dave wrote:
On 11/12/2013 05:59 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

They are philosophically very different to run and debug problems on. With
Linux, you can readily look inside and see what is going on, and so step by
step diagnosis is possible (and in fact is essential). On the other hand,
with Windows systems you can't really see what is going on inside the box
at all and if you attempt conventional step by step diagnosis you will only
get frustrated and angry. Windows diagnosis is basically done with a matrix
of problems and solutions... and the good news is that there are enough
Windows systems that a google search on a given problem will usually find you
a solution. That doesn't mean the person with the solution has any more idea
what is going on inside the box than you do, though.

You are way more likely to need to fork over some moola to get the
answer with Win. The Linux ecosystem is not about generating profits; it
makes computing fun again. I'm about to install a 64 bit Mint customized
for Ham Radio on my friends old gaming machine. He is actually the one
who pays retail for Windows.,

Not really, that's the frustrating part from my standpoint. You _can't get_
direct systems programming support from Microsoft, no matter how much money
you spend.

I _like_ having a commercial operating system where I can call up on the phone
and talk to some guy who has the source code in front of him and can track down
exactly what is going on, and I don't mind paying for that service.

But Microsoft will charge you for support and have you talking to some guy
on the phone who doesn't know any more than you do about what is going on
inside the box... it takes many, many layers of escalation to talk to anyone
who has seen the source.

I would MUCH RATHER be able to pay money and talk to an expert than deal with
the catch-as-catch-can support that most Linux distributions have. But
Microsoft gives me the worst of both worlds.

Apple is not so bad... it's difficult to get in touch with people who really
know what is going on, but it's not impossible. It does cost money, but
that's what money is for, to pay people to do things you can't or don't want
to do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

dave wrote:

Creator of Microsoft? Gates helped write CPM, a little bit of BASIC.

No. Gates had nothing do with with CP/M, which was a a Digital Research
product. He was famous for producing what today we would call "layered
products" including a variety of standard BASIC interpreters for various
operating systems (including CP/M and RT-11, the system that CP/M was crudely
modelled after), as well as BASIC-in-ROM for a lot of systems.

Quick and Dirty Operating System was bought pretty much turnkey. Since
then it's been Bill and Steve as Mr and Mrs Pacman, gobbling up other
people's ideas.

Yes, Gates purchased SBC-DOS from Seattle Business Computing and resold it
as MS-DOS. That's how free markets work.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

dave, this is not meant to be personal or adversarial.

I have many years' experience with computers, and used to be a programmer. I
have never had any particular problems (other than a general "failure" of W2K,
for unknown reasons) with Windows. It runs, it works, and I'm willing to put
out the effort to make sure it's properly configured. (There are books on the
subject.)

Please give me some /good/ reasons why I should dump Windows and Windows
software, and switch to Linux -- other than "Linux good, Windows bad".

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor
wrote:
And use all your Windows software no more :-(
Linux is great if you are happy with the available software, or all you
want
to do is surf the net. However I'm amazed that people who can successfully
install and run Linux can't keep a Windows box running.

They are philosophically very different to run and debug problems on.
With
Linux, you can readily look inside and see what is going on, and so step
by
step diagnosis is possible (and in fact is essential). On the other hand,
with Windows systems you can't really see what is going on inside the box
at all

Sure you can, just open the box. Windows or Linux makes no difference :-)


and if you attempt conventional step by step diagnosis you will only
get frustrated and angry. Windows diagnosis is basically done with a
matrix
of problems and solutions

Which are readily found in many instances by checking the logs.


... and the good news is that there are enough
Windows systems that a google search on a given problem will usually find
you
a solution.

Exactly.


That doesn't mean the person with the solution has any more idea
what is going on inside the box than you do, though.


Nor that they really care as long as a solution is available.

Trevor.

"Leif Neland" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey tastede følgende:
In article , Trevor
wrote:
... Windows diagnosis is basically done with a matrix
of problems and solutions... and the good news is that there are enough
Windows systems that a google search on a given problem will usually find
you
a solution.

Or often umpteen people with the same problem and no solution :-(

Or just as often umpteen solutions to no real problem :-)

Trevor.

"dave" wrote in message
m...
The Windows world is like North Las Vegas. It is crass, commercial and
everyone has to get their hands dirty. I have a netbook with XP that I
need to talk to my iPod.

The Apple ipod itunes crap is the only problem, Windows works well with
every other MP3 player that I've ever used. But so does Linux for that
matter.

