is a mini variable resistor inside the plug.. no sensor
used for the iron, in case I forgot to mention that.

The variable resistor is used to set/match the iron temp to the chart
supplied with the soldering station (so all the models have some
consistency when set to lowest to highest temp settings).



Thanks for all the thinking outside the box...
The calibration resistor seems like the most likely scenario.
There is some PTC. If I cool the tip, the current goes up somewhat.
Looks like all I need is a variable voltage source.
Where'd I put that box of old laptop power supplies???
It gets hot enough to melt solder on 12V, but haven't determined
whether it puts out enough heat to do real soldering work at 12V.

As for the IR sensor, yes, that's done.
I have some industrial grade hot air handpieces that have a sensor
outside the air path pointed at the heating element.
If you restrict the air flow, the element glows brighter for an instant,
then throttles back.


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,228
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?


"mike" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the thinking outside the box...
The calibration resistor seems like the most likely scenario.
There is some PTC. If I cool the tip, the current goes up somewhat.
Looks like all I need is a variable voltage source.
Where'd I put that box of old laptop power supplies???
It gets hot enough to melt solder on 12V, but haven't determined
whether it puts out enough heat to do real soldering work at 12V.


Most common conductors except carbon will increase the resistance when hot
and lower it when cold. When you cooled the tip , the resistance got lower
so the current went up. If designed correctly, most simple heaters are sort
of self regulating as to the temperature of the heating element provided the
voltage feeding it is constant.

I think I saw the voltage for the 9911 was 24 volts for the maximum designed
heat output.


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,249
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

Adrian Caspersz wrote:


Anybody know how these work?


Probably it's a diode, and an auto-ranging DMM showing forward voltage
not resistance.


** Diodes have a strong negative temperature co-efficient, about -2mV per C for silicon types. Plus cannot tolerate temps above 200C at all.



..... Phil
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,249
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

mike wrote:

I have an Ungar 9911 soldering iron handpiece
without the controller. Looks new.

I thought it would be trivial to build a temperature
controller.
I can make it hot. There is some PTC going on
as the current goes down as the iron heats up.

I expected some feedback.
The only other connector pins that have some
connectivity measure 497 ohms independently of
temperature. Can't use that for temperature monitoring.

Google has failed me.
Anybody know how these work?


** It is possible to use the rise in the resistance of the heater element as a temp sensor - but not so simple in a unit that claims to use zero crossing switching for power control.

My Hakko FX888 ( 24V, 70W) has a heater that measures 3ohms at room temp rising to 9 ohms at soldering temp. A feedback winding on the heater unit measures 47 ohms at room temp rising to 140 ohms at soldering temp - this is what control the tip temp.

..... Phil





  #14   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:16:45 AM UTC-8, N_Cook wrote:
The problem with soldering iron control is putting a temp sensor in the
heater block , if you can get away with simple heater and replaceable
tips only, keeps the costs down (and swapping-out universality up , for
hacker types).
Ah so no manufacturer would want that. Another thing to try out sometime
as a proving exercise.


Check out a Metcal. The heater element IS the temperature sensor. I've been using one for 15 years and wouldn't have anything else.


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

Just tried a 3mm LED sized, Telefunken S273P phototransistor on DVM-R
and showed regular follower 1M to 1.5M variation 1 inch from switching
magnastat iron barrel
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,247
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On 11/03/2016 09:21, mike wrote:
On 3/11/2016 12:11 AM, N_Cook wrote:
On 11/03/2016 06:13, wrote:
On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:16:45 AM UTC-8, N_Cook wrote:
The problem with soldering iron control is putting a temp sensor in the
heater block , if you can get away with simple heater and replaceable
tips only, keeps the costs down (and swapping-out universality up , for
hacker types).
Ah so no manufacturer would want that. Another thing to try out
sometime
as a proving exercise.

Check out a Metcal. The heater element IS the temperature sensor. I've
been using one for 15 years and wouldn't have anything else.




I was aware of them , when they first came out. Just checked the price
of them and they will stay in the suppliers.
My magnastat came from the one-time Ferguson site at Gosport , with 1986
melted into the plastic by "Jane" on the production line.
I've worked out a simple way of making my own magnastat tips and if the
element failed, have a reasonable chance of making my own heater
(assuming by then replacement heaters will be unavailable).


I'd like to hear more about how you make the magnastat tips.

I'd have to agree about Metcal. Best I ever used.
I picked up a big handful of tips at a swapmeet.
If I ever find a free Metcal station to plug them into, I'm in business.
I thought about using a ham radio transmitter, but that seemed like
overkill.


details on one of the tips (in other sense) files off
http://diverse.4mg.com/index.htm
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default Ungar 9911 soldering iron info?

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 12:11:37 AM UTC-8, N_Cook wrote:
On 11/03/2016 06:13, wrote:
On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 6:16:45 AM UTC-8, N_Cook wrote:
The problem with soldering iron control is putting a temp sensor in the
heater block , if you can get away with simple heater and replaceable
tips only, keeps the costs down (and swapping-out universality up , for
hacker types).
Ah so no manufacturer would want that. Another thing to try out sometime
as a proving exercise.


Check out a Metcal. The heater element IS the temperature sensor. I've been using one for 15 years and wouldn't have anything else.






I was aware of them , when they first came out. Just checked the price
of them and they will stay in the suppliers.
My magnastat came from the one-time Ferguson site at Gosport , with 1986
melted into the plastic by "Jane" on the production line.
I've worked out a simple way of making my own magnastat tips and if the
element failed, have a reasonable chance of making my own heater
(assuming by then replacement heaters will be unavailable).


New Metcals are definitely pricey but used ones can be had for a reasonable price. Power unit around $50, new wand is $100, add a $25 tip and you're still under $200. Over the years I've picked up over a dozen used ones for employers and friends. Two power units had failed and both were easily repairable. One Metcal is at work and it gets used 10-20 hours per week. My other Metcal is at home and is used much less but i don't like poor tools. I own 2 Weller magnastats but don't even pull them out of the garage any more.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
need schematic or pinout for Ungar 9900 soldering station. Wannause it on a Pace Iron. mike[_22_] Electronics Repair 19 September 2nd 15 01:00 AM
Ungar 9000 soldering station issue Gunner Asch[_6_] Metalworking 12 August 27th 10 05:12 AM
Soldering iron problems mc Electronics Repair 3 June 14th 07 02:14 AM
Soldering iron problems Arfa Daily Electronics Repair 0 June 13th 07 02:25 AM
Soldering Surface mount capacitor with Radio Shack Soldering iron? [email protected] Electronics Repair 12 February 10th 06 11:55 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"