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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...sbs_00_01_t_lh http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3...sbs_00_02_t_lh http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg) http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI |
#2
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in 230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch fire. Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper as they don't fail like MOV ones. You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it. Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward. If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will CREATE lightening. If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening strikes. I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz) antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and 10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening) it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges started to build up, they were dissipated. When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought when the lightening returned. :-( Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. |
#3
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in 230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch fire. The IEEE (largest association of electrical and electronic engineers in the US) says that "90% of both hard-wired and plug-in protectors use MOVs to perform the voltage-limiting function. In most AC protectors, they are the only significant voltage limiters.". MOVs work fine. In the US, since 1998, UL has required suppressors have a thermal disconnect to disconnect failing MOVS. I have seen no reason to believe fires are a problem on UL listed suppressors made since 1998. Would think that "230v land" would have similar requirements. Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper as they don't fail like MOV ones. If you get high ratings, MOV based suppressors are not likely to fail. It is one reason why some suppressors can have warranties on connected equipment. You can, of course, buy what you want. You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it. Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward. Polarity reverses? The usual process is for charge do descend in steps - a stepped leader. When the charge gets close enough to the earth the final link is a stroke from the earth to end of the stepped leader. If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will CREATE lightening. There is not a lot of research on what end on a lightning rod (now called air terminals) is most effective. The best information I have seen is that a 5/8" diameter rounded point is more effective, and the difference is minimal. Rods protect by being the highest point. They are a safe "point of attachment" for the lightning that will occur anyway. If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening strikes. I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz) antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and 10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening) it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges started to build up, they were dissipated. There are commercial lightning protection systems that claim to work by dissipating charge. Everything I have seen is that they don't work. I believe they lost a court case in the US. When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought when the lightening returned. :-( Geoff. -- bud-- |
#4
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 30, 10:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in 230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch fire. Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper as they don't fail like MOV ones. You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it. Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward. If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will CREATE lightening. If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening strikes. I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz) antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and 10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening) it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges started to build up, they were dissipated. When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought when the lightening returned. :-( Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. Geoff: Lightening is what Michael Jackson did to his face. Lightning is that big electrical discharge from the sky G Bob Hofmann |
#5
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
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#6
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 30, 10:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote: mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in 230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch fire. Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper as they don't fail like MOV ones. You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it. Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward. If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will CREATE lightening. If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening strikes. I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz) antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and 10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening) it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges started to build up, they were dissipated. When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought when the lightening returned. :-( Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. I think you mean lightning. |
#7
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
The "parallel" components (such as MOVs) in a surge suppressor will have
some effect on every other parallel line (lines connected to the same phase). It doesn't matter whether any device is attached to the suppressor, or is turned on. |
#8
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On 1/31/2011 12:13 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
The "parallel" components (such as MOVs) in a surge suppressor will have some effect on every other parallel line (lines connected to the same phase). It doesn't matter whether any device is attached to the suppressor, or is turned on. Sigh.... NO. Parallel though they may be, they really only protect things that are "beyond" (or very close) to them. Other branches have enough series impedance as far as transients are concerned to deliver on hell of a spike regardless of what a MOV is doing 50-100' of wiring away Jeff |