If your IOS device detects you trying to read the files with a 3rd party
app it will brick your device. You have to refill it. Major Pain!

Why I'd never buy an Apple device when there are lots to choose from that
work with any system.

Trevor.

On 11/12/2013 10:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
"dave" wrote in message

If your IOS device detects you trying to read the files with a 3rd party
app it will brick your device. You have to refill it. Major Pain!

Why I'd never buy an Apple device when there are lots to choose from that
work with any system.

Trevor.

I specifically bought mine to use with a 3G wireless router in my car,
to use the iPod Touch as a stream tuner. This was in 2009 and more
elegant solutions were not yet available. I was astonished that you
cannot drag and drop files and then offended by the idea I could never
be superuser on my own bought and paid for ipod. I do know how to root
it via USB or wifi, but why?

Fanbois love this kind of walled garden. Probably a juvenile complex or
something.

"S. King" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 23:36:30 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
The only time I've 'reinstalled' windows was on replacement hard
drives. I've worked on hundreds of windows based computers and never
needed a reinstall, unless the hard drive had died.


Ditto! First there was CPM, then DOS, then Windows. Never had to re-
install Windows in any iteration, although I did avoid a couple of
versions that people complained about.

Yep, I never had any problems with the ones they did complain about either,
like ME.
Wish I could say the same about all the faulty motherboards and power
supplies I've had to replace in my own and other computers over the years
:-(

Trevor.

On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:
"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

Not strictly true. Perhaps what you mean is cleaning the registry is often
pointless even though it can and usually does fill up with lots of
unnecessary crap over time.
For those who know what they are doing, no need to pay any money at all to
clean the registry. For those who don't, probably best to leave it alone.
In any case reinstalling Windows just to clean the registry is even more
pointless IMO.

Trevor.

On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Nil" wrote in message
...

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have
some specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time
and at worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady
industry that sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but
what they're really selling is snake oil.

Not strictly true. Perhaps what you mean is cleaning the registry
is often pointless even though it can and usually does fill up
with lots of unnecessary crap over time.

That's almost what I mean, but not quite. Windows registry is an
optimized database, and the unnecessary crap that accumulates there
impacts performance so little as to be irrelevant. "Cleaning" it out
doesn't improve anything except one's urge to be neat. At the same
time, you can easily screw the registry up royally. There's great risk
and little or no benefit.

For those who know what they are doing, no need to pay any money
at all to clean the registry. For those who don't, probably best
to leave it alone. In any case reinstalling Windows just to clean
the registry is even more pointless IMO.

Agreed.

Les Cargill wrote:

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.


If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have
problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's
built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry
entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited the registry by
hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy
uninstalls.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't
have problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use
the program's built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder
of the registry entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited
the registry by hand. The pro version is supposed to clean out
trash left from sloppy uninstalls.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_..._download.html

Thanks for the recommendation.

I've edited the Registry many times by hand, once to remove all references to
a piece of software I didn't want hanging around. "It's perfectly safe" if you
pay attention to what you're doing. I've never damaged anything.

I've never used a Registry cleaner. If I were going to use one, it would be
the one in Piriform's CCleaner (nee, Crap Cleaner). Piriforms makes good free
software (which is underwritten by the fancier versions other people pay for).

Nil wrote:
On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

Not necessarily so. However, I have yet to see a truly "hands-off" registry
cleaner that can address all of the potential quirks without screwing
something up. IMO, the better ones generate a list of anomalies and allow
the user to review and override those that should be left alone. Time
consuming, but quicker than a reinstall of the OS.
--
best regards,

Neil

On 11/23/2013 05:54 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Nil wrote:
On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

Not necessarily so. However, I have yet to see a truly "hands-off" registry
cleaner that can address all of the potential quirks without screwing
something up. IMO, the better ones generate a list of anomalies and allow
the user to review and override those that should be left alone. Time
consuming, but quicker than a reinstall of the OS.


I'm convinced. You guys have talked me out of ever using Windows again.

Nil wrote:
On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Nil" wrote in message
...

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have
some specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time
and at worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady
industry that sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but
what they're really selling is snake oil.

Not strictly true. Perhaps what you mean is cleaning the registry
is often pointless even though it can and usually does fill up
with lots of unnecessary crap over time.

