I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

Michael

On Mon, 25 May 2009 21:45:42 -0500, msg wrote:

I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

I use several programs. Photostitch 3.1 came with my Canon Camera.
Not the best, but good enough for my panorama photos. Example:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/LivingRoom01.html
Find someone with a Canon digital camera and borrow the CD.

More photo stitching softwa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_photo_stitching_applications_(softwa re)

Light reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_stitching

I use some specialized panorama software for taking radio coverage
photos from the top of towers and rooftops. My favorite of the week
is Panorama Factory:
http://www.panoramafactory.com ($80).
Note that to do any panorama properly, you need an indexed sequencer
with a built in 2 axis bubble level. Something like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_tripod_head
http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2359
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/gear/more-gear/gadget-bag/gear-for-panoramas.html
http://www.gigapansystems.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GS&Product_Cod e=I-E1

I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

I've stitched together about 30 images, consisting of 8 megapixel 24
bit BMP images using Panorama Factory without difficulties. The
result was something like a 1.5 Gigabyte file size. It also took
about an hour on my ancient PIII/1GHz. The latest version supports 64
bit processors, which may work better if your images are truely huge
and numerous or possibly hitting a 2GByte file size limit.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 21:45:42 -0500, msg wrote:


I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics)

snip

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?


I use several programs.

snipped list

Have you used any of them to stitch 1bpp scans of schematics? I found
a tutorial for using 'hugin' (opensource) to stitch scans; it is an
involved procedure and it worked for me in a test of stitching two
1600dpi 8.5x11 1bpp scans of a schematic, but took twenty minutes on
a 700MHz pIII. Since my scanner doesn't have much racking distortion,
I can live with simple joins and MS Photoed permits previewed dragging
of selected areas with shrinking and expanding, so it would be a quicker
solution (it needs a LOT of physical ram however). Can anyone point me
to a stand alone installer for it?

I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

Well, a typical 'large' collection for me would be eight 1600dpi 8.5x11
1bpp scans; I imagine that with a simple photo editor, I would work with
two at a time.

I've stitched together about 30 images, consisting of 8 megapixel 24
bit BMP images using Panorama Factory without difficulties. The
result was something like a 1.5 Gigabyte file size. It also took
about an hour on my ancient PIII/1GHz. The latest version supports 64
bit processors, which may work better if your images are truely huge
and numerous or possibly hitting a 2GByte file size limit.

Sounds faster than what I am getting using 'hugin', whose optimizer only
has selections for SSE and number of CPUs; if I can figure out how to get
it to 'nudge' the joins instead of blending, I would expect that it would
work faster.

Michael

msg wrote:
I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

Michael

XaraXtreme4 does a wonderful job with photographs, is really fast and
simple to use, I don't see why it wouldn't work with line drawings.
There`s a free demo from www.xara.com

On Tue, 26 May 2009 02:53:06 -0500, msg wrote:

Have you used any of them to stitch 1bpp scans of schematics?

No. The problem is that I have access to a nifty overpriced Canon
document scanner and overpriced software that scans directly to PDF.
It also has a reader, which makes the resultant text indexable. The
problem is that it doesn't have a stitching feature for the
schematics. There is software available that will stitch PDF files,
but I've never bothered to try any. In the distant past, I did stitch
some JPG schematic scans with Irfanview, but the resultant distortion
at the seams was deemed unacceptable. Irfanview wasn't really
designed to do stitching anyway. No clue on the MS installer.

I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

Well, a typical 'large' collection for me would be eight 1600dpi 8.5x11
1bpp scans; I imagine that with a simple photo editor, I would work with
two at a time.

No. I would work with all 8 images at the same time. Canon
PhotoStitch is typical. I line up the images in the order in which I
want them stitched. I then define the borders if necessary. Punch
"run" and wait a while. My guess(tm) is that Canon PhotoStitch would
take about 10 minutes max to do your 8 photos. Panorama factory takes
perhaps twice as long, and even slower when I use it to correct for
image distortion. However, the results are superior and worth the
wait.