#9
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. It is an engineered device with internal protection matched to the MOVs. I would never repair one. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. Surge hits to a MOV deteriorate it. With high ratings a suppressor will last a very long time. The worst case surge on a service power line to your house that has any reasonable chance of occurring is 10,000A. Suppressors with much higher ratings are readily available. For a house, the IEEE recommends ratings of 20,000 to 70,000A _per wire_. For high lightning areas the recommendation is 40,000 to 120,000A _per wire_. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Make sure your fire insurance covers the suppressor you engineered. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...sbs_00_01_t_lh This has minimal information and no ratings. Didn't look at the two below. http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3...sbs_00_02_t_lh http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg) http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Also has minimal information and no ratings. If it only protects one wire don't get it - get one made for a service protecting both wires. I do like SquareD as a brand. -- bud-- |
#10
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:07:53 -0600, bud--
wrote: mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. It is an engineered device with internal protection matched to the MOVs. I would never repair one. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. Surge hits to a MOV deteriorate it. With high ratings a suppressor will last a very long time. The worst case surge on a service power line to your house that has any reasonable chance of occurring is 10,000A. Suppressors with much higher ratings are readily available. For a house, the IEEE recommends ratings of 20,000 to 70,000A _per wire_. For high lightning areas the recommendation is 40,000 to 120,000A _per wire_. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Make sure your fire insurance covers the suppressor you engineered. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...sbs_00_01_t_lh This has minimal information and no ratings. Didn't look at the two below. Yes, the Amazon ads seem to have less info than one would want on something like this. There are specs somewhere, adn I'll find them and compare with what you've said. I've been here 28 years and once I found smoke coming out of the burglar alarm keypad/controller unit (yes, both) by the front door, which might have been caused by lightning, although I didn't remember any. Still the amount of vulerable equipment keeps growning and growing. Thanks, for this thread and the previous one, and thanks everybody. http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3...sbs_00_02_t_lh http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg) http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Also has minimal information and no ratings. If it only protects one wire don't get it - get one made for a service protecting both wires. I do like SquareD as a brand. |
#11
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 30, 8:03*am, mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. Also ask if the damage to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance. |
#12
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
"whit3rd" wrote in message ... On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. Also ask if the damage to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance. If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously bodgeing something togeather it should be fine. |
#13
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"
wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message ... On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what? Say I repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one. So they should still pay. I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and read new instruction manuals. Also ask if the damage to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance. If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously bodgeing something togeather it should be fine. Yes. Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge suppressor on my insureance. So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild a surge suppressor. |
#14
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 11:57*am, mm wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message news:844078cf-ed6d-493b-a693-227b095fc__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i? ... On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Ask your home insurance agent. *It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. * I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what? *Say I repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one. * So they should still pay. * I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and read new instruction manuals. Also ask if the damage to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance. If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously bodgeing something togeather it should be fine. Yes. *Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge suppressor on my insureance. So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild a surge suppressor. Yes. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=2062574# You can also rent a suppressor from the electric company which they will install in your meter. I have no idea how they would know if it goes bad. greg |
#15
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 12:01*pm, GS wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:57*am, mm wrote: On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message news:844078cf-ed6d-493b-a693-227b095fc__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i? a63jfAD$__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a ... On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Ask your home insurance agent. *It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. * I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what? *Say I repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one. * So they should still pay. * I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and read new instruction manuals. Also ask if the damage to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance. If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously bodgeing something togeather it should be fine. Yes. *Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge suppressor on my insureance. So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild a surge suppressor. Yes. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=2062574# You can also rent a suppressor from the electric company which they will install in your meter. I have no idea how they would know if it goes bad. greg Compare this to the Leviton Joule rating. http://www.tripplite.com/en/products...txtModelID=121 |
