On Feb 23, 9:04*pm, "Michael Kennedy"
wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in ...



In article
,
* wrote:
Hard work? *If these videos are worth keeping, they're worth the 2
hours (mostly unattended) to capture to a PC, 5 minutes to cue them
all up in a conversion application for the target output (if the
machine wasn't fast enough to do this in realtime, which modern dual +
core processors easily are, and another few minutes to put onto DVD or
whatever.

What's the alternative? *You feel magnetic tape won't degrade sitting
around for years longer?

My experience says magnetic tape has rather a longer life than home burned
DVDs, etc. I reckon you're lucky if they last 10 years without developing
errors.

Quite a problem, archiving. So far properly stored film seems to have the
longest life.

My thoughts exactly on the DVD vs VHS debate. Sure the qulaity isn't there,
but it is passable for watching. Its definately better than youtube.

Are you comparing Apples:Apples? Watching VHS on a high-res computer
monitor or on a low-res. CRT TV? What I've seen of VHS input on a
computer monitor looked terrible, while computer output to a TV looked
pretty good even if it's utube. VHS is passable, but barely once you
get used to better.

In article
,
wrote:
My experience says magnetic tape has rather a longer life than home
burned DVDs, etc. I reckon you're lucky if they last 10 years without
developing errors.

Quite a problem, archiving. So far properly stored film seems to have
the longest life.

Magnetic tape, stored in a good environment, does have good lifespan.

Depends on what you consider a good lifetime. My earliest VHS tapes became
unusable some time ago due to oxide shedding. At I suppose about 20 years
old. Same sort of thing applies to early pro formats - assuming you can
find a working machine to play them on.

Even so, a lot of tapes are probably several years old at this point
so the remaining alternative is duping back to tape again, or another
method. We can't really know if today's DVDs will last 10 years or
not, since they've not been around 10 years and accelerated testing
tends to use perfect samples and suggests far longer.

Not my experience with home burned CDs. Have some giving problems at less
than 10 years old which was a guess figure. Commercial ones use different
media.

I would tend to trust data on a slow burnt DVD more than a CDR since
they are encased on both sides, providing they're not set in strong
sunlight a long time. Either way, a good strategy would be to make two
copies, each on different lot, different brand of media.

Trouble is you'll not know which make is best until after the problems
start.

Another option these days might be flash storage. Considering the low
resolution of VHS, videos with typical compression shouldn't be very
large, so $1/GB flash prices we're starting to see these days could
allow for reliable storage at reasonable cost (if it's worth backing
up at all, anything that can't be had on a retail DVD). In 10 years
when the flash storage retention rating has expired, flash memory will
be that much cheaper per GB.

Maybe. But anything which requires such frequent backing up isn't really
much use for archiving.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...
On Feb 23, 1:18*pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...



In article , krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
, says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? *The only people who are likely to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! *My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.



I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. *1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. Understand now?

what a maroon

"krw" wrote in message
t...
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...
On Feb 23, 1:18 pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...



In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
,
says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast
these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those
VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are
a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June
12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new
digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? The only people who are likely
to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that
it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a
large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let
this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's
time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.



I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. 1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. Understand now?

what a maroon



Its usenet.. Someone is always going to complain about what you say. Just
don't worry about it.

In article ,
says...
"krw" wrote in message
t...
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...
On Feb 23, 1:18 pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...



In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
,
says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast
these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those
VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are
a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June
12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new
digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? The only people who are likely
to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that
it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a
large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let
this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's
time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.



I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. 1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. Understand now?

what a maroon



Its usenet.. Someone is always going to complain about what you say. Just
don't worry about it.

Not worried at all, though true 'nuff. ...and they tend to be as
illiterate as "email".

On Feb 24, 2:00*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
c0f1b61b-8ad7-489a-97c5-
,
* wrote:

My experience says magnetic tape has rather a longer life than
home
burned DVDs, etc. I reckon you're lucky if they last 10 years
without
developing errors.

Quite a problem, archiving. So far properly stored film seems
to have
the longest life.
Magnetic tape, stored in a good environment, does have good
lifespan.

Depends on what you consider a good lifetime. My earliest VHS tapes
became
unusable some time ago due to oxide shedding. At I suppose about 20
years
old. Same sort of thing applies to early pro formats - assuming you
can
find a working machine to play them on.

