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EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 2015-09-22, Scott Dorsey wrote:
This article is not exactly accurate. ... The point is that government malfeasance, which can and does result in massive death, rarely if ever goes punished. I don't know how much additional pollution is being caused by VW diesels or if the effect is even measurable given their relatively low numbers. I do know that governments routinely lie, cheat, steal, and kill (sometimes en masse) all in a day's work. There's no doubt that what VW did was bad, but the outcry seems out of proportion given the routine misdeeds of the State. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.) NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/22/2015 10:08 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-09-22, Scott Dorsey wrote: This article is not exactly accurate. ... The point is that government malfeasance, which can and does result in massive death, rarely if ever goes punished. I don't know how much additional pollution is being caused by VW diesels or if the effect is even measurable given their relatively low numbers. I do know that governments routinely lie, cheat, steal, and kill (sometimes en masse) all in a day's work. There's no doubt that what VW did was bad, but the outcry seems out of proportion given the routine misdeeds of the State. What a goof! |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote:
Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests Apparently 11 million cars are affected! Basically one in four cars in Europe also had the cheatware installed! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/bu...r-scandal.html "the company said that 11 million of its diesel cars worldwide were equipped with software that was used to cheat on emissions tests." |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
Ewald Böhm wrote:
My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? How Did the System Work? http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...explainer.html |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/22/2015 2:19 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests Apparently 11 million cars are affected! Basically one in four cars in Europe also had the cheatware installed! http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/bu...r-scandal.html "the company said that 11 million of its diesel cars worldwide were equipped with software that was used to cheat on emissions tests." Boggles the mind. "Oh ****, we got caught" |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
Jack Myers wrote:
I have seen a suggestion that the onboard computer takes note of the fact that the rear wheels are rotating and the front wheels are stationary. That seems plausible to me. Not all dynos work that way. I would expect such a dyno to drive the stability/ABS systems crazy, possibly SLAMMING on the brakes or other actions. (Most cars today are FRONT wheel drive, so the case would be the front wheels turning and the back stationary. For rear wheel drive trucks, of course, it is the opposite case. on these, it would be VERY hard to keep the truck on the rear wheel only dyno. If it started to drift to either side, the steering wheel could not get the tires centered back on the treadmill.) On such vehicles, it might be necessary to shut down the stability/ABS systems to even do these tests, which would clue in any test detection software. As for how the software could tell, this gives me an idea! The dynos have some considerable inertia, but it is likely much less that the inertia involved in accelerating the car to 60 MPH. So, the software might detect VERY easy acceleration to highway speed as a sign of a dyno test. This might also look like accelerating down a long hill, but if it goes on too long, it indicates minimal wind resistance. If you are cruising at 60 MPH with 4 HP effort, that would be a DEAD GIVEAWAY you are on a dyno! The emissions test dynos probably cannot absorb the output of a big car's engine to give it the normal highway load. That can be a LOT of power that you have to absorb for several minutes. Jon |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
Jack Black wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm wrote: My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf WOW, that's QUITE a document!! Thanks for the link! Jon |
EPA full of shit, VW was not cheating!
On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt. I would expect VW to program it's black boxes to use the minimum fuel for a given situation. If the car is on a dyno, there would be no wind resistance to push against so the fuel system *should* lower the fuel flow. I'd expect the same behavior if I was rolling down a mountain grade. Sheeeesh! |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:37:44 -0500, Mayayana
wrote: | My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? | There should be arrests. Either way, it's likely to be a serious, perhaps fatal, blow to the company. If it were Chevy I'm sure rednecks would come out of the woodwork to support "the company that denies global warming". But VW customers are almost a cult following, and mostly liberal. The Justice Department reached an agreement with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 people died. I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy are running the Justice Department. -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
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EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
In rec.autos.tech sms wrote:
On 9/21/2015 9:07 PM, Jack Myers wrote: snip I have seen a suggestion that the onboard computer takes note of the fact that the rear wheels are rotating and the front wheels are stationary. That seems plausible to me. Well the opposite for most or all VWs, but that makes sense. Oops! Right-o. What do you want to bet that the source code has this feature documented as a special low-torque mode to facititate getting out of snow banks? |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
Ashton Crusher wrote:
I don't see the logic of this. The purpose of the code is to produce a specific level of emissions. As the EPA found, and I doubt it was hard, the on the road emissions didn't match what was produced during dynamometer testing. How would anyone realistically look at the code and be able to figure out that it "worked" as far as controlling emissions? You can't, you can only tell if it "works" by measuring what comes out the tailpipe. Sure, a good code reader, if they had the time to look thru god knows how many lines of code, *might* spot a weird program execution loop but that it highly doubtful and certainly not a sure thing. And even if they did, it would not prove that the emissions out the tailpipe FAILED, it would only show that someone put some weird stuff in the code. You would still need to measure actual emissions to see if the car met the emissions requirements. It's true that the proof is in the pudding and actual emissions measurements tell the real story, but you cannot realistically measure emissions under every possible driving circumstance, so at some point the test will need to be simplified, and every test that is simplified will have a loophole. However, seeing source code allows you to figure out what that loophole is when the measurements don't make sense, and of course it also allows you to determine intent. Booleans with name like EPA_ENFORCEMENT and SMOG_MODE might be a giveaway too... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
EPA full of shit, VW was not cheating!