#16
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 8:57*am, mm wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message news:844078cf-ed6d-493b-a693-227b095fc__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i? ... On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? Ask your home insurance agent. *It's unlikely that the prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is going to be highly regarded. * I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what? *Say I repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one. * So they should still pay. * A whole-house suppressor is wired without any circuit breaker protection, usually inside the circuit breaker box. Every item in that box has a "UL" or other safety certification, and NONE are intended for disassembly or repair. Your insurer may well claim contributory negligence if the item has been modified or altered. If something inside a 2 foot breaker box shoots 3 foot flames, the house is at hazard. Faulty fuses, breakers, or whole-house suppressors are intended to remain safe (they're fail-safe devices); it's normal to replace them when they fail. |
#17
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Leviton. Ground it well with as short ground wire as possible to good house ground. On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:03:05 -0500, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order: http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...sbs_00_01_t_lh http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3...sbs_00_02_t_lh http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Levito...otector/p.aspx and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg) http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI -- Boris |
#18
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 30, 11:03*am, mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. *When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. *I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...se-Surge-Suppr... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is another http://www.drillspot.com/products/12...1_Phase_240VAC Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. greg |
#19
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 9:45*am, GS wrote:
On Jan 30, 11:03*am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. *When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. *I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...ction-Device/d...... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre... Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. greg So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need TWO. There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the manufacturers seem to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable devices by Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my breaker box and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house. You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of problem that requires attention. greg |
#20
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote: On Jan 31, 9:45*am, GS wrote: On Jan 30, 11:03*am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. *When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. *I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...ction-Device/d...... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre... Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. Thanks. Now it's 56 dollars. I see that Amazon has this 36 also including shipping. greg So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need TWO. Oh, thank you. I got confused by the drawing, at http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/upl...8291-0014F.pdf which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like some others have. Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit breakers? Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity but others say nothing about it. Because the circuits I wanted to use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv current or a cordless phone charger running. It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." That means when all three wires are running together, right? In conduit or something? Once they separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting them, is there? There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the manufacturers seem to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable devices by Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my breaker box If thse are secondary, as they also call them, then where is the primary? On the electric pole? and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house. You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of problem that requires attention. I've never even needed one. I was just planning ahead. greg Thanks a lot, GB, and thanks everyone. |
#21
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 12:19*pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS wrote: On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS wrote: On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...ction-Device/d...... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre... Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. Thanks. *Now it's 56 dollars. * I see that Amazon has this 36 also including shipping. greg So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need TWO. Oh, thank you. *I got confused by the drawing, athttp://surgelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SDSA1175_IB_8291-001... which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like some others have. * Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit breakers? *Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity but others say nothing about it. * *Because the circuits I wanted to use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv current or a cordless phone charger running. Codes may be different. Some circuit breakers will work with two wires, many will NOT. Its specified in the breaker specs. It may be against code in your area. The picked up the cheapest Home Depot and it will work with two wires, and stranded wires. It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." *That means when all three wires are running together, right? *In conduit or something? *Once they separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting them, is there? Right. There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the manufacturers seem to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable devices by Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my breaker box If thse are secondary, as they also call them, then where is the primary? *On the electric pole? Secondary seems to mostly refer to devices near or attached to the equipment. Like, your whole house air conditioner might use a secondary suppressor near the unit, which is fed from the breaker box wiring. Secondary devices will be attached via a breaker in any case. Primary?? Maybe the one in the meter. and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house. You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of problem that requires attention. I've never even needed one. *I was just planning ahead. greg Good going. greg Thanks a lot, GB, and thanks everyone. |
#22
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
mm wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS wrote: On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS wrote: On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...ction-Device/d...... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre... Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. Thanks. Now it's 56 dollars. I see that Amazon has this 36 also including shipping. greg So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need TWO. Oh, thank you. I got confused by the drawing, at http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/upl...8291-0014F.pdf which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like some others have. It is intended for installation in a service panel. In the US, the service panel (containing the service disconnect) has the neutral and ground bonded together In a subpanel (with separate neutral and ground bars) there would be separate wires for the neutral and ground. Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit breakers? Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity but others say nothing about it. Because the circuits I wanted to use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv current or a cordless phone charger running. It shouldn't matter. (You are suppressing surges on the service busbars, not branch circuit. Not obvious if you were saying something different.) It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." That means when all three wires are running together, right? In conduit or something? Once they separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting them, is there? A surge is a very short-time event. Therefore it has relatively high frequency components. The inductance of the wire is more important than the resistance. Wire length is more important than it would seem. You want a short connecting wires from the suppressor to the panel connections. That is why the instructions say "keep the wire length as short as possible. If the wires are in close proximity the wire inductance is reduced. That is why the wires are slightly twisted. There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the manufacturers seem to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable devices by Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my breaker box A useful rating for a MOV is its joule rating. UL does not have a defined way of specifying joules. As a result some manufacturers are using misleading or deceptive joule ratings on their products, which puts honest manufacturers at a disadvantage. As a result, some manufacturers no longer provide a joule rating. The amp rating is equivalent, but defined. A high amp rating (like a high joule rating) indicates a suppressor will have a long life. A plug-in suppressor with high ratings could have an amp rating higher than a service panel suppressor. (There is no possibility of a very high current on a branch circuit; high current ratings just reflects a high joule rating.) MOVs intrinsically try to limit the voltage across their terminals. In a service panel the H-N voltages are limited (also H-H). That can result in a high current to earth. Most of the energy in the incoming surge is dumped to the earth. A small part of the energy is dissipated in the MOVs. At a plug-in suppressor, the MOVs also limits the voltage H-G, N-G and H-N. Because of the impedance of the ground wire, not much energy gets dumped to the earth. But because of the impedance of the H and N, there is similarly a very limited current that can flow. Energy dissipated in the MOVs is surprisingly small (and there is another reason for this). But the "ground potential" at the suppressor can be far different from the service panel. All interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same suppressor and all external wires (power, phone, cable, ...) need to go through the suppressor. The voltage on all wires is clamped to the ground at the suppressor. -- bud-- |
#23
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 31, 2:23*pm, bud-- wrote:
mm wrote: On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS wrote: On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS wrote: On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm wrote: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. *When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. *I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...ction-Device/d....... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to take it apart you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre... Drillspot sells Grainger stuff. Thanks. *Now it's 56 dollars. * I see that Amazon has this 36 also including shipping. greg So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need TWO. Oh, thank you. *I got confused by the drawing, at http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/upl...75_IB_8291-001... which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like some others have. * It is intended for installation in a service panel. In the US, the service panel (containing the service disconnect) has the neutral and ground bonded together I have yet to see suppressor not intended to be connected to breakers in a service panel. I also don't like to call these surge, but SPIKE yes. Surges to me a re very slow increases in voltage over the safe limit. You can usually make local neutrals by connecting ground to a neutral, or make it using an isolation transformer, which makes ground to neutral noise non existent at that point. greg In a subpanel (with separate neutral and ground bars) there would be separate wires for the neutral and ground. Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit breakers? *Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity but others say nothing about it. * *Because the circuits I wanted to use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv current or a cordless phone charger running. It shouldn't matter. (You are suppressing surges on the service busbars, not branch circuit. Not obvious if you were saying something different.) It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." *That means when all three wires are running together, right? *In conduit or something? *Once they separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting them, is there? A surge is a very short-time event. Therefore it has relatively high frequency components. The inductance of the wire is more important than the resistance. Wire length is more important than it would seem. You want a short connecting wires from the suppressor to the panel connections. That is why the instructions say "keep the wire length as short as possible. If the wires are in close proximity the wire inductance is reduced. That is why *the wires are slightly twisted. There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the manufacturers seem to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable devices by Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my breaker box A useful rating for a MOV is its joule rating. *UL does not have a defined way of specifying joules. As a result some manufacturers are using misleading or deceptive joule ratings on their products, which puts honest manufacturers at a disadvantage. As a result, some manufacturers no longer provide a joule rating. The amp rating is equivalent, but defined. A high amp rating (like a high joule rating) indicates a suppressor will have a long life. *A plug-in suppressor with high ratings could have an amp rating higher than a service panel suppressor. (There is no possibility of a very high current on a branch circuit; high current ratings just reflects a high joule rating.) MOVs intrinsically try to limit the voltage across their terminals. In a service panel the H-N voltages are limited (also H-H). That can result in a high current to earth. Most of the energy in the incoming surge is dumped to the earth. A small part of the energy is dissipated in the MOVs.. At a plug-in suppressor, the MOVs also limits the voltage H-G, N-G and H-N. Because of the impedance of the ground wire, not much energy gets dumped to the earth. But because of the impedance of the H and N, there is similarly a very limited current that can flow. Energy dissipated in the MOVs is surprisingly small (and there is another reason for this). But the "ground potential" at the suppressor can be far different from the service panel. All interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same suppressor and all external wires (power, phone, cable, ...) need to go through the suppressor. The voltage on all wires is clamped to the ground at the suppressor. -- bud-- |
#24
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
mm wrote in
: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Totally unnecessary. Call your power company about every other year and file a report that your lights are blinking when the wind blows. They'll send out a service truck to investigate with a guy we don't pay anywhere near enough to risk his life working around the 23KV primary on the pole. Ask him to check your house's connections at the pole for tightness, paying special attention to the NEUTRAL connections, which are the ONLY way your 120VAC can surge up to 240VAC if neutral comes loose and there's a big load on the OTHER phase from the one your computer is on. While he's there, ask him to inspect the grounding on your meter base and verify its lightning gap hasn't been damaged by any hits. It's inside the meter base and he's the only one with a replacement seal to install. Please consider offering these great lineman a refreshing beverage to say thank you for the free service they provide you. I usually show up with a cold Coke for each of them as they are nesting the bucket and stowing their HV gloves. I'm more of a shock to them than anything the generators can produce....(c;] If it's quitting time when they finish, I move from Coke to a quality beer as they've had a hard shift in the hot sun. Guess who's power gets restored FIRST after the next storm!....(c;] If your house if FIRMLY attached to the pole transformer, "surges" are virtually impossible UNLESS you get hit by lightning. NO surge protector, no matter how expensive, says anything about LIGHTNING PROTECTOR, ever. That would be a lie. The 23KV primary phase of America's 3 phase Tesla multiphase AC power system is quite stable. The natural magnetic hysteresis of the 60 hz core in your distribution transformer prevents any pulses from being sent to your house until the lightning protector in its primary fuse holder explodes in defeat. "Surge Protector" is a great sales gimmick. If you want to save your computer, buy it a nice UPS to protect it from LOSING power, especially during disk write operations where you can lose EVERYTHING on that drive. If you're intent on spending money, please consider replacing your breaker panel breakers on all electrical outlets and appliances with GFI breakers, making it much less possible to kill a child sticking a metal object into America's absurdly designed bladed receptacles designed in 1900. The only way to get shocked after their installation is to get right across the powerline from hot to neutral, which rarely happens to kill anyone. I support GFI installation 100%! |
#25
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
