Hi,

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Thx,
--don

On Sep 29, 2:54*pm, D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi,

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). *Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Thx,
--don

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Neil S.

"D Yuniskis" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Thx,
--don

The biggest problem by far, is failure of the soldered joints on the actual
dock connector. The connector has a metal surround with at least four tabs
for soldering it to the board to provide mechanical strength to the
assembly, and it is very typical to find that at least two of the tabs have
no print provision for soldering them, or if there is, that the joint has
just broken away. This allows the connector to flex, and the inevitable
result is that the lead-free joints on the pins, which lack the ductility of
leaded solder joints, give way. Symptoms can be anything from failure of the
iPod to be recognised, no control of the iPod, no audio on one or both
channels, or combinations of those problems either hard or intermittent. It
is staggeringly difficult to repair these connections successfully no matter
what soldering technique is used. This is due in no small part to the print
itself, which invariably seems to be very thin and fragile, and often not
well bonded to the pcb substrate. Some manufacturers eg Sony, supply a
replacement board with the connector fitted, for some of their models. The
problem is not restricted to any particular manufacturer. It seems to be a
problem for them all, and is, I feel, just another consequence of replacing
leaded solder technology which worked just fine, with lead-free, which
doesn't ...

Arfa

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Neil,

nesesu wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:54 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Most of these devices seem to have "sticky" (persistent) failures
when I encounter them. I.e., it is not a transient issue associated
with some action on my part.

For example, I have a unit, now, that runs well for "some amount of
time" and then *appears* to keep running -- though any attempts to
interact with it (the "dock") are ignored. E.g., withOUT an iPod
docked into it, I can select the "RADIO" funtion, tune a station
using the up/down buttons, adjust the volume, etc. The radio
will play as expected. Some time later, an attempt to alter the
volume or change the station will be totally ignored. Or, the
device might power itself *off* unprovoked.

I.e., it is as if the processor in the thing has crashed and:
- left things "as is" (in the case where the radio keeps playing
but buttons are ignored)
or
- crashed and "reset" all the I/O to "off" in the process.

Behaviors on other devices have been similar. It is as if
ESD has toasted something internally so that it only marginally
works -- or works temporarily.

shrug Most of these aren't worth the time to fix. I was
just curious as to why so man of them -- different models,
different manufacturers, etc. -- were exhibiting the same
sorts of general failures.


Lead free solder.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Hi Neil,

nesesu wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:54 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Most of these devices seem to have "sticky" (persistent) failures
when I encounter them. I.e., it is not a transient issue associated
with some action on my part.

For example, I have a unit, now, that runs well for "some amount of
time" and then *appears* to keep running -- though any attempts to
interact with it (the "dock") are ignored. E.g., withOUT an iPod
docked into it, I can select the "RADIO" funtion, tune a station
using the up/down buttons, adjust the volume, etc. The radio
will play as expected. Some time later, an attempt to alter the
volume or change the station will be totally ignored. Or, the
device might power itself *off* unprovoked.

I.e., it is as if the processor in the thing has crashed and:
- left things "as is" (in the case where the radio keeps playing
but buttons are ignored)
or
- crashed and "reset" all the I/O to "off" in the process.

Behaviors on other devices have been similar. It is as if
ESD has toasted something internally so that it only marginally
works -- or works temporarily.

shrug Most of these aren't worth the time to fix. I was
just curious as to why so man of them -- different models,
different manufacturers, etc. -- were exhibiting the same
sorts of general failures.

--don

Hi Arfa,

Arfa Daily wrote:

"D Yuniskis" wrote in message
...

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

The biggest problem by far, is failure of the soldered joints on the
actual dock connector. The connector has a metal surround with at least
four tabs for soldering it to the board to provide mechanical strength
to the assembly, and it is very typical to find that at least two of the
tabs have no print provision for soldering them, or if there is, that
the joint has just broken away. This allows the connector to flex, and
the inevitable result is that the lead-free joints on the pins, which
lack the ductility of leaded solder joints, give way. Symptoms can be
anything from failure of the iPod to be recognised, no control of the
iPod, no audio on one or both channels, or combinations of those
problems either hard or intermittent. It is staggeringly difficult to
repair these connections successfully no matter what soldering technique
is used. This is due in no small part to the print itself, which
invariably seems to be very thin and fragile, and often not well bonded
to the pcb substrate. Some manufacturers eg Sony, supply a replacement
board with the connector fitted, for some of their models. The problem
is not restricted to any particular manufacturer. It seems to be a
problem for them all, and is, I feel, just another consequence of
replacing leaded solder technology which worked just fine, with
lead-free, which doesn't ...

So far, the problems I have seen are independant of the iPod.
E.g., the box has problems "on its own" -- even without an
iPod docked. I am assuming it is either a consequence of
crappy components or related to ESD-type damage consequential
to the exposure of live circuits to the user (no idea where
all of those pins on the iPod connector are tied, internally).

