"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.

Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.

If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

?-)

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:30:30 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.

Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.

If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

?-)

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

I am not talking about household ideas. I am talking technical chemistry.
Ammonia, including household varieties, have the same chemistry, an acid
with a KA of about -10 so it looks basic compared to other acids (even
distilled water), including carbonic acid (H2CO3 (soda pop) which fizzes
in the presence of strong acids.

?-)

"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:30:30 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:
"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.
Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.
If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

I am not talking about household ideas. I am talking technical chemistry.
Ammonia, including household varieties, have the same chemistry, an acid
with a KA of about -10 so it looks basic compared to other acids (even
distilled water), including carbonic acid (H2CO3 (soda pop) which fizzes
in the presence of strong acids.

I think it's time for a chemist to step in and explain this. The argument
that an acid "looks basic" compared to stronger acids makes little sense to
me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_dissociation_constant

josephkk wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:30:30 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.

Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.

If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

?-)

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

I am not talking about household ideas. I am talking technical chemistry.
Ammonia, including household varieties, have the same chemistry, an acid
with a KA of about -10 so it looks basic compared to other acids (even
distilled water), including carbonic acid (H2CO3 (soda pop) which fizzes
in the presence of strong acids.

?-)

every MSDS I've ever seen for ammonium hydroxide says it's a base.

On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:44:40 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd

wrote:

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an amazing
variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.


Those 'forms' are mainly volatile solvents, the residue is the
same old stuff.

The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
well.


It isn't much of a secret; the patent dates back to late sixties; it's a
liquid semiconductor that makes a tenacious film/coating.



I couldn't find a German patent. What's a liquid semiconductor?

I'm looking at US patent 4696832; there are probably others, the patent
refers to prior use of these materials. It's a long-chain molecule with decorations,
so the 'formula' is complex (mainly lots of different chain lengths).

Semiconductors have few free charge carriers, but low electric fields cause
breakdown (really, charge injection at metal contacts). So, that's the kind of
behavior this liquid is engineered for. In thin sections (one micron) it's
just about like a conductor, but in long tracks (one millimeter) it insulates.
The nonlinearity of its conduction makes it suitable for sloshing onto
insulating surfaces.

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

I couldn't find a German patent. What's a liquid semiconductor?

I'm looking at US patent 4696832; there are probably others, the patent
refers to prior use of these materials. It's a long-chain molecule with decorations,
so the 'formula' is complex (mainly lots of different chain lengths).

http://www.google.com/patents/US4696832

Semiconductors have few free charge carriers, but low electric fields cause
breakdown (really, charge injection at metal contacts). So, that's the kind of
behavior this liquid is engineered for. In thin sections (one micron) it's
just about like a conductor, but in long tracks (one millimeter) it insulates.
The nonlinearity of its conduction makes it suitable for sloshing onto
insulating surfaces.

Thanks. That makes sense. I was assuming it was some kind of
directional semiconductor, such as in a liquid diode.
http://ilyam.org/CR-ROM_IYPT_1999/16_Liquid_diode_Austria_I_61-73_IYPT_1999.pdf

Looks like the contact coating is still a liquid even at the molecular
plating thickness. My guess is that the liquid displaces a higher
resistance oxide layer with a more conductive "liquid" layer thereby
enhancing conductivity. Nice.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks for the info about Tweak.

I have a tiny bottle, which I only used on my pickup lugs.

I've wondered of what use it is, when you (presumably) get quantum
tunneling, whether or not Tweak is a "conductor".

whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:44:40 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd

wrote:

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an amazing
variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.


Those 'forms' are mainly volatile solvents, the residue is the
same old stuff.

The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
well.


It isn't much of a secret; the patent dates back to late sixties; it's a
liquid semiconductor that makes a tenacious film/coating.



I couldn't find a German patent. What's a liquid semiconductor?

I'm looking at US patent 4696832; there are probably others, the patent
refers to prior use of these materials. It's a long-chain molecule with decorations,
so the 'formula' is complex (mainly lots of different chain lengths).

Semiconductors have few free charge carriers, but low electric fields cause
breakdown (really, charge injection at metal contacts). So, that's the kind of
behavior this liquid is engineered for. In thin sections (one micron) it's
just about like a conductor, but in long tracks (one millimeter) it insulates.
The nonlinearity of its conduction makes it suitable for sloshing onto
insulating surfaces.

over 20 years ago in the US, they sold some amazingly expensive liquid to
slosh on your DIP, SIPP and ZIP memory chips to make them not error out in
their sockets. The stuff was sold as being super magical and ultra
engineered magic. Just pressing stuff back into their sockets always
worked just fine for me.

Cydrome Leader wrote:

over 20 years ago in the US, they sold some amazingly expensive liquid to
slosh on your DIP, SIPP and ZIP memory chips to make them not error out in
their sockets. The stuff was sold as being super magical and ultra
engineered magic. Just pressing stuff back into their sockets always
worked just fine for me.


Of course it did, if you didn't want a real fix. All that did was
wipe off enough oxidation for temporary operation, like wiggling the
knob on a dirty TV tuner when they were mechanical.

On 10/08/2012 02:40 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:44:40 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an amazing
variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.


Those 'forms' are mainly volatile solvents, the residue is the
same old stuff.

The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
well.


It isn't much of a secret; the patent dates back to late sixties; it's a
liquid semiconductor that makes a tenacious film/coating.



