Frustration Friday and another great idea trashed by mechanical design
stupidity. The plot started with me inheriting a new in-the-box HP
Pavilion 20-F323 all-in-one computah.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hp+pavilion+20-f323&tbm=isch
The (former) ladyfriend had bought it on Groupon and then decided to
buy a Mac Mini instead. I hauled it to my palatial office, where it
sat for several months waiting for a victim that will pay real money
for it. I wouldn't inflict it upon my customers, so it just sat.

A few daze ago, I decide to use it myself as a home internet IP TV
computer. The 1600x900 screen is good enough for IP TV, but not
really great for computing, where I like to fill the screen with work
in progress:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/desktop.jpg
It came with Windoze 8.0 pre-installed. What can go wrong? Here's
the blow by blow account. My comments are near the bottom.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-windows_update/failure-configuring-windows-updates-reverting/46f9bc1d-0450-4340-b27a-2d113e40bb5b
After about 50+ hours of doing battle with the Windoze 8.0 to 8.1
update monster, it's working. I then burn most of day loading it with
the usual collection of IP TV and video software. Amazingly, they all
seem to work correctly. After that hassle, what else can go wrong?

As I repack the display to haul it home, I notice that the kickstand
in back does not allow mounting the display perfectly vertically, as
is done with all things TV. It will only tilt back at some angle and
will tend to fall forward if positioned vertically.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/88/81/82/61/0088818261657_AV2_500X500.jpg
If I put anything under the rear "foot", the screen will fall over.
There are no VESA 75 or 100 mounting screws on the back. Bummer.

It appears that I'm stuck and can't use this all-in-one abomination as
a TV. Unless someone has a better suggestion, I'll probably fabricate
some kind of ugly bracketry to mount it vertically.

Grumble...

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

There must be something you can do with velcro and cable ties. That and some 555s and you can rule the world.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

There must be something you can do with velcro and cable ties. That
and some 555s and you can rule the world.

This looks to be a job for Unistrut, scrap metal, 2x4 lumber, and duct
tape. More realistically, I'll see if the rear kickstand can be
removed and replaced with something that more closely resembles an LCD
monitor mounting stand. I'll probably be able to adapt a VESA stand
to the unique HP kickstand mounting pattern.

I just noticed another mechanical problem with the Pavilion 20-F323.
HP put the carrying handle on the bottom instead of the top.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/88/81/82/61/0088818261657_500X500.jpg
The silver bar on the bottom would make a perfect carrying handle if
HP had located it on the top of the display, instead of the bottom.

There's also another odd problem because of the touch screen. It has
an extra 0.75 inch wide black strip around the entire display area.
That's the black area around the blue screen in the photo above. It's
necessary because finger swipes must start from outside the display
area. Starting a finger swipe on the bezel does not work. There are
several irritating side effects.
1. The monitor needed to grow 1.5" larger in both height and width to
accomdate the added finger swipe takeoff area.
2. It is not practical to stack such monitors because of the extra
large and useless black area.
3. I can't hang Post It notes around the edge of the display because
it triggers the touch screen effects.
4. When used as a TV, the picture looks tiny when letterboxing adds
to the black border.
5. The shiny black area and glossy screen is perfect for enhancing
glare from inside lighting.

Another interesting feature is the on/off push button. It's very much
the defacto standard size button found on most HP desktops and
monitors. Most of these have a rather dim blue-white LED designed to
not get in your face when illuminated. The Pavilion 20-F323 has the
button located on a recessed panel on the left size of the machine. It
is not visible to the user, which is good because it is now quite
bright. In a darkened room, as is common when watching TV, it is
bright enough to read by. Granted, it's not pointed in my face, but I
don't really need another room light. Of course, all the labels are
in dark grey print on black, making them impossible to read in dim
room light.

Yet another curiosity is the built in camera. With the computer
tilted back on its kickstand in somewhat tilted back operating
position, the elevation of the camera is pre-aimed to point to where
the users face would normally be expected to appear. However, when
operated vertically, as I plan to do, it shows from my neck down to my
waist, without any means of adjustment.

I'm beginning to suspect that this thing is cursed in addition to
being badly designed for TV ergonomics.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tap Plastics is a much better way to build a nice stand.
But given the other problems, use it to drive a cheap used 16:9 monitor.
e.g., http://www.ebay.com/itm/261534318984

On 9/13/2014 12:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Yet another curiosity is the built in camera. With the computer
tilted back on its kickstand in somewhat tilted back operating
position, the elevation of the camera is pre-aimed to point to where
the users face would normally be expected to appear.



However, when operated vertically, as I plan to do, it shows from my neck down to my
waist, without any means of adjustment.