| It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt.
The VW executives admitted to the EPA that they were scamming the tests. Try reading the news. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/19/2015 9:40 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:12:53 -0500, mike wrote: On 9/18/2015 9:42 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote: On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get caught or ratted out. According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability. If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for the recall, since it's not a safety issue. They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will also do worse on emissions testing results). It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I think, because of those two results. Do you agree? Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars? Will you have any choice? If the test procedure for those cars is changed to test the "real" emissions, they will FAIL. If you care about air quality, you have to do that. Here in Oregon, you don't get your license plates renewed if you fail. Some cut. Some states, like Nebraska, do no testing. We had some testing for horns, lights, etc. back in the 70s, but dropped it. I think the testers hollered too loud about the low testing fee allowed. I wonder how many of the non-compliant vehicles will end up in states with no testing. They test here in DE but plug into the computer to do it, not just sniff the tail pipe. Would guess our computer would be fooled too. Testing is also static without running load which I would assume EPA did. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
| The Justice Department reached an agreement
| with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution | is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two | shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 | people died. | I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy | are running the Justice Department. | I'd forgotten about the GM issue. It's hardly surprising these things happen when the executives in charge have no liability. Even the companies often find the deals to be profitable. If a company cuts corners to save $100 million and gets fined $20 million, with no arrests, then that seems to be a good business plan. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
| Arrests will do nothing.
I don't see how you can look at it that way. If executives were held crimially liable for corporate law breaking then very little of it would happen. It's the difference between *maybe* risking their bonus and definitely risking years in jail. As long as the corporation is treated as an able, non-human party, and punished financially, that's an implicit statement that we as a society recognize no legal or ethical requirements for people doing business. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 14:22:22 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
You would still need to measure actual emissions to see if the car met the emissions requirements. I think this makes sense. The VW cheat code does NOT appear to do anything clever. In the official EPA pdf letter to VW, they called it a "switch". Basically, the cheat code determined that the car was not moving but that it was running as if it was moving, so, under that circumstance (i.e., under what the EPA called the "dynamometer" settings) VW engineers simply reduced the fuel to the engine, which lowered the NOx emissions. Under all other circumstances, which the EPA called the "road" settings, VW engineers let the car have as much fuel as it wanted, NOx emissions be damned. There was nothing sophisticated at all about it. It's like me stealing money from my own relatives. It's easy to do because they leave their wallet out on the kitchen table without checking. The audacious part isn't how clever it was (it wasn't at all clever). The audacious part is that we trusted them, just as you trust a house guest, and they violated that trust, just as it would be as if a house guest stole money out of your wallet. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
"Mayayana" wrote in message ... | Arrests will do nothing. I don't see how you can look at it that way. If executives were held crimially liable for corporate law breaking then very little of it would happen. It's the difference between *maybe* risking their bonus and definitely risking years in jail. As long as the corporation is treated as an able, non-human party, and punished financially, that's an implicit statement that we as a society recognize no legal or ethical requirements for people doing business. Murder is illegal but people still do it. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:20:29 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