The oldest 2" quad broadcast we've played in the last 3 years was from
1969. Most reels over 30 years old require a trip through the
dehydrator of 13 hours at 135 F

Even so, a lot of tapes are probably several years old at this
point
so the remaining alternative is duping back to tape again, or
another
method. *We can't really know if today's DVDs will last 10 years
or
not, since they've not been around 10 years and accelerated
testing
tends to use perfect samples and suggests far longer.

Not my experience with home burned CDs. Have some giving problems
at less
than 10 years old which was a guess figure. Commercial ones use
different
media. *

I have some 10 year old CD recordables that played fine last month - I
was a little surprised.

I would tend to trust data on a slow burnt DVD more than a CDR
since
they are encased on both sides, providing they're not set in
strong
sunlight a long time. *Either way, a good strategy would be to
make two
copies, each on different lot, different brand of media.

My 10 year old CDs were burned at 2X as that was all I had at the
time.

Trouble is you'll not know which make is best until after the
problems
start.

Another option these days might be flash storage. *Considering
the low
resolution of VHS, videos with typical compression shouldn't be
very
large, so $1/GB flash prices we're starting to see these days
could
allow for reliable storage at reasonable cost (if it's worth
backing
up at all, anything that can't be had on a retail DVD). *In 10
years
when the flash storage retention rating has expired, flash memory
will
be that much cheaper per GB.

Maybe. But anything which requires such frequent backing up isn't
really
much use for archiving.


I trust flash storage least of all but I have no hard data to support
my bias.

Archiving digital is NOT a trivial problem.

G²

In article , wrote:
On Feb 24, 2:00=A0am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
c0f1b61b-8ad7-489a-97c5-
,
=A0 wrote:

My experience says magnetic tape has rather a longer life than
home
burned DVDs, etc. I reckon you're lucky if they last 10 years
without
developing errors.

Quite a problem, archiving. So far properly stored film seems
to have
the longest life.
Magnetic tape, stored in a good environment, does have good
lifespan.

Depends on what you consider a good lifetime. My earliest VHS tapes
became
unusable some time ago due to oxide shedding. At I suppose about 20
years
old. Same sort of thing applies to early pro formats - assuming you
can
find a working machine to play them on.

The oldest 2" quad broadcast we've played in the last 3 years was from
1969. Most reels over 30 years old require a trip through the
dehydrator of 13 hours at 135 F

Even so, a lot of tapes are probably several years old at this
point
so the remaining alternative is duping back to tape again, or
another
method. =A0We can't really know if today's DVDs will last 10 years
or
not, since they've not been around 10 years and accelerated
testing
tends to use perfect samples and suggests far longer.

Not my experience with home burned CDs. Have some giving problems
at less
than 10 years old which was a guess figure. Commercial ones use
different
media. =A0

I have some 10 year old CD recordables that played fine last month - I
was a little surprised.

I would tend to trust data on a slow burnt DVD more than a CDR
since
they are encased on both sides, providing they're not set in
strong
sunlight a long time. =A0Either way, a good strategy would be to
make two
copies, each on different lot, different brand of media.

My 10 year old CDs were burned at 2X as that was all I had at the
time.

Trouble is you'll not know which make is best until after the
problems
start.

Another option these days might be flash storage. =A0Considering
the low
resolution of VHS, videos with typical compression shouldn't be
very
large, so $1/GB flash prices we're starting to see these days
could
allow for reliable storage at reasonable cost (if it's worth
backing
up at all, anything that can't be had on a retail DVD). =A0In 10
years
when the flash storage retention rating has expired, flash memory
will
be that much cheaper per GB.

Maybe. But anything which requires such frequent backing up isn't
really
much use for archiving.


I trust flash storage least of all but I have no hard data to support
my bias.

Archiving digital is NOT a trivial problem.

G=B2

They archieved the first moon walk in digital format, but erased the tape.
That does not hold up well at all..
Actually somebody found an analog real time recording of that, but
I have not heard if they were able to play the tape back.

I know many of the old floppies do not work any more. I have tons I need to throw
away. I still get request to archieve the real big floppies and Beta tapes.

greg

In article , UCLAN wrote:
Ron wrote:

$60 - $75. But, wouldn't that be best put towards a DVR purchase?