Probably good enough, as long as you don't have any identifying tattoos!
:-)

Mikek

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:02:12 -0500, amdx wrote:

On 9/13/2014 12:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Yet another curiosity is the built in camera. With the computer
tilted back on its kickstand in somewhat tilted back operating
position, the elevation of the camera is pre-aimed to point to where
the users face would normally be expected to appear.

However, when operated vertically, as I plan to do, it shows from my neck down to my
waist, without any means of adjustment.

Probably good enough, as long as you don't have any identifying tattoos!
:-)
Mikek

Naw, it's the beer paunch that bothers me (except that I don't drink
beer). Oddly, I've gained only about 4 pounds in the last 10 years,
but my waist has grown about 4 inches. During approximately the same
period, I've lost about 1.5 inches in height. I can't believe that
spinal compression would have such a big effect, but there it is.
Strange, but that also explains why my weight loss program didn't
reduce my waist line.

I do have some tattooed dots in the camera area. They were targets
for the high energy x-ray beam used for cleaning up the mess after
prostate cancer surgery. My full length zipper scar from a triple
heart bypass is more interesting and photogenic.[1]

Back on topic... HP was good enough to supply an animated video of
how to tear the computer apart:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c03686988&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en
The immediate problem is that the rear kickstand is attached only to
the plastic case, and not to the main chassis. At 13.2 lbs, I think
this is a necessity, especially with only 2 screws holding the rear
panel in place. I could add a backing plate, but without a means to
secure it to the chassis, it's going to break.

This project is not looking good[2].


[1] Standard bad joke: I have no heart... it's been bypassed.
[2] Why don't computer "reviews" discuss ergonomic and usability
problems like these? At best, I get a description of how difficult it
was to extract from the box and packing material.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article ,
says...

There must be something you can do with velcro and cable ties. That and some 555s and you can rule the world.

now wait a minute, it is most likely more energy efficient over the old
antique computers, so this would constitute using a 7555 timer.


Jamie

On 9/13/2014 1:40 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 13:02:12 -0500, amdx wrote:

On 9/13/2014 12:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:19:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


Yet another curiosity is the built in camera. With the computer
tilted back on its kickstand in somewhat tilted back operating
position, the elevation of the camera is pre-aimed to point to where
the users face would normally be expected to appear.

However, when operated vertically, as I plan to do, it shows from my neck down to my
waist, without any means of adjustment.

Probably good enough, as long as you don't have any identifying tattoos!
:-)
Mikek

Naw, it's the beer paunch that bothers me (except that I don't drink
beer). Oddly, I've gained only about 4 pounds in the last 10 years,
but my waist has grown about 4 inches. During approximately the same
period, I've lost about 1.5 inches in height. I can't believe that
spinal compression would have such a big effect, but there it is.
Strange, but that also explains why my weight loss program didn't
reduce my waist line.

I do have some tattooed dots in the camera area. They were targets
for the high energy x-ray beam used for cleaning up the mess after
prostate cancer surgery. My full length zipper scar from a triple
heart bypass is more interesting and photogenic.[1]


Yours is interesting and photogenic, but this young lady had an artist
do a fabulous job on a scar that I don't understand the origin of.
http://humorcamp.com/view/6000/
Careful, easy to waste an hour on this site, or has it been two.

Mikek

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:13:04 -0500, amdx wrote:

Yours is interesting and photogenic,

True, but the shock effect is fading. For some time after the
surgery, I was into "flashing" my friends and acquaintances. When the
general reaction went from "wow, that's cool" to "yech, that's
disgusting", I stopped. I was going to attach a zipper to the scar on
the occasion of a follow up visit to the cardiologist, but chickened
out when I was warned that he has little sense of humor about his
work.

but this young lady had an artist
do a fabulous job on a scar that I don't understand the origin of.
http://humorcamp.com/view/6000/

Spinal fusion surgery for scoliosis:
http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/scoliosis/scoliosis-surgery
Not fun but often necessary. I know someone that went through it.

Careful, easy to waste an hour on this site, or has it been two.

Thanks but I only found one item of interest:
http://www.amazon.com/Knit-Your-Own-Easy-Follow/dp/1579128939
A friend does knitting and has a cat that hates me. That should get
their attention. More of the same:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594745250/
If you don't hear from me for a while, you can guess what happened.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
After about 50+ hours of doing battle with the Windoze 8.0 to 8.1
update monster, it's working.

50 hours * your standard shop rate = the most expensive 20" LCD TV in
the world. I guess you can write some of it off to learning how to
do the 8.0-8.1 upgrade, in case one of your paying customers asks you
to do that.

I then burn most of day loading it with the usual collection of IP TV
and video software.

I don't know if there is good Linux IPTV software, but somewhere around
the 4th hour, I think I would have booted a Linux live CD and tried
VLC... VLC can play damn near everything else I've thrown at it.

Grumble...

