On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:36 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:13:57 -0500, krw wrote:

Um, call someone who knows what they're doing?

Is that how Alt.Home.Repair works?
Is that how Alt.Security.Alarms works?
Is that how Sci.Electronics.Repair works?

Um, the point is that the alarm system doesn't work.

Call someone who knows what they're doing?
That's why I'm asking here.

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is
difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is
completely helpless.

You guys are supposed to know what you're doing!

You have a bigger problem than even I suspected.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:10:17 -0500, krw wrote:

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is
difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is
completely helpless.

My main question is *where* can I find a "pass through" alarm servicing
company that will sell me just the board for the $105 it's worth.

This guy can't find the boards (I talked to him personally):
http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.p...&productId=816

Nobody will sell them to him.
Yet, Bosch told me that they have plenty in stock.

So, it's only a question of finding the right "pass through" guy.

I'm hoping at least one person on this thread knows that answer
since I don't.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:10:17 -0500, krw wrote:

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is
difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is
completely helpless.

My main question is *where* can I find a "pass through" alarm servicing
company that will sell me just the board for the $105 it's worth.

This guy can't find the boards (I talked to him personally):
http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.p...&productId=816

Nobody will sell them to him.
Yet, Bosch told me that they have plenty in stock.

So, it's only a question of finding the right "pass through" guy.

I'm hoping at least one person on this thread knows that answer
since I don't.

Hi,
What if the new board blows up when replaced? Are planing to protect it
some how from that occuring? BTW, looking at arrow marking on diode
can yu tell which direction current electron or current flows?
Can you tell which lead is cathode or anode?

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:07:16 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

What if the new board blows up when replaced?

That's why I only want to spend the $104 to replace it.
It *does* have overload circuit protection besides.

Are you planning to protect it some how from that occurring?

I've done plenty of smoke tests in my life.
This will be one of them.

BTW, looking at arrow marking on diode
can yu tell which direction current electron or current flows?
Can you tell which lead is the cathode or anode?

Heh heh ... here is a board I built many years ago to test
impedence (j omega stuff). I wired a diode to house current!
You'll notice the diodes. Particularly, you'll notice that the
nichrome wire resistor has the same impedance as the the capacitor.
(I couldn't find an inductor of a large enough size.)
FRONT: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/1...41b67f1e_o.gif
BACK: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3800/1...928f65c1_o.gif

Also notice this circuit, where I used 555 timers (I think that's what
I used), way back in the 80's, to measure capacitance and resistance
simply by counting the flash rate ...
FRONT: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/1...3e84efa3_o.gif
BACK: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/1...fa50a070_o.gif

I did those circuits in the early 80's but, of course I know
about the shape of the diode curve and which is the anode and
which is the cathode.
http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03256.png

Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:07:16 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

What if the new board blows up when replaced?

That's why I only want to spend the $104 to replace it.
It *does* have overload circuit protection besides.

Are you planning to protect it some how from that occurring?

I've done plenty of smoke tests in my life.
This will be one of them.

BTW, looking at arrow marking on diode
can yu tell which direction current electron or current flows?
Can you tell which lead is the cathode or anode?

Heh heh ... here is a board I built many years ago to test
impedence (j omega stuff). I wired a diode to house current!
You'll notice the diodes. Particularly, you'll notice that the
nichrome wire resistor has the same impedance as the the capacitor.
(I couldn't find an inductor of a large enough size.)
FRONT: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/1...41b67f1e_o.gif
BACK: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3800/1...928f65c1_o.gif

Also notice this circuit, where I used 555 timers (I think that's what
I used), way back in the 80's, to measure capacitance and resistance
simply by counting the flash rate ...
FRONT: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/1...3e84efa3_o.gif
BACK: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/1...fa50a070_o.gif

I did those circuits in the early 80's but, of course I know
about the shape of the diode curve and which is the anode and
which is the cathode.
http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03256.png

Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants.

Hi,
You checked the state of that Omron relay? Is it it NC or NO relay. Is
the contacts closed now or open, is the coil OK? Diode, and Zener...
If you are going after ICs, Huntron tracker comes handy.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:03:11 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

You checked the state of that Omron relay? Is it it NC or NO relay. Is
the contacts closed now or open, is the coil OK? Diode, and Zener...
If you are going after ICs, Huntron tracker comes handy.

Hi Tony,
The new power transformer solved (almost) all the problems!

