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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Nobel prize for blue
I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue
LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. |
#2
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Nobel prize for blue
On 10/14/2014, 8:27 PM, micky wrote:
I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. Quite a reasonable question: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...k-9782948.html I too would think that the original inventor should have been honoured, not just some fine-tuners along the way... John :-#(# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
#3
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Nobel prize for blue
"I too would think that the original inventor should have been honoured, ...."
If I am not mistaken, they have decided the Tesla, not Marconi, invented radio. Here is a scathing rant on that : http://earlyradiohistory.us/tesla.htm Well osmewhat. Some people think Henry Ford invented the car. It is a matter of thinking. henry Ford, along wiht Adolf Hitler, were the ones who worked to put cars in the hands of ordinary people, not justthe well to do. Deusenbergs wrre around for a longtime, so were other companies. So, on one hand if you make license for anythining even 1,000 years ago, that has one result. If you make patents and copyrights only good foro three years say, that has another result. The US has some of the toughest intellectual property laws on the planet. no wonder the entertainment industry deos so well. ****, who knows, we can take this back to Og the wheel inventor. And your psychological hangups, all traceable back to Adam and Eve. We need another wheel inventor. ButI will handle the business. |
#5
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Nobel prize for blue
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:51:08 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Some people think Henry Ford invented the car. It is a matter of thinking. Henry Ford, along with Adolf Hitler, were the ones who worked to put cars in the hands of ordinary people, not just the well to do. Deusenbergs were around for a longtime, so were other companies. Henry Ford invented the first car that really mattered. More importantly, Henry Ford invented the modern age. Why did the Nobel committee ignore Tom Haverford and Jean-Ralphio Saperstein for their invention of a new shade of black for business cards? |
#6
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Nobel prize for blue
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#7
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Nobel prize for blue
On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 10:33:22 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: wrote: On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:51:08 PM UTC-7, wrote: Some people think Henry Ford invented the car. It is a matter of thinking. Henry Ford, along with Adolf Hitler, were the ones who worked to put cars in the hands of ordinary people, not just the well to do. Deusenbergs were around for a longtime, so were other companies. Henry Ford invented the first car that really mattered. More importantly, Henry Ford invented the modern age. No. He took existing production line concepts and applied them to a simple car he designed. Prior to that, each car was built one at a time which was slow and expensive. The production line was developed to build rifles for the U.S. Army, with interchangable parts. Interchangable parts (specifically for guns) is at least 50 years older than H. Fords production line for cars. ?-) |
#8
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Nobel prize for blue
micky wrote:
Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. No, and he's ****ed. |
#9
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Nobel prize for blue
On 10/14/14, 11:45 PM, rbowman wrote:
micky wrote: Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. No, and he's ****ed. H. J. Round discovered electroluminescence with silicon carbide in 1907. No practical use was found. I'm sure the when committee evaluated wrist watches and calculators with red-led displays, they realized red LED's had no practical use. The most important part of the Nobel Prize is the banquet. The most important aspect of the banquet is the color of the lighting. Blue was what they'd been missing. Dr. Roland Haitz deserves the prize. His law made it mandatory to double the light output of LED's every 36 months. |
#10
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Nobel prize for blue
On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:45:42 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
micky wrote: Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. No, and he's ****ed. The interview I read was with Nick Holonyak who made the first visible red LED. I think the key scientific breakthrough came earlier with the GaAs infrared LED which showed the importance of the direct band gap and the use of III-V compound semiconductors. |
#11
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Nobel prize for blue
On 15/10/2014 04:27, micky wrote:
I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. Fair point, certainly wrt yellow or green or orange but blue was the key to getting to white LED-light, a quantum leap ;-) |
#12
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Nobel prize for blue
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... On 15/10/2014 04:27, micky wrote: I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. Fair point, certainly wrt yellow or green or orange but blue was the key to getting to white LED-light, a quantum leap ;-) For once, I agree ... Arfa |
#13
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Nobel prize for blue