"Fred" wrote in message .. . mm wrote in : Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. Totally unnecessary. Call your power company about every other year and file a report that your lights are blinking when the wind blows. They'll send out a service truck to investigate with a guy we don't pay anywhere near enough to risk his life working around the 23KV primary on the pole. Ask him to check your house's connections at the pole for tightness, paying special attention to the NEUTRAL connections, which are the ONLY way your 120VAC can surge up to 240VAC if neutral comes loose and there's a big load on the OTHER phase from the one your computer is on. While he's there, ask him to inspect the grounding on your meter base and verify its lightning gap hasn't been damaged by any hits. It's inside the meter base and he's the only one with a replacement seal to install. Please consider offering these great lineman a refreshing beverage to say thank you for the free service they provide you. I usually show up with a cold Coke for each of them as they are nesting the bucket and stowing their HV gloves. I'm more of a shock to them than anything the generators can produce....(c;] If it's quitting time when they finish, I move from Coke to a quality beer as they've had a hard shift in the hot sun. Guess who's power gets restored FIRST after the next storm!....(c;] If your house if FIRMLY attached to the pole transformer, "surges" are virtually impossible UNLESS you get hit by lightning. NO surge protector, no matter how expensive, says anything about LIGHTNING PROTECTOR, ever. That would be a lie. The 23KV primary phase of America's 3 phase Tesla multiphase AC power system is quite stable. The natural magnetic hysteresis of the 60 hz core in your distribution transformer prevents any pulses from being sent to your house until the lightning protector in its primary fuse holder explodes in defeat. "Surge Protector" is a great sales gimmick. If you want to save your computer, buy it a nice UPS to protect it from LOSING power, especially during disk write operations where you can lose EVERYTHING on that drive. If you're intent on spending money, please consider replacing your breaker panel breakers on all electrical outlets and appliances with GFI breakers, making it much less possible to kill a child sticking a metal object into America's absurdly designed bladed receptacles designed in 1900. The only way to get shocked after their installation is to get right across the powerline from hot to neutral, which rarely happens to kill anyone. I support GFI installation 100%! I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. As to the "free" service, that is not true. We pay for the service in the distribution fees on the electric bill. So it's the same as "free health care". As to the service guys getting paid what they deserve, that's between them and the utility. I would offer them a well deserved chilly also. tm |
#26
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
tm wrote: I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. -- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated. |
#27
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... tm wrote: I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. -- So don't use them on either. They are usually blocked for child access anyway. tm |
#28
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
tm wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... tm wrote: I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. So don't use them on either. They are usually blocked for child access anyway. A GFCI won't protect a kid from sticking something into an outlet and killing themselves if they are across line & neutral. -- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated. |
#29
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
m: No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. So, you're saying it's ok if the motor windings are leaking to, or worse, connected to the chassis of the fridge as long as it's grounded? That's the only thing that makes the GFCI trip....about 10ma of something's wrong. Back in the 1980's, I submitted a Navy Beneficial Suggestion that GFCIs be installed at all electronic benches in our calibration and test equipment repair facilities after an apprentice technician nearly killed herself pulling a TV-7 tube tester out of its case, inadvertently not unplugging it. The TV-7 has a big rheostat right close to the case on the bottom (sitting up) with exposed windings where the slidewire contact is. She really got burned as she was also touching exposed, highly grounded metal parts of her workbench (another benny sugg submission). Months went by and Navy accepted my suggestion system wide, not just in our shop, handing me a very nice check for both suggestions. We had some equipment that tripped the GFCI every time, frustrating the hell out of the bench techs who blamed me. 3 benches, themselves, tripped out every time it was reset. Leaking line filters in every case, and the Navy loves line filters, were the problem. Once the leaking line filters were replaced, making the equipment SAFE should the ground connection become open, the problem disappeared. Equipment in the shipyard became safer to operate because of it. Some metal cased test equipment no longer "bit" its user with low AC voltages on its grounded case, something we never figured out. It must have been miswired grounds in the ships crazy balanced 115VAC line systems. GFCIs fixed it because they instantly detected faulty line filters, transformers with windings touching the frames or miswired equipment that had been used for years. None of my GFCIs on any appliances trips, except during major thunderstorms. If they do trip, there's a reason....leaky appliances. One hot water tank ago, there was a heater coil shorted to its metal calrod sleeve quite near the balance point of the 240VAC line. This ground fault only shorted out around 12% of the element's resistor so the element just ran hot in one place, but cold in another from the imbalanced load shooting high current through the little ground wire. The GFCI found this short as soon as it happened, eliminating a potential electrical fire hazard if the current had overrun the flimsy ground wire. I think many electrical fires could be stopped if GFCI were required on all circuits....including faulty appliances that trip them. |
#30
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Fred wrote:
I think many electrical fires could be stopped if GFCI were required on all circuits....including faulty appliances that trip them. Here in Israel they are required by the electric company BEFORE main breakers. You can't get a new connection without one, and every few years there is an advertising campaign to get people to install them in old homes. We have 230 volt single phase service, and 230 volt 3 phase split into three separate circuits, so we don't have the 120/240 problem in the US that was previously discussed. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. |
#31
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