It's true that the proof is in the pudding I once looked that up, and it's the truth is in the /taste/ of the pudding! :) actual emissions measurements tell the real story, but you cannot realistically measure emissions under every possible driving circumstance You'll notice they drove the three test cars from San Diego to Seattle. Do you know why they did that? Because the trucking engine manufacturers were caught cheating years ago, where, after hundreds of miles of driving, the emissions would slowly creep up as the cheat codes slowly lowered the emissions constraints. The only way to tell if the VW cheat code did the same thing as Caterpillar and Volvo did in the past, was to drive for a thousand miles or so. It turned out that the cheat code was not the same as the ones previously used by the trucking engine manufacturers, but, as you noted, the only way to tell was to drive very long distances. so at some point the test will need to be simplified, and every test that is simplified will have a loophole. This is true. The problem here isn't that VW cheated; it's that we TRUSTED them not to cheat, and then they still cheated. It's like trusting a house guest not to steal from you. Or like trusting the pool boy not to steal chemicals from you. Or trusting the electrician not to steal wires from you. Or trusting the dentist not to steal gold fillings from you. It's a trust issue (in addition to one big legal issue). However, seeing source code allows you to figure out what that loophole is when the measurements don't make sense, and of course it also allows you to determine intent. Booleans with name like EPA_ENFORCEMENT and SMOG_MODE might be a giveaway too... In the official documents, even VW called the cheat setting of the switch the dynamometer setting! |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:40:39 -0700, trader_4 wrote:
Otherwise it ran the car with emissions that according to the news last night was 10 - 40x above the limits. Notice that they had from 5 to 45 times the LIMIT (which is a lot!). The lower/higher numbers were due to city/highway mode, I think. (I assume the city numbers are the higher ones?) The variation in the low and high figures themselves was due to the different vehicles tested. They didn't look at the code, EPA went after VW to explain the huge differences between dyno testing emissions and emission on the road. VW couldn't explain it and finally admitted what they had done. I think, as someone mentioned, and as the news noted, the code is actually covered by the DCMA (it would be nice to find a cite). It wasn't so much that VW /couldn't/ explain, but that they wouldn't explain it. They only admitted guilt when both CARB and EPA said they would not certify 2016 diesels because they couldn't be certain of the manufacturer's own certification process. Only then, when VW knew their stock price would take the hit, did VW finally confess. And even then, they didn't confess to the fact that it's not half a million vehicles, but more than twenty times that number! |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:37:03 -0400, Mayayana wrote:
It's the difference between *maybe* risking their bonus and definitely risking years in jail. I must agree, unfortunately. At this point, we don't know WHO was involved. Please post when anyone finds out WHO the guilty PEOPLE were. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 16:04:25 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The Justice Department reached an agreement with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 people died. I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy are running the Justice Department. You have to keep in mind that there are DIFFERENT laws when safety is involved (NHTSA) versus the environment (EPA). The NY Times, I think it was, discussed the difference, which essentially said that the EPA actually has more power to fine them than does the NHTSA. We should look up the details, but, my point is that the laws and maximum penalties are totally DIFFERENT for safety violations versus emissions violations. Inexplicably, the emissions violation laws appear (at first inspection) to be more stringent. Go figure. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:32:46 -0400, Mayayana wrote:
I'd forgotten about the GM issue. It's hardly surprising these things happen when the executives in charge have no liability. Even the companies often find the deals to be profitable. If a company cuts corners to save $100 million and gets fined $20 million, with no arrests, then that seems to be a good business plan. Again, let's remember the laws and maximum fines are very DIFFERENT for emissions laws versus for safety laws. Different laws. Different agencies. Different penalties. You could be arguing that we should make the laws more consistent between SAFETY violations and EMISSIONS violations; but the fact is they are very different - so - you can't really compare them that way and be fair. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:32:46 -0500, Mayayana
wrote: | The Justice Department reached an agreement | with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution | is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two | shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 | people died. | I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy | are running the Justice Department. | I'd forgotten about the GM issue. It's hardly surprising these things happen when the executives in charge have no liability. Even the companies often find the deals to be profitable. If a company cuts corners to save $100 million and gets fined $20 million, with no arrests, then that seems to be a good business plan. My dad had a 1976 Chevy pickup. It was one of those with the gas tank outside of the rails. GM was supposed to allow an extra $1000 as trade in value as part of a settlement with the government. That deal smelled bad from the beginning. -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
EPA full of shit, VW was not cheating!