That's almost what I mean, but not quite. Windows registry is an
optimized database, and the unnecessary crap that accumulates there
impacts performance so little as to be irrelevant. "Cleaning" it out
doesn't improve anything except one's urge to be neat. At the same
time, you can easily screw the registry up royally. There's great risk
and little or no benefit.

For those who know what they are doing, no need to pay any money
at all to clean the registry. For those who don't, probably best
to leave it alone. In any case reinstalling Windows just to clean
the registry is even more pointless IMO.

Agreed.


Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in performance.
I also know that this wasn't due to malware.

I also know that once I started using a registry cleaner, that was no
longer necessary.

Make all the statements you want; I know what I saw.

--
Les Cargill

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.


If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have
problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's
built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry
entries and leftover folders.

That's the main thing I use; yes.

Prior to this, I edited the registry by
hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy
uninstalls.


So does the free version.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html



--
Les Cargill

Nil wrote:
On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Nil" wrote in message
...

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have
some specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time
and at worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady
industry that sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but
what they're really selling is snake oil.

Not strictly true. Perhaps what you mean is cleaning the registry
is often pointless even though it can and usually does fill up
with lots of unnecessary crap over time.

That's almost what I mean, but not quite. Windows registry is an
optimized database, and the unnecessary crap that accumulates there
impacts performance so little as to be irrelevant. "Cleaning" it out
doesn't improve anything except one's urge to be neat. At the same
time, you can easily screw the registry up royally. There's great risk
and little or no benefit.


The Registry is a fairly hateful thing. It's a poor design choice.
Having used a cleaner for some time now, I've had *zero* problems with it.

For those who know what they are doing, no need to pay any money
at all to clean the registry. For those who don't, probably best
to leave it alone. In any case reinstalling Windows just to clean
the registry is even more pointless IMO.

Agreed.


I use both Eusing Registry Cleaner and Revo Uninstaller. I started using
both at the same time, so either or both could be what it is that worked.


--
Les Cargill

Les Cargill wrote:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in performance.

I don't really know very much about Windows systems. Part of the problem
with Windows systems is that you can't see inside the box, so conventional
diagnostics become impossible. This means most diagnosis is performed by
having a matrix of individual symptoms and solutions in your head, or on
google. People who work on Windows systems day in and day out develop
that.

So, when I have Windows issues, I go to someone whom I know is an expert
and who has a large matrix like that in his head. And when I mentioned
trying to help someone with a problem, he said the following:

"If you don't know what is going on, tell them that they have registry
corruption. Because they always do, and it sounds good, and for all you
know it might actually have some bearing on the problem."
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 23 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in
performance.

I've owned and taken care of hundreds of Windows systems. That used to
sometimes happen in the bad old days of Windows 95 and earlier. Not
since Windows XP in my experience. If the system slows down, it's due
to some specific problems. Not from general "dirty registry" problems.
Leftover registry entries and disk files don't impact performance to
any significant degree unless there are other issues.

To some extent I agree. I see things from a slightly skewed angle I guess. Having manually gotten rid of the $$%*%$ Webshots I know it can be a pain in the ass. I have cured problems using regedit though. Recently I got "zarumba.exe" or whatever. I fixed that with a system restore and probably would never have caught it if my Java was up to date. It nagged me every minute, something it never used to do. My Java is still not updated and I cannot find one single thong that won't work because of it. That supports my claim as well as all those who agree.

It ain't broke. What do you do ?

The registry is a tricky place, it saves on the fly. That's right, delete the wrong key and IF you can weven get into safemode MAYBE a system restore will get it running again. It's like the service menu in some TVs. Damn, think of the RCAs in the satores you could just walk in a **** up. Lower the H freq until it shuts down and see what happens. Good old Mut-1-8-2 and tell the thing something like it is in Malasia or something or disable things. ROFF or something. It is just like that, you CAN **** it up royal.

And there is no "Save" button. It is done immediately but if you ****ed it up you won't know until your next reboot. That's why everyone says to stay out of it. Well, that and the fact that most of it is gibberish. When you go in there you do a search for the right string, usually a program name or something. When it hits, it should also give you the full path to it. Half the time a virus exe will be in your "App Data" under your username, but they sometimes hide in other places. Unless you have ****ed with explorer settings, the directory might not show up for you.

the way I put it to people who want to edit their registry manually is this - I can do this. I know how to do this. there are tools to do this, like control panel for one. Every setting almost, is in that registry and programs do it cleanly and nicely without error most of the time. I do not WANT to use regedit.exe, it is a last resort.