I have a new-to-me Dell Optiplex with Win7 that I'm about to bring up to
date. Luckily I have the original Win7 install disc and an image backup
of the as-installed HD, in case things go completely wrong.

Matt Roberds

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 06:33:24 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
After about 50+ hours of doing battle with the Windoze 8.0 to 8.1
update monster, it's working.

50 hours * your standard shop rate = the most expensive 20" LCD TV in
the world.

Yep. However, that was about 50+ hours elapsed time. I was working
on other stuff at the same time. If I had to bill for that wasted
exercise, it would be about 20 hrs at $75/hr.

I guess you can write some of it off to learning how to
do the 8.0-8.1 upgrade, in case one of your paying customers asks you
to do that.

I've done the 8.0 to 8.1 update at least 10 times without incident.
This one was unusual. What apparently happened was that the original
factory 8.0 install didn't have any updates installed. The computer
then sat in it's box for about 4 or maybe 5 months during which time
Microsoft had issued a fairly large number of updates. When it came
time to do the 8.0 to 8.1 update, it first insisted that I catch up on
all those missed updates before allowing me to install 8.1. Mine is
not to reason why but my guess(tm) is that when Microsoft discovered
that many users either didn't bother updating to 8.1 or couldn't
figure out how because it initially required logging into a Microsoft
account on the computer in order to do the download. So, they just
kept issuing updates for 8.0 as if it were a separate product instead
of a long forgotten early release. So, instead of a few updates to
the original install, the number of updates was far larger than
expected. I guess(tm) that Microsoft hadn't bothered to test if such
a large number could be installed at one time. Oddly, it didn't break
during the actual install. That went smoothly. It was after the
reboot, when it was "configuring Windoze" that the problems appeared.
I then burn most of day loading it with the usual collection of IP TV
and video software.

I don't know if there is good Linux IPTV software, but somewhere around
the 4th hour, I think I would have booted a Linux live CD and tried
VLC... VLC can play damn near everything else I've thrown at it.

I have a really awful combination of media players and computers
running media player and server software. For Linux, I use XMBC and
Plex. For Netflix, I use a Roku 2 XS. I also have an MVIX Utlio Pro,
an old Roku 1, and two WD Media Players. Throw in several NAS boxes,
a pile of 1GB USB drives full of videos, and various DVR's, and we
have a media mess. Also, a Raspberry Pi running XMBC and a promising
experiment at turning a Chromebook into a Linux based media player.
The search for video nirvana never ends.

I have a new-to-me Dell Optiplex with Win7 that I'm about to bring up to
date. Luckily I have the original Win7 install disc and an image backup
of the as-installed HD, in case things go completely wrong.

Dell installs are very easy as long as you have the original Dell
install DVD.

The big problem with media players and servers for me is the noise
made by the fan and hard disk(s). The large box Dell Optiplex 755 and
960 machines are my favorite because of the single humongous fan they
use, which rotates slowly and makes hardly any noise. However, the
video cards are a problem. I've had to settle on slow and inferior
video cards in order to get one that doesn't have a fan.

Good luck on your setup.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:30:36 -0400, "Maynard A. Philbrook Jr."
wrote:

In article ,
says...
There must be something you can do with velcro and cable ties. That and some 555s and you can rule the world.

now wait a minute, it is most likely more energy efficient over the old
antique computers, so this would constitute using a 7555 timer.
Jamie

You're behind the times. Every generation has it's own universal
solutions. During the tail end of the 19th century, everything was
held together with baling wire. When the automobile appeared in the
beginning of the 20th century, they were held together with sticky goo
commonly called "bubble gum". During WWII, advances in consumer
chemistry allowed everything to be held together with Scotch tape and
cellophane wrap. After WWII, duct tape appeared as the universal
fastener. During the space race, Teflon everything was the universal
solution. We even had a Teflon president (Reagan). At this point,
consumer analog electronics took off, and soon everything had to have
a 555 timer inside. That worked well until microprocessors became
cheap enough replace analog sub-systems, resulting in the PIC
controller becoming the universal solution to all things electronic.
That will probably remain true for a few more years, when SoC (system
on a chip) devices start to take over.

However, none of that will help support a computer that can't be
mounted vertically.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:12:17 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

This looks to be a job for Unistrut, scrap metal, 2x4 lumber, and duct
tape.

Amen to that. You left out coathanger wire, though...

Yet another curiosity is the built in camera. With the computer
tilted back on its kickstand in somewhat tilted back operating
position, the elevation of the camera is pre-aimed to ... my neck down to my
waist, without any means of adjustment.

That, there's a solution for. Get one of those Fresnel sheet magnifiers,
and experiment. Any non-central portion of the magnifier acts like a
prism. Find the right region, snip out a small section, and slap it over
the tiny little lens.