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:30:22 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
On 15/10/2014 04:27, micky wrote: I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. Fair point, certainly wrt yellow or green or orange but blue was the key to getting to white LED-light, a quantum leap ;-) No, not a quantum leap. Certainly not compared to the initial LED. ?-) |
#14
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Nobel prize for blue
"josephkk" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:30:22 +0100, N_Cook wrote: On 15/10/2014 04:27, micky wrote: I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. Fair point, certainly wrt yellow or green or orange but blue was the key to getting to white LED-light, a quantum leap ;-) No, not a quantum leap. Certainly not compared to the initial LED. ?-) I rather think it was actually. The principle of the LED had been known for a long time, and producing the first commercially successful ones was more a case of tweaking and refining than 'real' innovation. Producing the other long and medium wavelength colours such as yellow and green was a variation on a theme. Producing a successful blue LED with a useable level of output was rather more difficult and defeated those who were trying for many years. I can remember the first LEDs appearing, and yes, for sure, they were an interesting component that made it possible to produce low voltage numeric displays and panel indicators, and the other colours that followed improved the versatility in that respect, but the real 'holy grail' was the blue one which, as Mr Cook suggests, was the final puzzle piece to open up the way for full colour video display panels, and white light for space lighting ... Arfa |
#15
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Nobel prize for blue
Isn't the real question whether blue LEDs were the result of engineering
breakthroughs, or fundamental scientific research? Based on what I read a few months ago about the dogged work of the man who made the breakthrough, I'm inclined to go with the former, and say that this work was not worthy of a Nobel for physics. |
#16
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Nobel prize for blue
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Isn't the real question whether blue LEDs were the result of engineering breakthroughs, or fundamental scientific research? Based on what I read a few months ago about the dogged work of the man who made the breakthrough, I'm inclined to go with the former, and say that this work was not worthy of a Nobel for physics. Although the first 'true' LEDs were produced quite early in the 20th century, as far as I can see, it was not technical development that held back commercial production for another 30 or 40 years. Rather, it was one of those curiosities that no-one could see much use for. For sure, that changed as a result of ongoing research and development, and of course discovery of improved materials and techniques, but it was all variations and improvements on a theme. On the other hand, attempts to produce a blue emitting LED, were pretty much continuous after the introduction of the long and medium wavelength devices, because this was the holy grail for true usefulness of the technology. Production of a blue LED requires the use of different materials that are extremely difficult to apply semiconductor creation techniques to, and doing so defeated the best scientific brains, world-wide, for a generation. The fact that someone finally did, paving the way to the usability quantum leap after 30 years of intensive world-wide attempts is, in my humble opinion, probably the most note-worthy event of the whole LED story. Does that deserve a NPP ? Hard to say. As others have commented, they are not really about what they appear to be on the surface, but I certainly wouldn't have said that it was any less deserving than the original invention, which of course was major in its own right, and as I said, in my opinion probably a lot more so, not least for the huge potential that it has released for energy saving in lighting world-wide ... Arfa |
#17
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Nobel prize for blue
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014, micky wrote:
I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. This is a repair question? They are judging on impact. The LED was around for some years, expensive and a lab curiosity, and then in the early seventies we were able to buy them as surplus. Not very bright, but even about the same time as we could get red LEDs cheap, there were green and orange and yellow. A neat thing, but they weren't a radical change. Anything you could do with LEDs could be done with incandescent light bulbs. Lots of things get invented, and don't win a Nobel Prize. And the decades went by, finally a blue LED. That was neat, started all kinds of talk about RGB LEDs to make tv sets or other displays. I remember how bright those blue ones were even when they'd filtered down to the hobby market. Suddenly, you could use LEDs as flashlights, if you could live with blue. I don't know if they affected what had come before, but suddenly you could also get easily high light output red LEDs. It's worth pointing out that it took a long time for blue LEDs to come along because it wasn't a matter of minor changes to LEDs to get differetn colors (or at least not after the initial orange/green/yellow), but a different process. It was a case of having to start from scratch. And then not that much later, white LEDs, as someone pointed out, they happened because blue were available and were the foundation of white LEDs. So suddenly we could have flashlights that were "normal" light, and no more flashlights that didn't work when they were needed because the filament broke. And a whole lot more development happened as a result. There was