I couldn't find a German patent. What's a liquid semiconductor?

I'm looking at US patent 4696832; there are probably others, the patent
refers to prior use of these materials. It's a long-chain molecule with decorations,
so the 'formula' is complex (mainly lots of different chain lengths).

Semiconductors have few free charge carriers, but low electric fields cause
breakdown (really, charge injection at metal contacts). So, that's the kind of
behavior this liquid is engineered for. In thin sections (one micron) it's
just about like a conductor, but in long tracks (one millimeter) it insulates.
The nonlinearity of its conduction makes it suitable for sloshing onto
insulating surfaces.

over 20 years ago in the US, they sold some amazingly expensive liquid to
slosh on your DIP, SIPP and ZIP memory chips to make them not error out in
their sockets. The stuff was sold as being super magical and ultra
engineered magic. Just pressing stuff back into their sockets always
worked just fine for me.

Stabilant-22?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 10/08/2012 02:40 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:44:40 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:29:02 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an amazing
variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.


Those 'forms' are mainly volatile solvents, the residue is the
same old stuff.

The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
well.


It isn't much of a secret; the patent dates back to late sixties; it's a
liquid semiconductor that makes a tenacious film/coating.



I couldn't find a German patent. What's a liquid semiconductor?

I'm looking at US patent 4696832; there are probably others, the patent
refers to prior use of these materials. It's a long-chain molecule with decorations,
so the 'formula' is complex (mainly lots of different chain lengths).

Semiconductors have few free charge carriers, but low electric fields cause
breakdown (really, charge injection at metal contacts). So, that's the kind of
behavior this liquid is engineered for. In thin sections (one micron) it's
just about like a conductor, but in long tracks (one millimeter) it insulates.
The nonlinearity of its conduction makes it suitable for sloshing onto
insulating surfaces.

over 20 years ago in the US, they sold some amazingly expensive liquid to
slosh on your DIP, SIPP and ZIP memory chips to make them not error out in
their sockets. The stuff was sold as being super magical and ultra
engineered magic. Just pressing stuff back into their sockets always
worked just fine for me.

Stabilant-22?

It might have been. I'd have to drag out the old magazine to see. It's too
bad they never made junky IC sockets that when vibrated and temperature
cycled would worked the leads in into the socket and not away from it.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

over 20 years ago in the US, they sold some amazingly expensive liquid to
slosh on your DIP, SIPP and ZIP memory chips to make them not error out in
their sockets. The stuff was sold as being super magical and ultra
engineered magic. Just pressing stuff back into their sockets always
worked just fine for me.


Of course it did, if you didn't want a real fix. All that did was
wipe off enough oxidation for temporary operation, like wiggling the
knob on a dirty TV tuner when they were mechanical.

the real fix is not having dozens of chips in cheap sockets. Luckily those
days are over. we've moved onto exploding capacitors instead.

"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:30:30 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.

Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.

If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

?-)

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

I am not talking about household ideas. I am talking technical chemistry.
Ammonia, including household varieties, have the same chemistry, an acid
with a KA of about -10 so it looks basic compared to other acids (even
distilled water), including carbonic acid (H2CO3 (soda pop) which fizzes
in the presence of strong acids.

?-)

I probably missed the conversation by now.... This is a good discussion.

You are correct if you are talking about relative acidity - any compound with a hydrogen bond can be considered either acidic or basic:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche.../bronsted.html

One example is the Degussa process reacts NH3 and CH4, where ammonia acts as an acid....

http://jack.ecosse.org/design/98-9/d.../BMA-prog.html

Likewise, compared with most other acidic gases and liquids, ammonia acts as a base. Like this experiment shows when you mix gaseous HCl and NH3....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0M-Q65VQHs

And so, there you have it! Everybody wins!

Bob

PS -- Whut dew I win?

"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 17:30:30 -0700, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"josephkk" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:24:08 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I prefer household ammonia, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush.

Ammonia is a base, as is the electrolyte -- like dissolves like.

If you care to get more chemically correct ammonia is a weak acid.

?-)

I think he meant household, which is a base...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#Properties

I am not talking about household ideas. I am talking technical chemistry.
Ammonia, including household varieties, have the same chemistry, an acid
with a KA of about -10 so it looks basic compared to other acids (even
distilled water), including carbonic acid (H2CO3 (soda pop) which fizzes
in the presence of strong acids.

?-)

I probably missed the conversation by now.... This is a good discussion.

You are correct if you are talking about relative acidity - any compound with a hydrogen bond can be considered either acidic or basic:
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genche.../bronsted.html

One example is the Degussa process reacts NH3 and CH4, where ammonia acts as an acid....

http://jack.ecosse.org/design/98-9/d.../BMA-prog.html

Likewise, compared with most other acidic gases and liquids, ammonia acts as a base. Like this experiment shows when you mix gaseous HCl and NH3....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0M-Q65VQHs

And so, there you have it! Everybody wins!

Bob

PS -- Whut dew I win?

===

Now I wish I hadn't posted this...... so here's the warning...

DANGER: DO NOT DO THIS HCl - NH3 experiment -- or mix ammonia with anything. The white 'smoke' in that video is actually super fine ammonium chloride powder. All 3 of these chemicals can burn your skin or cause permanent damage to lungs, etc. And if you spill any of these, your mama (or the lovely wife) will kill you -- if you live through it.