But then again, at one time I got almost DSL speed on wire. I used the wrong modem drivers, told it I was in Brazil, changed the MTU in the registry. OK it wasn't as fast as DSL but it was faster than all the other people with the 56K back in the day.

So I am not afraid of it, but I know to stay away from it unless there is good reason. Think of it as exploratory surgery.

That's about right.

Nil writes:

On 22 Nov 2013, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

In general, I would tend to agree with you.

However, the entire registry concept has, over the past 20+ years, morphed into
something a little more "grand" than perhaps originally intended. Lazy or
inexperienced programmers tend to put a lot of crap in there from their app that
might arguably be put somewhere else better. (Things like making the reg a place for
stuff that really ought to be in a temp file -- and we know how well apps clean up
after themselves in terms of temp usage.)

So the concept of a reg cleaner might not be bad, but there is indeed a LOT of snake
oil junk floating around out there (and dangerous junk at that -- both malware and
system breaking).

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive improvement and
didn't break anything.

Frank
Mobile Audio



--

the way I put it to people who want to edit their registry manually is this -
I can do this. I know how to do this. there are tools to do this, like control
panel for one. Every setting almost, is in that registry and programs do it
cleanly and nicely without error most of the time. I do not WANT to use
regedit.exe, it is a last resort.

So I am not afraid of it, but I know to stay away from it unless there is good
reason. Think of it as exploratory surgery.


Generally true.

You're usually safe yanking out stuff clearly related to a specific piece of
software. Other than that, you might be taking a chance.

In article ,
says...

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't
have problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use
the program's built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder
of the registry entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited
the registry by hand. The pro version is supposed to clean out
trash left from sloppy uninstalls.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_..._download.html

Thanks for the recommendation.

I've edited the Registry many times by hand, once to remove all references to
a piece of software I didn't want hanging around. "It's perfectly safe" if you
pay attention to what you're doing. I've never damaged anything.

I've never used a Registry cleaner. If I were going to use one, it would be
the one in Piriform's CCleaner (nee, Crap Cleaner). Piriforms makes good free
software (which is underwritten by the fancier versions other people pay for).

it's an absolute blast!

When I got my W7-64 bit machine, I had and old version of a program
that the installer was written in 16 bit mode, but the tool and all it's
goodies are in 32 bit mode.
So there was no option out there as for updated installers etc..

SO, the CD image has all of the files in-tacked as they would be
installed. I did a file copy of the complete image to the HD and created
the desktop icons etc.. also moved all the DLL's needed on the system
folder. Then I took a copy of the register keys for this app from my old
W2k machine and made that same key in the W7-64 for the 32 bit apps.
with some tweaks with paths, I now have it up and running in W7..

The reg is wonderful, as long as you know what to do!
Jamie

On 23.11.13 21:51, Frank Stearns wrote:
writes:

On 22 Nov 2013, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

In general, I would tend to agree with you.

However, the entire registry concept has, over the past 20+ years, morphed into
something a little more "grand" than perhaps originally intended. Lazy or
inexperienced programmers tend to put a lot of crap in there from their app that
might arguably be put somewhere else better. (Things like making the reg a place for
stuff that really ought to be in a temp file -- and we know how well apps clean up
after themselves in terms of temp usage.)

So the concept of a reg cleaner might not be bad, but there is indeed a LOT of snake
oil junk floating around out there (and dangerous junk at that -- both malware and
system breaking).

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive improvement and
didn't break anything.

Frank
Mobile Audio



Ccleaner.exe.
Used it several times, and it cleanly removes the remnants of
uninstalled software.

Les Cargill wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.


If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have
problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's
built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry
entries and leftover folders.

That's the main thing I use; yes.

Prior to this, I edited the registry by
hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy
uninstalls.


So does the free version.


Only for programs uninstalled with Revo Uninstaller, not for
previously removed programs.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't
have problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use
the program's built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder
of the registry entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited
the registry by hand. The pro version is supposed to clean out
trash left from sloppy uninstalls.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_..._download.html

Thanks for the recommendation.


You're welcome. It has saved me many hours of labor, when cleaning up
donated computers.


I've edited the Registry many times by hand, once to remove all references to
a piece of software I didn't want hanging around. "It's perfectly safe" if you
pay attention to what you're doing. I've never damaged anything.