tm wrote: I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. It was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration. But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those exceptions are gone. Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles. The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA. Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem. -- bud-- |
#32
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
bud-- wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: tm wrote: I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea. No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in the US to use a GFCI to power either. It was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration. But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those exceptions are gone. Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles. The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA. Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem. Try to get someone to replace a refrigerator that trips a GFCI once every six months. -- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's Teflon coated. |
#33
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
Fred wrote:
... If your house if FIRMLY attached to the pole transformer, "surges" are virtually impossible UNLESS you get hit by lightning. "You" don't have to get hit. Strikes to power lines can cause damaging surges into a building. So can close strikes. Surges can also enter on cable and phone wires. And there are other sources of damaging surges. NO surge protector, no matter how expensive, says anything about LIGHTNING PROTECTOR, ever. That would be a lie. The surge guru at the NIST looked at essentially a worst case event - a 100,000A lightning strike to the high voltage wire on a utility pole (with transformer) behind a house with typical urban overhead distribution. There are multiple paths to earth. The surge to the house was 10,000A max for each service wire to the house. Service panel suppressors are readily available with higher ratings. The probability of a worse strike is close to zero. You can protect from very close lightning strikes. Lightning strikes to a building, of course, require lightning rods. The 23KV primary phase of America's 3 phase Tesla multiphase AC power system is quite stable. The natural magnetic hysteresis of the 60 hz core in your distribution transformer prevents any pulses from being sent to your house until the lightning protector in its primary fuse holder explodes in defeat. Doesn't need the transformer. In the example above, a utility lightning arrestor (installed on all the distribution transformers around here) dumps the strike to earth via the grounding electrode on the pole. Since the resistance to earth of that electrode is a few ohms at best, the "ground potential" at the pole rises thousands of volts above "absolute earth potential", and more particularly, above the earth potential at the house. Since the secondary neutrals are connected to the "ground" at the pole, this causes a large surge on the neutral to the house. A significant portion of that surge is transferred to the hot wires by inductive and capacitive coupling. Usually the next worst to lightning for surges are normal and abnormal utility operations. Potentially one of the worst of these is switching of power factor correction capacitors. Utility produced surges can also get into a building and cause damage to equipment. "Surge Protector" is a great sales gimmick. It is a "gimmick" use by the IEEE in an excellent guide on surges and surge protection at: http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf And by the US-NIST in a surge guide at. http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf This one is less technical and aimed at the unwashed masses. Both say surges from lightning and other sources are a problem and you can protect against them. =============== In something that hasn't come up in this thread - the NIST guide, using US insurance information as one source, suggests that high voltage between power and cable/telephone/.... wires causes much of the damage, not just a surge reaching equipment through the power wires. The IEEE surge guide has an example of such damage starting pdf page 40. To protect from high voltage between power and phone/cable wires, the ground wire from the entrance protector for both phone and cable has to be short and connect to the power earthing system near the power service. If wires are too long, surges coming in on phone or cable wiring can produce high voltage between those wires and power wires. That is what is shown in the IEEE guide example starting pdf page 40. With a large surge, the building ground can rise thousands of volts above "absolute earth potential". Much of the protection is that power and phone and cable wires rise together. Particularly for expensive equipment with power and phone/cable connection a plug-in suppressor may be useful. All interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same suppressor, and all external wires - phone/cable/... - need to go through the suppressor. The voltage on all wires is clamped to the ground at the suppressor. (This is also in the example in the IEEE guide starting pdf page 40.) -- bud-- |
#34
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Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
On Jan 30, 12:03*pm, mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones. I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. *When one of them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does. I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even those units that might have them. Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on) I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly. Items for sale, if interested: I can install it myself. *I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1...se-Surge-Suppr... and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1.../dp/B002GUZ1NI I think that repairing a whole house surge protector is like trying to repair a circuit breaker. OK, technically it can be done, but there is no way to reliabily test them for performance after the repair. For instance, after opening a 20A circuit breaker to "fix it", there is no way to be sure that the breaker will trip at their designated ampacity. The same applies to a whole house surge protector... there is no way to test it for reliability after the repair. Also, there is the risk that the repaired protector catches fire when the time to clamp a surge comes if it wasn´t properly repaired. To me trying to save 100 or 200 US$ is no excuse for taking the risk of burning down a whole house. |
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