As soon as it arrived, I tested its output voltage (20 VAC),
which within the expected range:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif

The voltage from the secondary to the ground (middle screw)
was weird (see picture where it's 3.5 volts on one side, and
1 volt on the other), which was wholly unexpected, but, probably
not important.

Even so, the moment I plugged in the power transformer,
the D2212B circuit and the control panels came to life.
There is 13.6V at the battery terminals without the battery plugged in.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...deb1394f_o.gif

I think, in the end, the only things that were bad we
1. The transformer secondary blew out
2. The D135A capacitor seems to have been overheated
3. The battery is apparently bad

Luckily, all those are easy to fix!

I'm not sure *how* to read what the control panel is trying to
tell me since it only says "Call for Service", but, I'm pretty
sure it's trying to tell me the (bad) battery isn't connected.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/1...d907e787_o.gif
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/1...cb163704_o.gif

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message news
The voltage from the secondary to the ground (middle screw)
was weird (see picture where it's 3.5 volts on one side, and
1 volt on the other), which was wholly unexpected, but, probably
not important.

Not weird at all. The ground is electrically isolated from the
secondary of the transformer. What you are seeing is phantom
readings.

Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:03:11 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

You checked the state of that Omron relay? Is it it NC or NO relay. Is
the contacts closed now or open, is the coil OK? Diode, and Zener...
If you are going after ICs, Huntron tracker comes handy.

Hi Tony,
The new power transformer solved (almost) all the problems!

Hi,
Good for you. From the beginning I told you to replace x-former,
check all the components on the board and test the battery with
automotive 12V bulb. Maybe you have selective
hearing or reading?, LOL! You are close to finish line now.

As soon as it arrived, I tested its output voltage (20 VAC),
which within the expected range:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif

The voltage from the secondary to the ground (middle screw)
was weird (see picture where it's 3.5 volts on one side, and
1 volt on the other), which was wholly unexpected, but, probably
not important.

Even so, the moment I plugged in the power transformer,
the D2212B circuit and the control panels came to life.
There is 13.6V at the battery terminals without the battery plugged in.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...deb1394f_o.gif

I think, in the end, the only things that were bad we
1. The transformer secondary blew out
2. The D135A capacitor seems to have been overheated
3. The battery is apparently bad

Luckily, all those are easy to fix!

I'm not sure *how* to read what the control panel is trying to
tell me since it only says "Call for Service", but, I'm pretty
sure it's trying to tell me the (bad) battery isn't connected.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/1...d907e787_o.gif
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/1...cb163704_o.gif

Danny D'Amico wrote:

Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants.


There is a hell of a lot that you don't know. None of these give you
accurate information about a capacitor.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:46:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

AMEN!

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:46:42 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

There is a hell of a lot that you don't know.

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:10:17 -0500, krw wrote:

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is
difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is
completely helpless.

My main question is *where* can I find a "pass through" alarm servicing
company that will sell me just the board for the $105 it's worth.

This guy can't find the boards (I talked to him personally):
http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.p...&productId=816

Nobody will sell them to him.
Yet, Bosch told me that they have plenty in stock.

So, it's only a question of finding the right "pass through" guy.

I'm hoping at least one person on this thread knows that answer
since I don't.


Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kg3yajf

(Hey, I finally remembered to copy the proper link. I know, what a moron...)

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:07 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

Thanks. If it comes to that, I'll start fresh.
I have 24 zones to deal with though ...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/1...0cc3544f_o.gif

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:07 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

Thanks. If it comes to that, I'll start fresh.
I have 24 zones to deal with though ...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/1...0cc3544f_o.gif


Before you start pratting around checking diodes, capacitors and the like
you should disconnect all the external wiring to the circuit board and power
the board up on its own to verify that the field wiring or expansion modules
are not the cause of the problem

Doug

"doug" wrote in message ...

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:07 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

Thanks. If it comes to that, I'll start fresh.
I have 24 zones to deal with though ...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/1...0cc3544f_o.gif


Before you start pratting around checking diodes, capacitors and the like you should disconnect all the external wiring to the
circuit board and power the board up on its own to verify that the field wiring or expansion modules are not the cause of the
problem

Doug


Great idea, Doug. After he removes the old system, and installs the new one, his
pet project on the side will be getting the old system working. :-)

"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:07 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

Ditch the old and get the new. Many available:

Thanks. If it comes to that, I'll start fresh.
I have 24 zones to deal with though ...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3756/1...0cc3544f_o.gif


I am certain you may find something that works, and is probably
better than the ancient thing that you are playing with.