(please see my reply to Neil a specific example)

--don

On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:51:18 -0400 "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in Message id:
:


D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Neil,

nesesu wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:54 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Most of these devices seem to have "sticky" (persistent) failures
when I encounter them. I.e., it is not a transient issue associated
with some action on my part.

For example, I have a unit, now, that runs well for "some amount of
time" and then *appears* to keep running -- though any attempts to
interact with it (the "dock") are ignored. E.g., withOUT an iPod
docked into it, I can select the "RADIO" funtion, tune a station
using the up/down buttons, adjust the volume, etc. The radio
will play as expected. Some time later, an attempt to alter the
volume or change the station will be totally ignored. Or, the
device might power itself *off* unprovoked.

I.e., it is as if the processor in the thing has crashed and:
- left things "as is" (in the case where the radio keeps playing
but buttons are ignored)
or
- crashed and "reset" all the I/O to "off" in the process.

Behaviors on other devices have been similar. It is as if
ESD has toasted something internally so that it only marginally
works -- or works temporarily.

shrug Most of these aren't worth the time to fix. I was
just curious as to why so man of them -- different models,
different manufacturers, etc. -- were exhibiting the same
sorts of general failures.


Lead free solder.

+ Chinese manufacturing.

JW wrote:

On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:51:18 -0400 "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in Message id:
:


D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Neil,

nesesu wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:54 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Most of these devices seem to have "sticky" (persistent) failures
when I encounter them. I.e., it is not a transient issue associated
with some action on my part.

For example, I have a unit, now, that runs well for "some amount of
time" and then *appears* to keep running -- though any attempts to
interact with it (the "dock") are ignored. E.g., withOUT an iPod
docked into it, I can select the "RADIO" funtion, tune a station
using the up/down buttons, adjust the volume, etc. The radio
will play as expected. Some time later, an attempt to alter the
volume or change the station will be totally ignored. Or, the
device might power itself *off* unprovoked.

I.e., it is as if the processor in the thing has crashed and:
- left things "as is" (in the case where the radio keeps playing
but buttons are ignored)
or
- crashed and "reset" all the I/O to "off" in the process.

Behaviors on other devices have been similar. It is as if
ESD has toasted something internally so that it only marginally
works -- or works temporarily.

shrug Most of these aren't worth the time to fix. I was
just curious as to why so man of them -- different models,
different manufacturers, etc. -- were exhibiting the same
sorts of general failures.


Lead free solder.

+ Chinese manufacturing.


= Cheap, throwaway crap.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:32:30 -0400 "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in Message id:
:


JW wrote:

On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:51:18 -0400 "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote in Message id:
:


D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Neil,

nesesu wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:54 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I come across a fair number of "defective" iPod "stereos"
(countertop boxes into which an iPod is docked). Is there
something intrinsically bad with these (besides being
crappy consumer kit) that drives these failures?

(e.g., the docking and undocking of the iPod without, perhaps,
adequate protection on the interconnect signals)

Well, if it is like many cordless phones, placing the handset onto the
base while carrying a large static charge will scramble the base
operation. On mine I need to unplug the wall wart from the base unit
to restore operation. Unfortunately, the base always faults to the OFF-
LINE state and puts a high level of receiver noise on the line and the
only indication that it is not working is a). no calls received and b)
picking up a wired phone greets you with the high level noise.
I have repaired lots of equipment that has no factory installed ESD
protection on the user interface and usually has a damaged interface
chip or device. Most of these devices were industrial and the designer
should have known better.

Most of these devices seem to have "sticky" (persistent) failures
when I encounter them. I.e., it is not a transient issue associated
with some action on my part.

For example, I have a unit, now, that runs well for "some amount of
time" and then *appears* to keep running -- though any attempts to
interact with it (the "dock") are ignored. E.g., withOUT an iPod
docked into it, I can select the "RADIO" funtion, tune a station
using the up/down buttons, adjust the volume, etc. The radio
will play as expected. Some time later, an attempt to alter the
volume or change the station will be totally ignored. Or, the
device might power itself *off* unprovoked.

I.e., it is as if the processor in the thing has crashed and:
- left things "as is" (in the case where the radio keeps playing
but buttons are ignored)
or
- crashed and "reset" all the I/O to "off" in the process.

Behaviors on other devices have been similar. It is as if
ESD has toasted something internally so that it only marginally
works -- or works temporarily.

shrug Most of these aren't worth the time to fix. I was
just curious as to why so man of them -- different models,
different manufacturers, etc. -- were exhibiting the same
sorts of general failures.


Lead free solder.

+ Chinese manufacturing.


= Cheap, throwaway crap.

* Wasted money.

JW wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

JW wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Lead free solder.

+ Chinese manufacturing.

= Cheap, throwaway crap.

* Wasted money.


* Cheapskates don't care. All they care is that it's
CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.