Like someone else said here, I don't particularly care for DVRs
either. Maybe I'm just an old fart who doesn't like change-- and in
fact, I knew there was going to be nothing that I would like about the
21st century; pity that I was right about that. :-)

Nothing like having a DVR erase or "lose" a recording before you have a
chance to view it. Never happens with my VCRs.
Never happened with my DirecTV Tivo units!

In article , Roger Blake wrote:
On 2009-02-23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Of course with good housekeeping those can be minimised - but a PVR does
all that for you.

Don't need a "PVR," "DVR," or whatever other name you want to give those
useless gadgets. VCRs have meet my needs perfectly for decades and I see no
reason to change.

Hows that horse and buggy working out fur ya????

In article , (GMAN) wrote:
In article , Roger Blake
wrote:
On 2009-02-23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Of course with good housekeeping those can be minimised - but a PVR does
all that for you.

Don't need a "PVR," "DVR," or whatever other name you want to give those
useless gadgets. VCRs have meet my needs perfectly for decades and I see no
reason to change.

Hows that horse and buggy working out fur ya????

If nothing else a VCR can be used as an automatic volume control for audio.
Great for TV. Feed it in, and take it out while in rec mode,.
I remember the first HI FI VCR I had with a 100 buttons, sliders. You could
even take off the compression. I had started recording just audio on it.
I still have a bunch of early 80's HBO concerts on tape. Including the Who's
last performance. That was the early 80's i said.

greg

On Feb 24, 9:10*am, krw wrote:
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...



On Feb 23, 1:18*pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article , krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
, says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? *The only people who are likely to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! *My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.

I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. *1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. *What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). *If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. *Understand now?

what a maroon

I understood fine, you have an illogical stance that rewatching the
same movies is more important than it really is, and that because you
bought one device that won't dupe, that is some kind of argument
against using a different device that can. Name-calling at that point
was irony.

In article e24aee15-9ab9-4001-b390-
,
says...
On Feb 24, 9:10*am, krw wrote:
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...



On Feb 23, 1:18*pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article , krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
, says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? *The only people who are likely to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! *My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.

I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. *1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD..
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. *What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). *If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. *Understand now?

what a maroon

I understood fine,

Then the only possible conclusion is that you're stupid.

you have an illogical stance that rewatching the
same movies is more important than it really is, and that because you
bought one device that won't dupe, that is some kind of argument
against using a different device that can.

You really are illiterate. I said no such thing.

Name-calling at that point was irony.

No, it's called "honesty". Not only are you illiterate, you really
*are* stupid.

On Feb 24, 4:46*pm, krw wrote:
In article e24aee15-9ab9-4001-b390-
,
says...



On Feb 24, 9:10*am, krw wrote:
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...

On Feb 23, 1:18*pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article , krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
, says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? *The only people who are likely to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! *My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.

I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD..

Learn to read. *1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. *What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). *If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. *Understand now?

what a maroon

I understood fine,

Then the only possible conclusion is that you're stupid.

you have an illogical stance that rewatching the
same movies is more important than it really is, and that because you
bought one device that won't dupe, that is some kind of argument
against using a different device that can.

You really are illiterate. *I said no such thing.

*Name-calling at that point was irony.

No, it's called "honesty". *Not only are you illiterate, you really
*are* stupid.

It's called honesty if anyone asked for your opinion. I'm doubting
that happens often.

TV. Besides, where will you get tapes? They're going away fast.

A nasty rumor only. I can get tapes easily in 8 hour three packs and
single six hour tapes for $1.99 apiece at Walgreens as well as other
stores like Safeway and Target; there never seems to be any shortage.
I suppose that IF there does come a day that VHS tapes become as
extinct as the dinosaurs and the dodo bird, *then* I'll switch to
something else, but not until that day comes. :-)

Ron

In article 8ca7aa05-40f0-4ec6-81d4-
,
says...
On Feb 24, 4:46*pm, krw wrote:
In article e24aee15-9ab9-4001-b390-
,
says...



On Feb 24, 9:10*am, krw wrote:
In article 7f182c31-06db-46f1-8302-
,
says...

On Feb 23, 1:18*pm, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article , krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article ,
says...
In article , krw
wrote:
In article fc5e159b-a167-4b49-8205-97b841823391
, says...=20
On Feb 21, 6:41=A0am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days,
but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron
=20
Who has bought a VCR recently? *The only people who are likely to have
a working vcr today are those who so infrequently use it that it won't
be a great loss.

