Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD



I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)
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William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Shotgunning is the true mark of a very poor tech. They don't
want to learn why things fail, or what parts are actually needed.


Might I respectfully semi-disagree?

I have always wanted to understand why something wasn't working correctly
before I fixed it. But as products have become more complex and harder to
troubleshoot, it seems increasingly necessary to, on some occasions, shotgun.
I don't like it, but if you're running a repair business, you have to get the
item out the door to stay in business.

If it's of any interest, I have never had a callback on anything I've
repaired. But that was in the days when virtually all electronics was composed
of discrete components you could unsolder and test, if need be.



William, the more you actually find the problem and repair what's
needed, the easier and faster it is to do on future jobs. You develop
an understanding for what kinds of parts are the highest failures, and
use logic to narrow down the problem. For instance, surface mount
ceramic resistors and capacitors have a low failure rate, but the
electrolytics have a high failure rate by comparison? Would you shotgun
a couple hundred chip caps, just in case? Would you replace a dozen
ICs, just in case?

The more parts you change on a modern surface mount board, the higher
the chances of destroying the board. It was simpler on tube radios, and
early discrete solid state designs, but it takes a lot of time and
expense to shotgun VLSI and ASIC ICs on a board.

Logical troubleshooting was the method I was taught in the mid '60s,
and after a few years on the bench I was the most productive tech.
Also, the repair costs were lower because I didn't replace as many
parts, nd the customer didn't have to wait for custom parts to be
ordered from the OEM, 'just in case'.
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On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD



I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^

TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD



I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^



Then they call you a cab?


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On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^



Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^

TDD
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On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 10:03:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

The microscope photos were awful, grainy, and somewhat otto focus but
sufficient to make a few observations:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/
I left the microscope setup in my office and will try to take some
better pictures with better objective lenses and better lighting on
Monday night. Bottom lighting didn't work because the "plastic rot"
was too thick. It also wrecked the focus as my depth of field is very
limited at x100 and x400. Maybe lower power will help.


I took some more photos, but they were about the same as the others.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/
The particle sizes are too thick to get a decent photo due to the lack
of depth of field. I just wanted one that shows the plastic like
shine, that is characteristic of plastics, and not mold. I'll melt or
set fire to the stuff later this week.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Then they call you a cab?

That joke goes back at least as far as William S Gilbert. He was tall and
authoritative-looking. A man mistook him for one of those people who stand of
hotels, and asked him to "Call me a cab".

"Very well... You're a four-wheeler."

"Wha...?"

"You said to call you a cab -- and I couldn't very well call you hansom."
(punning on handsome)

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The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^



Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^



Not yours?
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William Sommerwerck wrote:

Then they call you a cab?


That joke goes back at least as far as William S Gilbert. He was tall and
authoritative-looking. A man mistook him for one of those people who stand of
hotels, and asked him to "Call me a cab".

"Very well... You're a four-wheeler."

"Wha...?"

"You said to call you a cab -- and I couldn't very well call you hansom."
(punning on handsome)



I know it's an old joke. I use them as throwaways. ;-)


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On 3/5/2013 2:23 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^


Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^



Not yours?


No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^

TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 2:23 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^


Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^



Not yours?


No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^



You snooze, you lose! ;-)
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On 3/5/2013 5:44 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 2:23 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^


Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^


Not yours?


No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^



You snooze, you lose! ;-)


Heck, she's like family anyway. Her late father and me were friends and
we did a lot of contracting work together so now when she and her mom
need help with something, they call me. ^_^

TDD
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Attila Iskander wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"micky" wrote in message
...
My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
mold. And the rest never get mold.

I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
be clean.


The plastic in some tool handles will break down over a period of
time. It is just bad quality plastic. Even some other wise good tools
have this problem.
If it only some tools and always the same ones, you just have to
replace the tools when the handles fall off.



Just use that dipping handle cover.
Here's one such product
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip
I have different tool boxes for different uses, such as electrical,
plumbing, carpentry, car, bicycle, motorbike, general, etc.
I get it in different colors, to identify which tool box or
"application" tool kit they belong to. It has really cut down on tool
"evaporation". It also has made enforcement of tool replacement to it's
proper box far easier with other family members.




I wonder if this is an example of an actual good use for WD-40? Too many
people use it as a lubricant instead of what it was designed to be - a
tool protective coating...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


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The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 5:44 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 2:23 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^


Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^


Not yours?