I've never used a Registry cleaner. If I were going to use one, it would be
the one in Piriform's CCleaner (nee, Crap Cleaner). Piriforms makes good free
software (which is underwritten by the fancier versions other people pay for).


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
...

Ccleaner.exe.
Used it several times, and it cleanly removes the remnants of
uninstalled software.

It also lets you choose what you want to look for.

Nil wrote:

On 23 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in
performance.

I've owned and taken care of hundreds of Windows systems. That used to
sometimes happen in the bad old days of Windows 95 and earlier. Not
since Windows XP in my experience. If the system slows down, it's due
to some specific problems. Not from general "dirty registry" problems.
Leftover registry entries and disk files don't impact performance to
any significant degree unless there are other issues.

+1

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 04:43:24 -0500 "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in article KrCdnXhYy-


Les Cargill wrote:

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.


If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have
problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's
built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry
entries and leftover folders. Prior to this, I edited the registry by
hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy
uninstalls.

http://www.revouninstaller.com/revo_uninstaller_free_download.html

I endorse Revo, too. You have to be a little careful about its registry
cleanup if you choose the more "aggressive" post-uninstall scanning
options; it can propose to delete stuff that shouldn't be. For instance,
I have an Adobe CC subscription and created a CC folder. If I uninstall
an app and let Revo do it's aggressive thing, it'll try to zap entries to
other CC apps. It does warn you that the folder contains other apps, but
picking your way through all the possibilities is hopeless.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 01:16:27 +0100 "Sjouke Burry"
wrote in article 5291455e$0$6876


On 23.11.13 21:51, Frank Stearns wrote:
writes:

On 22 Nov 2013, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

In general, I would tend to agree with you.

However, the entire registry concept has, over the past 20+ years, morphed into
something a little more "grand" than perhaps originally intended. Lazy or
inexperienced programmers tend to put a lot of crap in there from their app that
might arguably be put somewhere else better. (Things like making the reg a place for
stuff that really ought to be in a temp file -- and we know how well apps clean up
after themselves in terms of temp usage.)

So the concept of a reg cleaner might not be bad, but there is indeed a LOT of snake
oil junk floating around out there (and dangerous junk at that -- both malware and
system breaking).

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive improvement and
didn't break anything.

Frank
Mobile Audio



Ccleaner.exe.
Used it several times, and it cleanly removes the remnants of
uninstalled software.

+1

On 11/23/2013 11:11 AM, Nil wrote:
On 23 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in
performance.

I've owned and taken care of hundreds of Windows systems. That used to
sometimes happen in the bad old days of Windows 95 and earlier. Not
since Windows XP in my experience. If the system slows down, it's due
to some specific problems. Not from general "dirty registry" problems.
Leftover registry entries and disk files don't impact performance to
any significant degree unless there are other issues.


My Windows box gets cranky when Updates are Waiting. It reminds me every
minute that the wireless is now connected. It only has one workspace. It
tells me the Paging File is too small but nothing more. If I didn't have
an iPod I wouldn't have Windows.

dave wrote:

On 11/23/2013 11:11 AM, Nil wrote:
On 23 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in
performance.

I've owned and taken care of hundreds of Windows systems. That used to
sometimes happen in the bad old days of Windows 95 and earlier. Not
since Windows XP in my experience. If the system slows down, it's due
to some specific problems. Not from general "dirty registry" problems.
Leftover registry entries and disk files don't impact performance to
any significant degree unless there are other issues.


My Windows box gets cranky when Updates are Waiting. It reminds me every
minute that the wireless is now connected. It only has one workspace. It
tells me the Paging File is too small but nothing more. If I didn't have
an iPod I wouldn't have Windows.


You need more RAM. As much as the motherboard and OS will support.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Frank Stearns wrote:
Nil writes:
snip

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive improvement and
didn't break anything.



I've used Eusing for a year or two ( or four ) now, with no
deleterious side effects.

Frank
Mobile Audio



--
Les Cargill

Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 23.11.13 21:51, Frank Stearns wrote:
writes:

On 22 Nov 2013, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

"Les wrote in message
...

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.

There are far easier ways to clean the registry.

Windows registry rarely if ever needs "cleaning". Unless you have some
specific problem, trying to do so is at best a waste of time and at
worst catastrophically destructive. There is a shady industry that
sells so-called "registry cleaning" software but what they're really
selling is snake oil.

In general, I would tend to agree with you.