limited use for high light output red or green LEDs, but a lot of use for high output white LEDs. Whole different design, not the packaged LEDs as we know it, but a different package so the LED could be heatsinked and they didn't need the lens in the package to get more light output (or direct the light). So no more need for that long extension cord when you need that trouble light, this thing is bright enough to temporarily blind you if you look at it suddenly in the dark. Wham, no more CFL bulbs in monitors, just white LEDs for the backlight, longer life and probably lower current drain. And then LED bulbs to replace incandescent and more recently CFL bulbs. They seem to work better than the CFLs, but they certainly use less current for the same light output as incandescent. So that will impact on things in the long run, lower demands for electricity in the home, or in places where there really isn't electricity, real electric lighting that can be powered off a battery and solar cells to recharge it. They are looking at the big picture. Michael |
#18
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Nobel prize for blue
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 09:10:56 -0400, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014, micky wrote: I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. This is a repair question? They are judging on impact. The LED was around for some years, expensive and a lab curiosity, and then in the early seventies we were able to buy them as surplus. Not very bright, but even about the same time as we could get red LEDs cheap, there were green and orange and yellow. A neat thing, but they weren't a radical change. Anything you could do with LEDs could be done with incandescent light bulbs. Lots of things get invented, and don't win a Nobel Prize. And the decades went by, finally a blue LED. That was neat, started all kinds of talk about RGB LEDs to make tv sets or other displays. I remember how bright those blue ones were even when they'd filtered down to the hobby market. Suddenly, you could use LEDs as flashlights, if you could live with blue. I don't know if they affected what had come before, but suddenly you could also get easily high light output red LEDs. It's worth pointing out that it took a long time for blue LEDs to come along because it wasn't a matter of minor changes to LEDs to get differetn colors (or at least not after the initial orange/green/yellow), but a different process. It was a case of having to start from scratch. And then not that much later, white LEDs, as someone pointed out, they happened because blue were available and were the foundation of white LEDs. So suddenly we could have flashlights that were "normal" light, and no more flashlights that didn't work when they were needed because the filament broke. And a whole lot more development happened as a result. There was limited use for high light output red or green LEDs, but a lot of use for high output white LEDs. Whole different design, not the packaged LEDs as we know it, but a different package so the LED could be heatsinked and they didn't need the lens in the package to get more light output (or direct the light). So no more need for that long extension cord when you need that trouble light, this thing is bright enough to temporarily blind you if you look at it suddenly in the dark. Wham, no more CFL bulbs in monitors, just white LEDs for the backlight, longer life and probably lower current drain. And then LED bulbs to replace incandescent and more recently CFL bulbs. They seem to work better than the CFLs, but they certainly use less current for the same light output as incandescent. So that will impact on things in the long run, lower demands for electricity in the home, or in places where there really isn't electricity, real electric lighting that can be powered off a battery and solar cells to recharge it. They are looking at the big picture. Michael Well, sort of. The Nobel is a political award, as evidenced by giving one to Yassir Arafat an aging ex-terrorist. The blue improvement was incremental compared to making LEDs the first time. Also just look at what body controls the awards. ?-) |
#19
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Nobel prize for blue
On 10/14/2014 10:27 PM, micky wrote:
I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. There was a lot more to it than just "try many combinations". Here is a link to a story that tells why blue the blue LED was a real break through. http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2...for-blue-leds/ Bill |
#20
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Nobel prize for blue
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014, Bill Gill wrote:
On 10/14/2014 10:27 PM, micky wrote: I think 3 people won the Nobel Prize in physics for inventing the blue LED. Did the inventor of the first (red) LED get a Nobel prize. It seems a lot harder to invent the first one than the third or fourth. The red guy perhaps was the first to think of the idea, but even if not, he had to think it could be done and then go do it. The blue guy just has to try many many combinations unitil he finds one that is blue. Just because it's the last piece in the puzzle, I don't think it's Nobel-worthy. There was a lot more to it than just "try many combinations". Here is a link to a story that tells why blue the blue LED was a real break through. http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2...for-blue-leds/ Bill Yes, it took a long time to find blue. When were LEDs invented? By the late sixties, at least, and maybe early sixties, taking some time to come to production. Blue arrived in the mid or late eighties. So even if they were just trying everything at random, that's a long time to find something that did go blue. Michael |
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