I have, within the last year.

Granted, I've ignored those who had one fail and have a large/
worthwhile library of existing VHS tapes recorded, but let this be a
wakeup call, that when we are forced to change tech, it's time to make
backups onto the more current media.

How?
=20

VHS to DVD copy machine ??

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...57304&findingM...

Copy protection?

On recorded tapes ???

Absolutely! *My DVDR refuses to copy prerecorded tapes.

I guess it records blank tapes !

Good grief.

I said recorded. Not pre recorded.

Learn to read.

Who needs to record a bought movie. Get the high resolution DVD.

Learn to read. *1) Not all titles have been made available on DVD.
2) Why should I (have to) buy another copy of what I already have a
license for? 2a) I would, but see 1).

Since movies aren't a life necessity,

Apparently too late for this advice but, don't be an ass.

it's hardly important whether
every last one is available on DVD. *What if you dupe only those that
aren't available on DVD yourself, or just accept that you don't really
need a library of every movie you've already seen once.

If I bought the movie I'm intending to watch it more than once (and
have most likely already seen it). *If you could read you'd have
already understood that I BOUGHT THE VCR BECAUSE WE HAVE MOVIES
THAT WE DO WATCH, MANY TIMES, AND THEY CANNOT BE COPIED TO DVD WITH
OUR DVD RECORDER. *Understand now?

what a maroon

I understood fine,

Then the only possible conclusion is that you're stupid.

you have an illogical stance that rewatching the
same movies is more important than it really is, and that because you
bought one device that won't dupe, that is some kind of argument
against using a different device that can.

You really are illiterate. *I said no such thing.

*Name-calling at that point was irony.

No, it's called "honesty". *Not only are you illiterate, you really
*are* stupid.

It's called honesty if anyone asked for your opinion. I'm doubting
that happens often.

What a dumb **** you are. This is a public forum. By the way,
*YOU* replied to my post.

Your mother must be embarrassed.

In article , Ron wrote:

TV. Besides, where will you get tapes? They're going away fast.

A nasty rumor only. I can get tapes easily in 8 hour three packs and
single six hour tapes for $1.99 apiece at Walgreens as well as other
stores like Safeway and Target; there never seems to be any shortage.
I suppose that IF there does come a day that VHS tapes become as
extinct as the dinosaurs and the dodo bird, *then* I'll switch to
something else, but not until that day comes. :-)

I started recording movies on TV years ago and I don't think I ever
rewatched any. I think I have a copy of a half hour HBO cartoon special
my neighbor made in his basement. I do need to check that out. Just
thought of it.

greg

GregS wrote:
In article , Ron wrote:

TV. Besides, where will you get tapes? They're going away fast.

A nasty rumor only. I can get tapes easily in 8 hour three packs and
single six hour tapes for $1.99 apiece at Walgreens as well as other
stores like Safeway and Target; there never seems to be any shortage.
I suppose that IF there does come a day that VHS tapes become as
extinct as the dinosaurs and the dodo bird, *then* I'll switch to
something else, but not until that day comes. :-)

I started recording movies on TV years ago and I don't think I ever
rewatched any. I think I have a copy of a half hour HBO cartoon special
my neighbor made in his basement. I do need to check that out. Just
thought of it.

greg


if you are a rabid videophile like me, the problem is that eventually
have more tapes than you have time to look at all of them again. If
they get labeled, then no problemo when you want to find something.
But too many were hastily recorded and not labeled, or worse: the glue
on the label evaporated and the label fell off never to be found
again-- then things get hairy. Now where did I put that Doctor Who
movie... ;-(

Ron

On Feb 21, 6:41 am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days, but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron

Standard VCRs with NTSC tuners will work just fine with digital
signals. I have my Panasonic PV-V4022 VCR connected to Time-Warner
cable (analog expanded basic); no cable box. It works just as well as
it always has; further, I am expecting it will work without hitches
after 06.12 as well. My RCA XL100 CTC185 19" TV is also connected to
cable and also operates flawlessly. Time Warner Cable has informed its
subscribers many times that if your TVs, VCRs, etc. are connected to
their cable service, there is absolutely nothing to do or to be
concerned about when 06.12 rolls around; your equipment will work just
as it does now, even when all TV is digital. The reason your sets will
work on cable is that the cable operator will convert the ATSC digital
signals to NTSC if necessary (in a lot of cases, this will have to be
done for most sets in their service area, as most people still have
analog televisions). Time Warner Cable will handle the conversion by
means of a small box containing an ATSC-NTSC converter; at least
that's what I was told by a TW representative. I live in a 12-unit
apartment building; I wondered how the ATSC-NTSC conversion would be
done. The representative told me Time Warner will install a small box
on the roof of the building, the purpose of which will be to convert
digital (ATSC) signals on the cable to NTSC. I think the same thing
(or something similar) will be done for home connections as well.

Kind regards,

Jeff Strieble, WB8NHV
Fairport Harbor, Ohio USA

In article , " wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:41 am, Ron wrote:
I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days, but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron

Standard VCRs with NTSC tuners will work just fine with digital
signals. I have my Panasonic PV-V4022 VCR connected to Time-Warner
cable (analog expanded basic); no cable box. It works just as well as
it always has; further, I am expecting it will work without hitches
after 06.12 as well. My RCA XL100 CTC185 19" TV is also connected to
cable and also operates flawlessly. Time Warner Cable has informed its
subscribers many times that if your TVs, VCRs, etc. are connected to
their cable service, there is absolutely nothing to do or to be
concerned about when 06.12 rolls around; your equipment will work just
as it does now, even when all TV is digital. The reason your sets will
work on cable is that the cable operator will convert the ATSC digital
signals to NTSC if necessary (in a lot of cases, this will have to be
done for most sets in their service area, as most people still have
analog televisions). Time Warner Cable will handle the conversion by
means of a small box containing an ATSC-NTSC converter; at least
that's what I was told by a TW representative. I live in a 12-unit
apartment building; I wondered how the ATSC-NTSC conversion would be
done. The representative told me Time Warner will install a small box
on the roof of the building, the purpose of which will be to convert
digital (ATSC) signals on the cable to NTSC. I think the same thing
(or something similar) will be done for home connections as well.

Kind regards,

Jeff Strieble, WB8NHV
Fairport Harbor, Ohio USA

The converter box will convert digital to NTSC. It has nothing to do with the company
except being able to select a channel. It seems like most all the NTSC channels
are also in HDTV which I can get. When the conversion takes place I quess
the analog channels will disappear, but I guess the cable company could
switch those channels back to NTSC and rebroadcast them. That some
how seems SO stupid, all they should do is transmit them digitally for the NTSC
conversion. They can also send the channels over the cable in digital and the box will convert
to NTSC.

NTSC tuners receiving digital after the turnaround on the cable
without cable box, I don't think so.
Not unless they broadcast it in NTSC format over the cable.

greg

Ron wrote:

TV. Besides, where will you get tapes? They're going away fast.

A nasty rumor only. I can get tapes easily in 8 hour three packs and
single six hour tapes for $1.99 apiece at Walgreens as well as other
stores like Safeway and Target; there never seems to be any shortage.
I suppose that IF there does come a day that VHS tapes become as
extinct as the dinosaurs and the dodo bird, *then* I'll switch to
something else, but not until that day comes. :-)

VHS tapes - and SVHS for that matter - are readily available in several
lengths and formulas from quite a few online vendors. Anything from Sony
Broadcast Quality to el-cheapo bulk.

wrote:

I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days, but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron

Standard VCRs with NTSC tuners will work just fine with digital
signals.

WHY are some still confused?

The transition from analog to digital - mandated by Congress and the FCC -
has NOTHING to due with cable. Your VCR still works because it is still
receiving ANALOG signals, not digital. Even if your cable company goes
100% digital, the RF/composite/S-video outputs of the STB are all ANALOG.
And with an optional Terapix box, all digital cable channels are converted
back to analog to satisfy those that don't want a STB.

The analog-digital transition mandate is ONLY for OTA transmissions.

In article , UCLAN wrote:
wrote:

I rather like the new digital pictures being broadcast these days, but
I have to wonder what is going to happen with all of those VCRs that
people love to set for delayed programming--- andthere are a lot of
folks who do tape shows while away or at work-- when June 12 rolls
around and VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

Ron

Standard VCRs with NTSC tuners will work just fine with digital
signals.