I've stitched together about 30 images, consisting of 8 megapixel 24
bit BMP images using Panorama Factory without difficulties. The
result was something like a 1.5 Gigabyte file size. It also took
about an hour on my ancient PIII/1GHz. The latest version supports 64
bit processors, which may work better if your images are truely huge
and numerous or possibly hitting a 2GByte file size limit.

Sounds faster than what I am getting using 'hugin', whose optimizer only
has selections for SSE and number of CPUs; if I can figure out how to get
it to 'nudge' the joins instead of blending, I would expect that it would
work faster.

Dunno. I don't think that blending is the problem. When I splice two
JPG's together, I usually let the program do the blending and
straightening. When done, I convert it to 1bpp or more commonly 4bpp
to improve the contrast using Irfanview. The conversion is almost
instantaneous.

If speed is the major problem, perhaps adding some RAM to your
PIII/700 would help. Image editing software, including stitching,
does take quite a bit of RAM for array and scratch space. For XP SP3,
I suggest 1GB as a minimum.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

msg wrote:

I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

Michael


I use the Paper Port software that came with my Visioneer 4400
scanner to scan and straighten each page, then crop them in paint. Then
I use paint to piece them together. A 11" * 17" schematic takes less
than five minutes to crop, combine and save on a 633 MHz computer with
256 MB of RAM, and running ME. It was sitting around for a while, not
being used, so I cleaned it up and I am building a custom workstation to
do graphics work. I can scan and combine two pages in five to ten
minutes this way on that old computer.

There are some 'Scan to CAD' programs, but they are out of my budget.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

In message , Jeff Liebermann
writes
On Tue, 26 May 2009 02:53:06 -0500, msg wrote:

Have you used any of them to stitch 1bpp scans of schematics?

No. The problem is that I have access to a nifty overpriced Canon
document scanner and overpriced software that scans directly to PDF.
It also has a reader, which makes the resultant text indexable. The
problem is that it doesn't have a stitching feature for the
schematics. There is software available that will stitch PDF files,
but I've never bothered to try any. In the distant past, I did stitch
some JPG schematic scans with Irfanview, but the resultant distortion
at the seams was deemed unacceptable. Irfanview wasn't really
designed to do stitching anyway. No clue on the MS installer.

I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

Well, a typical 'large' collection for me would be eight 1600dpi 8.5x11
1bpp scans; I imagine that with a simple photo editor, I would work with
two at a time.

No. I would work with all 8 images at the same time. Canon
PhotoStitch is typical. I line up the images in the order in which I
want them stitched. I then define the borders if necessary. Punch
"run" and wait a while. My guess(tm) is that Canon PhotoStitch would
take about 10 minutes max to do your 8 photos. Panorama factory takes
perhaps twice as long, and even slower when I use it to correct for
image distortion. However, the results are superior and worth the
wait.

I've stitched together about 30 images, consisting of 8 megapixel 24
bit BMP images using Panorama Factory without difficulties. The
result was something like a 1.5 Gigabyte file size. It also took
about an hour on my ancient PIII/1GHz. The latest version supports 64
bit processors, which may work better if your images are truely huge
and numerous or possibly hitting a 2GByte file size limit.

Sounds faster than what I am getting using 'hugin', whose optimizer only
has selections for SSE and number of CPUs; if I can figure out how to get
it to 'nudge' the joins instead of blending, I would expect that it would
work faster.

Dunno. I don't think that blending is the problem. When I splice two
JPG's together, I usually let the program do the blending and
straightening. When done, I convert it to 1bpp or more commonly 4bpp
to improve the contrast using Irfanview. The conversion is almost
instantaneous.

If speed is the major problem, perhaps adding some RAM to your
PIII/700 would help. Image editing software, including stitching,
does take quite a bit of RAM for array and scratch space. For XP SP3,
I suggest 1GB as a minimum.