No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^



You snooze, you lose! ;-)


Heck, she's like family anyway. Her late father and me were friends and
we did a lot of contracting work together so now when she and her mom
need help with something, they call me. ^_^



Do they call you anything that you can repeat in polite company? ;-)
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On 3/5/2013 9:21 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 5:44 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 2:23 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 11:25 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 3/5/2013 12:56 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I met a cute little 4 year old girl one day and because I flirt with
gals of all ages, I asked her if she would marry me when I grow up.
The tyke looked me up and down and said "You're already grown up." to
which I replied, "You're the first girl who's ever said that to me." ^_^

TDD


I'll bet she said that to all the boys! ;-)


I teach my tiny girlfriends to tell a funny looking guy who asks for
their hand in marriage to reply. "I can't possibly marry you, I'm not
an ordained minister." ^_^


Then they call you a cab?


One of my baby girlfriends sent me a picture of her daughters. I've
known her since she was a little girl and now she's 30 and has two
munchkins of her own. ^_^


Not yours?


No, not mine. When she was little I always asked her if she would marry
me when I grew up but she grew up to be a beautiful young woman who met
and married a handsome young man and they now have two little daughters.
The oldest is three and the youngest 7 months old. ^_^


You snooze, you lose! ;-)


Heck, she's like family anyway. Her late father and me were friends and
we did a lot of contracting work together so now when she and her mom
need help with something, they call me. ^_^



Do they call you anything that you can repeat in polite company? ;-)


Yes, but it's a secret. ^_^

TDD
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On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:25:01 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

Attila Iskander wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"micky" wrote in message
...
My shop is in my basement, which has always seemed to be a very dry
floor. However, about 4% of my cords, my spare radio and tv knobs,
and the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on
them. It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)

I wasg them in the dishwasher and they come out clean, but once in the
basement again, after a few months, U notice that the same ones have
mold. And the rest never get mold.

I suppose I could just ignore this, since it doesn't spread, but I
wonder if any of you have ideas. No other part of my house is neat
or clean, but the shop is the most important place, and I'd like it to
be clean.

The plastic in some tool handles will break down over a period of
time. It is just bad quality plastic. Even some other wise good tools
have this problem.
If it only some tools and always the same ones, you just have to
replace the tools when the handles fall off.



Just use that dipping handle cover.
Here's one such product
http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip
I have different tool boxes for different uses, such as electrical,
plumbing, carpentry, car, bicycle, motorbike, general, etc.
I get it in different colors, to identify which tool box or
"application" tool kit they belong to. It has really cut down on tool
"evaporation". It also has made enforcement of tool replacement to it's
proper box far easier with other family members.




I wonder if this is an example of an actual good use for WD-40? Too many
people use it as a lubricant instead of what it was designed to be - a
tool protective coating...


Uh, oh...
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The following spam just arrived...

Dear purchaser
How are you? This is Steven from MingTong surface treatment co.ltd.
Specialized in plastic component and surface treatment over 12 years.Owning
the good reputation by nice price and quality.If you want to know more details
please don't hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Steven chan
sales manager
MingTong surface treatment co.ltd.

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William Sommerwerck wrote:

The following spam just arrived...

Dear purchaser
How are you? This is Steven from MingTong surface treatment co.ltd.
Specialized in plastic component and surface treatment over 12 years.Owning
the good reputation by nice price and quality.If you want to know more details
please don't hesitate to contact us.



Ask them why their plastic turns white and stinks after a few years.
;-)


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Dan Espen wrote on Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:31:47 -0500:

To my knowledge, it has never been figured out before
Here you go:
http://tinyurl.com/bwwkvgr


Thanks for the reference, but, unfortunately, there
were no pictures nor any discussion of the white residue
on the handles in that thread.
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On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 09:47:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I took some more photos, but they were about the same as the others.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/
The particle sizes are too thick to get a decent photo due to the lack
of depth of field. I just wanted one that shows the plastic like shine,
that is characteristic of plastics, and not mold. I'll melt or set fire
to the stuff later this week.


Hi Jeff,

Here is a closeup of one of my 'white encrusted' screwdriver handles:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12360594.jpg

Here is a smaller picture if that's too large:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12360594.jpg

What would you suggest I do to confirm the identity of the substance?