WHY are some still confused?

The transition from analog to digital - mandated by Congress and the FCC -
has NOTHING to due with cable. Your VCR still works because it is still
receiving ANALOG signals, not digital. Even if your cable company goes
100% digital, the RF/composite/S-video outputs of the STB are all ANALOG.
And with an optional Terapix box, all digital cable channels are converted
back to analog to satisfy those that don't want a STB.

The analog-digital transition mandate is ONLY for OTA transmissions.

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV capable.
None have a digital output.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the digital
channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and only leave digital HDTV ???

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV capable.
None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the digital
channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and only leave digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

In article , UCLAN wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV
capable.
None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

I think there is a DVI ont the HD box.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the digital
channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and only leave
digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

Digital with standard lines/frequency.

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

Right now I have the RGB going to my new LCD HDTV works fine in HD mode.
If I connectec video to my old 36 inch CRT Toshiba, its
not going to recognize the new formats.

greg

GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV
capable. None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

I think there is a DVI ont the HD box.

There ya go! *That's* a digital output.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the
digital channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and
only leave digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

Digital with standard lines/frequency.

Sometimes, you're nonsensical. What does "...digital channels will go off the
air with NTSC bandwidth specs" mean? Digital has nothing to do with NTSC. And
"Digital with standard lines/frequency" ?? All NA video transmissions, be it
NTSC, ATSC SD, or ATSC HD are modulated into the same 6 MHz bandwidth. HD
video uses as high as 18.5 Mbps data rate, while SD typically is around
1-2 Mbps. Broadcasters are allowed up to 19.39 Mbps for their 8VSB modulated
signals. Some use the entire bandwidth (18.5 Mbps of it) for their HD channel,
while others use less for their HD channel, but add one or more SD channels.

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about antenna
in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

Right now I have the RGB going to my new LCD HDTV works fine in HD mode. If
I connectec video to my old 36 inch CRT Toshiba, its not going to recognize
the new formats.

What "formats" ?? If you feed a digital signal into an analog monitor, it
won't tune the digital signal at all.

In article , UCLAN wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV
capable. None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

I think there is a DVI ont the HD box.

There ya go! *That's* a digital output.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the
digital channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and
only leave digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

Digital with standard lines/frequency.

Sometimes, you're nonsensical. What does "...digital channels will go off the
air with NTSC bandwidth specs" mean? Digital has nothing to do with NTSC. And
"Digital with standard lines/frequency" ?? All NA video transmissions, be it
NTSC, ATSC SD, or ATSC HD are modulated into the same 6 MHz bandwidth. HD
video uses as high as 18.5 Mbps data rate, while SD typically is around
1-2 Mbps. Broadcasters are allowed up to 19.39 Mbps for their 8VSB modulated
signals. Some use the entire bandwidth (18.5 Mbps of it) for their HD channel,
while others use less for their HD channel, but add one or more SD channels.


Digital =SD=NTSC= specs for lines vertical horzontal...
Standard Definition = NTSC or SD




If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about antenna
in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

Right now I have the RGB going to my new LCD HDTV works fine in HD mode. If
I connectec video to my old 36 inch CRT Toshiba, its not going to recognize
the new formats.

What "formats" ?? If you feed a digital signal into an analog monitor, it
won't tune the digital signal at all.


NO NO

I want to feed a high quality video, made from an HDTV broadcast, with higher specs than NTSC
"broadcast" into my Toshiba which can decifer at least 600-700 lines of video regardless of the NTSC
specs.

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article , UCLAN
wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV
capable. None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

I think there is a DVI ont the HD box.

There ya go! *That's* a digital output.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the
digital channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and
only leave digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

Digital with standard lines/frequency.

Sometimes, you're nonsensical. What does "...digital channels will go off the
air with NTSC bandwidth specs" mean? Digital has nothing to do with NTSC. And
"Digital with standard lines/frequency" ?? All NA video transmissions, be it
NTSC, ATSC SD, or ATSC HD are modulated into the same 6 MHz bandwidth. HD
video uses as high as 18.5 Mbps data rate, while SD typically is around
1-2 Mbps. Broadcasters are allowed up to 19.39 Mbps for their 8VSB modulated
signals. Some use the entire bandwidth (18.5 Mbps of it) for their HD channel,
while others use less for their HD channel, but add one or more SD channels.