For what it's worth. I use Autostich for my photographs. It's really
very good. It's freeware, but expires after about 9 months (seems to
vary a lot), and has to be re-downloaded and re-installed. However, I
haven't really tried it for diagrams.
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote in message
...
In message , Jeff Liebermann
writes
On Tue, 26 May 2009 02:53:06 -0500, msg wrote:

Have you used any of them to stitch 1bpp scans of schematics?

No. The problem is that I have access to a nifty overpriced Canon
document scanner and overpriced software that scans directly to PDF.
It also has a reader, which makes the resultant text indexable. The
problem is that it doesn't have a stitching feature for the
schematics. There is software available that will stitch PDF files,
but I've never bothered to try any. In the distant past, I did stitch
some JPG schematic scans with Irfanview, but the resultant distortion
at the seams was deemed unacceptable. Irfanview wasn't really
designed to do stitching anyway. No clue on the MS installer.

I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

Well, a typical 'large' collection for me would be eight 1600dpi 8.5x11
1bpp scans; I imagine that with a simple photo editor, I would work with
two at a time.

No. I would work with all 8 images at the same time. Canon
PhotoStitch is typical. I line up the images in the order in which I
want them stitched. I then define the borders if necessary. Punch
"run" and wait a while. My guess(tm) is that Canon PhotoStitch would
take about 10 minutes max to do your 8 photos. Panorama factory takes
perhaps twice as long, and even slower when I use it to correct for
image distortion. However, the results are superior and worth the
wait.

I've stitched together about 30 images, consisting of 8 megapixel 24
bit BMP images using Panorama Factory without difficulties. The
result was something like a 1.5 Gigabyte file size. It also took
about an hour on my ancient PIII/1GHz. The latest version supports 64
bit processors, which may work better if your images are truely huge
and numerous or possibly hitting a 2GByte file size limit.

Sounds faster than what I am getting using 'hugin', whose optimizer only
has selections for SSE and number of CPUs; if I can figure out how to
get
it to 'nudge' the joins instead of blending, I would expect that it
would
work faster.

Dunno. I don't think that blending is the problem. When I splice two
JPG's together, I usually let the program do the blending and
straightening. When done, I convert it to 1bpp or more commonly 4bpp
to improve the contrast using Irfanview. The conversion is almost
instantaneous.

If speed is the major problem, perhaps adding some RAM to your
PIII/700 would help. Image editing software, including stitching,
does take quite a bit of RAM for array and scratch space. For XP SP3,
I suggest 1GB as a minimum.

For what it's worth. I use Autostich for my photographs. It's really
very good. It's freeware, but expires after about 9 months (seems to
vary a lot), and has to be re-downloaded and re-installed. However, I
haven't really tried it for diagrams.
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html
--
Ian


Isn't it much easier setting your system clock back a year before opening
the app and then resetting the clock, after opening it (lest you forget to
reset it)

In message , N_Cook
writes
Ian Jackson wrote in message
...


For what it's worth. I use Autostich for my photographs. It's really
very good. It's freeware, but expires after about 9 months (seems to
vary a lot), and has to be re-downloaded and re-installed. However, I
haven't really tried it for diagrams.
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html
--
Ian


Isn't it much easier setting your system clock back a year before opening
the app and then resetting the clock, after opening it (lest you forget to
reset it)

In one word, "No".
There's absolutely no problem having to 'renew' Autostitch once in a
blue moon. Once done, it's good for another 6 to 12 months (maybe more).

I said that I hadn't used it for diagrams. I now recall that I did try
it once. It did work reasonably well for a first attempt, but didn't
persist with it.
--
Ian

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

msg wrote:

I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

Michael



I use the Paper Port software that came with my Visioneer 4400
scanner to scan and straighten each page,

This must be the key to 'nudging' them together in Paint; how does
this software straighten? Automatically?, selectable rotations? Does
the rotation appear in real time or do you enter a guestimate value?