However, the entire registry concept has, over the past 20+ years,
morphed into
something a little more "grand" than perhaps originally intended. Lazy or
inexperienced programmers tend to put a lot of crap in there from
their app that
might arguably be put somewhere else better. (Things like making the
reg a place for
stuff that really ought to be in a temp file -- and we know how well
apps clean up
after themselves in terms of temp usage.)

So the concept of a reg cleaner might not be bad, but there is indeed
a LOT of snake
oil junk floating around out there (and dangerous junk at that -- both
malware and
system breaking).

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive
improvement and
didn't break anything.

Frank
Mobile Audio



Ccleaner.exe.
Used it several times, and it cleanly removes the remnants of
uninstalled software.

ccleaner might be more of an uninstaller. That's not strictly the same
as a registry cleaner; but it's related. I mighta shoulda made a
clearer distinction between those.

To repeat: I use both Revo Uninstaller and Eusing Registry Cleaner,
and have had good results from both. But I have not ... measurements
to support that other than "nothing seemed to stop working".


--
Les Cargill

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

I used to have to do the annual reinstall to clean up
the registry.


If you use the right tools to uninstall crap programs, you don't have
problems with the registry. Revo Uninstaller lets you use the program's
built in uninstaller, then will clean the remainder of the registry
entries and leftover folders.

That's the main thing I use; yes.

Prior to this, I edited the registry by
hand. The pro version is supposed to clean ot trash left from sloppy
uninstalls.


So does the free version.


Only for programs uninstalled with Revo Uninstaller, not for
previously removed programs.



Ah! Hadn't considered that that might be something it even did.

--
Les Cargill

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in performance.

I don't really know very much about Windows systems.

Frankly, I don't either.

Part of the problem
with Windows systems is that you can't see inside the box, so conventional
diagnostics become impossible. This means most diagnosis is performed by
having a matrix of individual symptoms and solutions in your head, or on
google. People who work on Windows systems day in and day out develop
that.

So, when I have Windows issues, I go to someone whom I know is an expert
and who has a large matrix like that in his head. And when I mentioned
trying to help someone with a problem, he said the following:

"If you don't know what is going on, tell them that they have registry
corruption. Because they always do, and it sounds good, and for all you
know it might actually have some bearing on the problem."
--scott



--
Les Cargill

Nil wrote:
On 23 Nov 2013, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Then it was done to clean up whatever. All I know is that unless I
rebuilt the machine once a year, it would degrade slowly in
performance.

I've owned and taken care of hundreds of Windows systems. That used
to sometimes happen in the bad old days of Windows 95 and earlier.
Not since Windows XP in my experience. If the system slows down, it's
due to some specific problems. Not from general "dirty registry"
problems.


I may or may not be actually talking about "dirty registry" problems.
I have no data to support or deny that.

I know two things:

1) In order to improve performance of a Windows machine, I would to
an annual rebuild.

2) Using Revo Uninstaller and Eusing Registry Cleaner, that "annual"
at least became a longer period - longer than the machine remained
in active service - call it three years.

Leftover registry entries and disk files don't impact performance to
any significant degree unless there are other issues.


What you say is doubtless true; nonetheless...

What I did "worked". That is all I can really say about it; I don't
have an identified cause, and only a partially perceptible
effect. I don't believe it was a placebo effect. If I had to
characterize the result, it was that general ... latency improved - a
lot - after these operations.

I am nobody's Windows admin except my own. I don't "do" Windows
internals; I don't have any professional relationship *with* Windows
other than as a user.

I've managed to find other ways to entertain myself

--
Les Cargill

Jeff Henig wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
Nil writes:
snip

I am curious if anyone has used a reg cleaner that made a positive improvement and
didn't break anything.



I've used Eusing for a year or two ( or four ) now, with no
deleterious side effects.

Frank
Mobile Audio



--
Les Cargill

"No deleterious side effects" due to deleting items that have been deleted.

-_-

Nice.

There's a joke in there somewhere...



The joke is on us, I am afraid.

--
Les Cargill

On 11/24/2013 10:05 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:




You need more RAM. As much as the motherboard and OS will support.


It's an Asus XP netbook I got off the junk pile at Best Buy. Genuine
Intel Atom with 2 cores. It works OK for ebay and iTunes to update my
iPod. I remember replacing the RAM it came with with one twice the size,
but I forgot the exact numbers. It's living on borrowed time..