On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm asked:
My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? From the NY Times: "The software could silently deduce that an inspection was taking place based on the position of the steering wheel (cars hooked up to emissions meters don’t make turns), the speed of the vehicle, how long the engine had been running and barometric pressure." Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom). |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women. Good. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/22/2015 8:15 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
My dad had a 1976 Chevy pickup. It was one of those with the gas tank outside of the rails. GM was supposed to allow an extra $1000 as trade in value as part of a settlement with the government. That deal smelled bad from the beginning. GM's answer to any problem was always to buy a new one. I no longer drive GM cars and the associated problems. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women. Good. There may be others cheating too, just not caught yet. Big corp. mentality like VW cheating. They should be fined $$$ as an example and top guy should do some jail time as well. VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:52:57 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women. Good. There may be others cheating too, just not caught yet. Big corp. mentality like VW cheating. They should be fined $$$ as an example and top guy should do some jail time as well. VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated. Yeah, those disgusting ads on TV should have been a clue that VW was an immoral company. A thorough investigation is necessary. When the congressional Benghazi committee wraps it up in the next 10-12 years, they should take this up. They'll get to the bottom of it. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/22/2015 9:52 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
There may be others cheating too, just not caught yet. Big corp. mentality like VW cheating. They should be fined $$$ as an example and top guy should do some jail time as well. VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated. I cannot imagine a big corporation intentionally doing something like that and figure they would not get caught. Too many people work on projects like that and superiors have to sign off. The cost t fix it is in the billions and for what? |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:12:41 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:
The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women. Good Apparently VW yanked *all* those youtube ads, completely. Amazing how quickly that marketing team can move! |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 19:52:57 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:
VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated. Actually, the USA chief said "we screwed up". The Germany chief is just "endlessly sorry". |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:13:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:
When the congressional Benghazi committee wraps it up in the next 10-12 years, they should take this up. They'll get to the bottom of it. I realize some things are "political", but is *this* issue really a "congressional" issue? Isn't it simply that CARB & the EPA have procedures which are backed up by force of law (admittedly, made by Congress), which VW broke? |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's beingtested?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:19:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I cannot imagine a big corporation intentionally doing something like that and figure they would not get caught. Too many people work on projects like that and superiors have to sign off. The cost t fix it is in the billions and for what? I wonder, out loud, how many people inside of VW knew about this? Do you think it was a small cadre? Or basically everyone? |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On 9/22/2015 10:38 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:19:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I cannot imagine a big corporation intentionally doing something like that and figure they would not get caught. Too many people work on projects like that and superiors have to sign off. The cost t fix it is in the billions and for what? I wonder, out loud, how many people inside of VW knew about this? Do you think it was a small cadre? Or basically everyone? In a corporation that size, even a small cadre could have been 20 to 50 engineers. Someone had to come up with the idea, design, build, test, and approve everything. The guys on the line installing would probably have no idea, just another part. Higher level in engineering would know. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:37:55 +0000 (UTC), Winston_Smith
wrote: On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:13:49 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: When the congressional Benghazi committee wraps it up in the next 10-12 years, they should take this up. They'll get to the bottom of it. I realize some things are "political", but is *this* issue really a "congressional" issue? Isn't it simply that CARB & the EPA have procedures which are backed up by force of law (admittedly, made by Congress), which VW broke? That was tongue and cheek. But a congressional committee can investigate a ham sandwich if they please. |
EPA full of shit, VW was not cheating!
NoSpamForMe wrote:
On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt. I would expect VW to program it's black boxes to use the minimum fuel for a given situation. If the car is on a dyno, there would be no wind resistance to push against so the fuel system *should* lower the fuel flow. I'd expect the same behavior if I was rolling down a mountain grade. Sheeeesh! Wow! Cluelessness at it's best! |
EPA full of shit, VW was not cheating!
Bob F wrote:
NoSpamForMe wrote: On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote: Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions. REFERENCES: http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887 http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles etc. My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions? It seems like everyone here is on a VW witch hunt. I would expect VW to program it's black boxes to use the minimum fuel for a given situation. If the car is on a dyno, there would be no wind resistance to push against so the fuel system *should* lower the fuel flow. I'd expect the same behavior if I was rolling down a mountain grade. Sheeeesh! Wow! Cluelessness at it's best! Update 9/22: This morning VW announced that the cheating issue on diesel engines is much more vast than initially expected. The company admitted to cheating on 11 million diesel engines worldwide. |
EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?
.. wrote:
On 9/22/2015 10:08 AM, Roger Blake wrote: On 2015-09-22, Scott Dorsey wrote: This article is not exactly accurate. ... The point is that government malfeasance, which can and does result in massive death, rarely if ever goes punished. I don't know how much additional pollution is being caused by VW diesels or if the effect is even measurable given their relatively low numbers. I do know that governments routinely lie, cheat, steal, and kill (sometimes en masse) all in a day's work. There's no doubt that what VW did was bad, but the outcry seems out of proportion given the routine misdeeds of the State. What a goof! Really!! |
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