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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:29:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real mold to
grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
dust. Hit is with some heat, and watch it melt


Here is a big zoomable picture of yet another of my screwdrivers
with the white crust on the outside next to a battery with similar
looking white powdery residue. Do you think the crud is related?
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12361204.jpg

The question, since all my screwdrivers are from the 1980s,
is why some and not others would have the white stuff.
(Note: I inscribed the date on this screwdriver in 1981.)

I do think these white ones were those that I worked in hospitals
with at that time but I don't know if there is any connection.
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On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:34:52 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 09:47:28 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I took some more photos, but they were about the same as the others.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/
The particle sizes are too thick to get a decent photo due to the lack
of depth of field. I just wanted one that shows the plastic like shine,
that is characteristic of plastics, and not mold. I'll melt or set fire
to the stuff later this week.


Here is a closeup of one of my 'white encrusted' screwdriver handles:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12360594.jpg

Here is a smaller picture if that's too large:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12360594.jpg

What would you suggest I do to confirm the identity of the substance?


Scrape off some with a knife. Put the scrapings on a tea spoon,
spatula, or metal something. Heat over a low flame. The melting
point of acrylic is 320F (160C). Monitor the temp with an IR
thermometer. If it melts and is kinda rubbery when warm, it's
plastic. If it burns, it might be mold.

Your screwdriver shows a finer pattern of plastic rot than my hex
wrench. It looks similar but may be a slightly different plastic type
(presumed to be acrylic). I can't tell from here.

If you feel ambitious, scrape off a sample, and mail it to me (address
below is my office) and I'll put it under the microscope and post a
photo. Be careful with the packaging so the USPS doesn't think it's
Anthrax or cocaine.

Any hint as to the manufacturer of the screwdriver?

I'm still not 100.0% sure about the white stuff. For example, what's
this?
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-10937245/stock-photo-home-made-dry-wurst-with-thin-coating-of-white-mold.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:39:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 09:29:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

It's not mold. It appears to be mold, but if you look carefully, it
doesn't "grow" in a radial pattern, as you would expect real mold to
grow. I've put the dust under a microscope to be sure. It's plastic
dust. Hit is with some heat, and watch it melt


Here is a big zoomable picture of yet another of my screwdrivers
with the white crust on the outside next to a battery with similar
looking white powdery residue. Do you think the crud is related?
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12361204.jpg


The stuff leaking out of the alkaline battery is potassium hydroxide.
It can be cleaned off with any weak acid. Just smear on some vinegar
to the battery first. If it fizzes and foams, try doing the same to
the screwdriver. If you get the same fizz and foam, it's potassium
hydroxide.

The question, since all my screwdrivers are from the 1980s,
is why some and not others would have the white stuff.
(Note: I inscribed the date on this screwdriver in 1981.)

I do think these white ones were those that I worked in hospitals
with at that time but I don't know if there is any connection.


Well, if it is mold, it has to be one of the slowest growing mold
infestations I have ever seen. I used to manage my fathers apartment
building and I know (black) mold when I see it. The plastic stuff is
nothing like it.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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Default mold forms on cords, knobs, and tool handles

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:06:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

The stuff leaking out of the alkaline battery is potassium hydroxide.


Oops. The electrolyte is potassium hydroxide. The white residue is
potassium carbonate.
2KOH + CO2 - K2CO3 + H2O
Sorry(tm).
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Default mold forms on cords, knobs, and tool handles

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:57:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Any hint as to the manufacturer of the screwdriver?


Hi Jeff,

They're all Craftsman screwdrivers, all bought in the
1980s from Sears. The 3 I have with the white stuff were
used when I worked in a hospital fixing biomed equipment.

I'll get it to you; I can drive to your office also.
It would be worth the trip just to put this decades-old
mystery to rest.

We could also try the Myth-Busters up in San Francisco,
but this might not have the cachet of blowing things up
(but maybe we'll find a superbug?).

(I'll take this over to email for the visit as I'm not so
free with my personal information as you are.)

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Default mold forms on cords, knobs, and tool handles

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:21:50 -0500, micky wrote:

the handles of my tools get a think layer of some sort of mold on them.
It's like a grey dust. (Or some other light color, I forget.)


As the OP, you have more responsibilities than the rest of us.

As such, would you kindly snap a photo of what you're talking about
so the rest of us can compare it to our screwdriver handles.

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