I pretty much gave up trying to straighten in Irfanview when the
schematic is very cluttered, as it is quite unlikely that I will
match details when abutting two images thus straightened and cropped.

'hugin' does a good job but it is a real chore to set up and takes
a _long_ time to process.

then crop them in paint. Then
I use paint to piece them together.

Do you copy each image to the clipboard and then paste it into the
base image in Paint?

A 11" * 17" schematic takes less
than five minutes to crop, combine and save on a 633 MHz computer with
256 MB of RAM, and running ME. It was sitting around for a while, not
being used, so I cleaned it up and I am building a custom workstation to
do graphics work. I can scan and combine two pages in five to ten
minutes this way on that old computer.

I would appreciate reading more details of your procedure.

Michael

msg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

msg wrote:

I would appreciate some suggestions for stitching together scanned
sections of large format diagrams (schematics); photo editors such
as Photoshop or the GIMP require a lot of resources, are often
sluggish (if you don't have very fast hardware) and require a lot
of tedious manipulation to achieve the result. There are photographic
panorama stitching tools but these too may have problems with a large
number of high-resolution scan sections on slower hardware. Microsoft
Photo Editor 3.0 had features that made the task quite simple, but
it is difficult to install as a stand-alone app without a version
of Office.

What are folks using for a simple solution to this task (other than
purchasing an expensive large-format scanner)?

Michael



I use the Paper Port software that came with my Visioneer 4400
scanner to scan and straighten each page,

This must be the key to 'nudging' them together in Paint; how does
this software straighten? Automatically?, selectable rotations? Does
the rotation appear in real time or do you enter a guestimate value?


You pick one point and drag the line across to another point, as far
apart as possible. I usually straighten on the horizontal, then crop
the vertical edges where the two scans overlap. By careful selection,
it is seamless.

Paperport also allows you to despeckle a scan with a couple clicks.
That will remove the single black dots. The eraser will remove stains
and hand written notes, if needed.


I pretty much gave up trying to straighten in Irfanview when the
schematic is very cluttered, as it is quite unlikely that I will
match details when abutting two images thus straightened and cropped.

'hugin' does a good job but it is a real chore to set up and takes
a _long_ time to process.

then crop them in paint. Then
I use paint to piece them together.

Do you copy each image to the clipboard and then paste it into the
base image in Paint?


Yes. I process each page and save them, then open and rename the
first page to the final document name.

Then I open each additional part and line them up in the 400% or 800%
zoom. As soon as you line them up, you can save them. No waiting for
the software to 'stitch' the segments.


A 11" * 17" schematic takes less
than five minutes to crop, combine and save on a 633 MHz computer with
256 MB of RAM, and running ME. It was sitting around for a while, not
being used, so I cleaned it up and I am building a custom workstation to
do graphics work. I can scan and combine two pages in five to ten
minutes this way on that old computer.

I would appreciate reading more details of your procedure.

I gave a brief rundown, above. You can practice with a single page
scan by cropping it into two overlapping sections, then piece it back
together. Feel free to ask more questions, if you need to.

paperport has a decent scan to text converter, for converting parts
list, and any instructions into plain text. The photo manipulation
tools are easy to use, and have helped me save some pretty bad photos.
One of these days I need to buy the full version and see what else it
can do.

You can save the document in several different forms, or import them
into their file format, which makes it easy to create a complete manual
or book.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

msg wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I have no idea what you mean by "large" number of "high-resolution"
images. Some numbers would be nice.

Well, a typical 'large' collection for me would be eight 1600dpi 8.5x11
1bpp scans; I imagine that with a simple photo editor, I would work with
two at a time.

1600DPI is very high resolution. Have you tried 300DPI? That would
greatly reduce your image size, file size, & would greatly speed up your
editing.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------