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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
Hello:
I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. |
#2
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On 24/06/2010 3:04 PM, Steve Sousa wrote:
Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. No. It's highly unlikely that the wire used in the motor is more than 100% overspecified, so if you remove turns from it to make it run at the same speed on 120v, it will overheat, because the current will approximately double. Sylvia. |
#3
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:29:35 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote: On 24/06/2010 3:04 PM, Steve Sousa wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. No. It's highly unlikely that the wire used in the motor is more than 100% overspecified, so if you remove turns from it to make it run at the same speed on 120v, it will overheat, because the current will approximately double. Sylvia. There is one high labor alternative that might work... Take the current wire on the motor, and find the center, break it at that point, so you have two 120 volt windings. Put in parallel for 120 volts, and series for 240 volts. But, IMHO, hardly worth the effort, but technically feasible. |
#4
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On 24/06/2010 9:46 PM, PeterD wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:29:35 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: On 24/06/2010 3:04 PM, Steve Sousa wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. No. It's highly unlikely that the wire used in the motor is more than 100% overspecified, so if you remove turns from it to make it run at the same speed on 120v, it will overheat, because the current will approximately double. Sylvia. There is one high labor alternative that might work... Take the current wire on the motor, and find the center, break it at that point, so you have two 120 volt windings. Put in parallel for 120 volts, and series for 240 volts. But, IMHO, hardly worth the effort, but technically feasible. I'm not sure it's advisable either. There's every chance the enamel will be damaged in the process. If he's lucky, any short will appear as soon as he turns it on. If he's unlucky, it will occur when he's not looking. Sylvia. |
#5
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:04:00 +1000, Sylvia Else
wrote: On 24/06/2010 9:46 PM, PeterD wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:29:35 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: On 24/06/2010 3:04 PM, Steve Sousa wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. No. It's highly unlikely that the wire used in the motor is more than 100% overspecified, so if you remove turns from it to make it run at the same speed on 120v, it will overheat, because the current will approximately double. Sylvia. There is one high labor alternative that might work... Take the current wire on the motor, and find the center, break it at that point, so you have two 120 volt windings. Put in parallel for 120 volts, and series for 240 volts. But, IMHO, hardly worth the effort, but technically feasible. I'm not sure it's advisable either. There's every chance the enamel will be damaged in the process. If he's lucky, any short will appear as soon as he turns it on. If he's unlucky, it will occur when he's not looking. Sylvia. Advisable, probably not, but a theoritical solution, however! bg |
#6
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On 25/06/2010 10:37 AM, PeterD wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:04:00 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: On 24/06/2010 9:46 PM, PeterD wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:29:35 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: On 24/06/2010 3:04 PM, Steve Sousa wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. No. It's highly unlikely that the wire used in the motor is more than 100% overspecified, so if you remove turns from it to make it run at the same speed on 120v, it will overheat, because the current will approximately double. Sylvia. There is one high labor alternative that might work... Take the current wire on the motor, and find the center, break it at that point, so you have two 120 volt windings. Put in parallel for 120 volts, and series for 240 volts. But, IMHO, hardly worth the effort, but technically feasible. I'm not sure it's advisable either. There's every chance the enamel will be damaged in the process. If he's lucky, any short will appear as soon as he turns it on. If he's unlucky, it will occur when he's not looking. Sylvia. Advisable, probably not, but a theoritical solution, however!bg That I agree with. Sylvia. |
#7
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
In article s.com,
"Steve Sousa" wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. Hmm, I always thought you could get anything on the planet to any other place on the planet. How could you not be able to get a 120V fan? |
#8
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article s.com, "Steve Sousa" wrote: Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. Hmm, I always thought you could get anything on the planet to any other place on the planet. How could you not be able to get a 120V fan? Hello: The problem is cost. The OEM doesn't have it, people who have it are selling for 130$ +, that's too much for the original. Customs takes a lot of time "inspecting" and figuring how much to charge (about 30% on top of that). Best Regards |
#9
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Steve Sousa" The problem is cost. The OEM doesn't have it, people who have it are selling for 130$ +, that's too much for the original. Customs takes a lot of time "inspecting" and figuring how much to charge (about 30% on top of that). ** What electronics backwater are you living in ?? Here in Sydney, one can get a 115 VAC, 120 mm fan from spare parts dealer ( WES Components) for $18.75. ..... Phil |
#10
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Jun 23, 10:04*pm, "Steve Sousa" wrote:
I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Rewinding the mains-powered parts of a fan is a bad idea. Better ideas: get a 120V fan motor, find an alternate power source (there's a DC supply somewhere in the amplifier, can it drive a DC fan?), use a small boost transformer or autotransformer. Quickest solution might be to use a 'standard' computer-parts fan (takes DC power) with a 230VAC wallwart power brick. |
#11
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Jun 23, 10:04*pm, "Steve Sousa" wrote:
Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? Thank you. do you have room for other components? use two identical fans wired in series? or, use a 120/120 isolation transformer with 230 across both [properly phased] and tap off the 115 for the fan, or, add a series inductor? some transformers are built very well and can be abused. 120/12.6 filament transformer. place the 12.6Vac winding in series. That will put 120+ across the secondary, but might take it, plus the inductance is smaller looking into that winding and you might get the right voltage drop, experimentation required. or, use a series cap? something like 22uF to 33uF AC cap [note: AC cap, not some electrolytic, unless rated for it, they're not made to have this much AC current go through and electrolytic requires nonpolar, or two back to back] - require experimentation. or, if there is enough DC power: buy a DC fan rated for the same air flow against head pressure and use it. |
#12
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Robert Macy" "Steve Sousa" I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? do you have room for other components? use two identical fans wired in series? ** Read the question - idiot. The OP needs a 120 volt fan and has not got one. or, use a 120/120 isolation transformer with 230 across both [properly phased] and tap off the 115 for the fan, or, add a series inductor? ** Read the question - idiot. The OP needs a 120 volt fan and has not got one. Jeez wot a macaroon. ..... Phil |
#13
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Jun 24, 5:12*pm, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"Robert Macy" "Steve Sousa" I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier.. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? do you have room for other components? use two identical fans wired in series? ** Read the question - idiot. *The OP needs a 120 volt fan and has not got one. or, use a 120/120 isolation transformer with 230 across both [properly phased] and tap off the 115 for the fan, or, add a series inductor? ** Read the question - idiot. *The OP needs a 120 volt fan and has not got one. *Jeez wot a macaroon. .... * Phil No excuse, just braindead this afternoon! Wait that's an excuse! |
#14
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Steve Sousa" I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? ** That idea is never gonna work - have you ever seen the insides of such a fan ?? One possibility is to connect a capacitor in * series * with the fan of such a value that it causes the inductance of the motor to resonate at the supply frequency. This will increase the voltage across the fan above the incoming supply. A 230 volt, 120mm fan I tried resonates with about 3uF in series. With 120 volts AC input, the voltage across the fan became 165 volts and the speed was then close to that with 230 volts. Worth a try. Use a cap rated for 240 volt AC operation. ..... Phil |
#15
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:00:46 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote: "Steve Sousa" I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? ** That idea is never gonna work - have you ever seen the insides of such a fan ?? One possibility is to connect a capacitor in * series * with the fan of such a value that it causes the inductance of the motor to resonate at the supply frequency. This will increase the voltage across the fan above the incoming supply. A 230 volt, 120mm fan I tried resonates with about 3uF in series. With 120 volts AC input, the voltage across the fan became 165 volts and the speed was then close to that with 230 volts. Worth a try. Use a cap rated for 240 volt AC operation. .... Phil Ooh, interesting potential solution! |
#16
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Steve Sousa" wrote in message anews.com... Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? **That would be the insane solution. And one which won't work. You don't say where you are, but obtaining 120VAC fans is simply not that difficult, regardless of where you are. Alternatively, you could source a suitable DC fan (say: 48 Volts) and use that, connected to a DC supply line within the amp. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#17
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Steve Sousa" wrote in message anews.com... Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? **That would be the insane solution. And one which won't work. You don't say where you are, but obtaining 120VAC fans is simply not that difficult, regardless of where you are. Alternatively, you could source a suitable DC fan (say: 48 Volts) and use that, connected to a DC supply line within the amp. How about using a 1:1 small xformer and doing series boost on the secondary with the primary connected to the 120 side.. This way, a 240 volt fan can be used in a 120 volt area.. etc.. Jamie. |
#18
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can i remove turns from shaded pole motor
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message ... "Steve Sousa" wrote in message anews.com... Hello: I live in a 230V area but need to use a 120V fan to repair an amplifier. I can only get 230V fan motors here, so i was wondering if i can simply remove turns from a 230v shaded pole motor to make it into a 120v one? **That would be the insane solution. And one which won't work. You don't say where you are, but obtaining 120VAC fans is simply not that difficult, regardless of where you are. Alternatively, you could source a suitable DC fan (say: 48 Volts) and use that, connected to a DC supply line within the amp. Hello: I could eventually get a 120V fan for a much higher cost, but the original was probably disposed of because of that, i'm just going to add a relay, and put a 230v fan with the minimum amount of modification, that way is future proof. Thank you all for your help Best regards Steve Sousa |
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