Digital =SD=NTSC= specs for lines vertical horzontal...
Standard Definition = NTSC or SD




If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about antenna
in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

Right now I have the RGB going to my new LCD HDTV works fine in HD mode. If
I connectec video to my old 36 inch CRT Toshiba, its not going to recognize
the new formats.

What "formats" ?? If you feed a digital signal into an analog monitor, it
won't tune the digital signal at all.


NO NO

I want to feed a high quality video, made from an HDTV broadcast, with higher
specs than NTSC
"broadcast" into my Toshiba which can decifer at least 600-700 lines of video
regardless of the NTSC
specs.


And how is my Toshiba non HDTV going to interupt a different aspect ratio fed out of Video
out, just as its doing from video out RGB into my HDTV.

greg

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article ,
(GregS) wrote:
In article , UCLAN
wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV
capable. None have a digital output.

I have yet to see a cable HDTV STB that didn't have either a DVI or HDMI
output. Model?

I think there is a DVI ont the HD box.

There ya go! *That's* a digital output.

The idea is also to have all HDTV eventually. I guess one day the
digital channels will go off the air with NTSC bandwidth specs. and
only leave digital HDTV ???

Huh? I don't comprehend.

Digital with standard lines/frequency.

Sometimes, you're nonsensical. What does "...digital channels will go off the
air with NTSC bandwidth specs" mean? Digital has nothing to do with NTSC. And
"Digital with standard lines/frequency" ?? All NA video transmissions, be it
NTSC, ATSC SD, or ATSC HD are modulated into the same 6 MHz bandwidth. HD
video uses as high as 18.5 Mbps data rate, while SD typically is around
1-2 Mbps. Broadcasters are allowed up to 19.39 Mbps for their 8VSB modulated
signals. Some use the entire bandwidth (18.5 Mbps of it) for their HD
channel,
while others use less for their HD channel, but add one or more SD channels.


Digital =SD=NTSC= specs for lines vertical horzontal...
Standard Definition = NTSC or SD




If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about antenna
in ??

"Video in" from a cable box is analog, so it will be OK. "Antenna in" is
also analog if coming from your cable box, or a digital-analog converter
for your antenna.

Right now I have the RGB going to my new LCD HDTV works fine in HD mode. If
I connectec video to my old 36 inch CRT Toshiba, its not going to recognize
the new formats.

What "formats" ?? If you feed a digital signal into an analog monitor, it
won't tune the digital signal at all.


NO NO

I want to feed a high quality video, made from an HDTV broadcast, with higher
specs than NTSC
"broadcast" into my Toshiba which can decifer at least 600-700 lines of video
regardless of the NTSC
specs.


And how is my Toshiba non HDTV going to interupt a different aspect ratio fed
out of Video
out, just as its doing from video out RGB into my HDTV.

greg

I am guessing my other old Comcast box does not have digital out. Its a digital
Comcast cable box. It picks up SD digital channels and outputs them
to NTSC video out.

SD is really not standard definition, only according to the # of lines
displayed on the Tv and bandwidth. The truth of the matter, compressed
digital looks a lot worse than old analog. Its crap.
It does look better on the cable than what I have seen on Direct TV.
Compression is up.

greg

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article ,
(GregS) wrote:
In article ,
(GregS) wrote:
In article , UCLAN
wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV


I am guessing my other old Comcast box does not have digital out. Its a digital
Comcast cable box. It picks up SD digital channels and outputs them
to NTSC video out.

SD is really not standard definition, only according to the # of lines
displayed on the Tv and bandwidth. The truth of the matter, compressed
digital looks a lot worse than old analog. Its crap.
It does look better on the cable than what I have seen on Direct TV.
Compression is up.

greg


You cannot see much of any good analog broadcasting these days
cause most of the analog signals are digitally processed into an artifacted
mess.

greg

GregS wrote:

In article , (GregS) wrote:

In article ,
(GregS) wrote:

In article ,
(GregS) wrote:

In article , UCLAN
wrote:

GregS wrote:

I'll leave you alone now. You seem to be conversing with yourself just fine,
although you seem somewhat confused, ill-informed, and incoherent.

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

Channel 6 here is crazy, broadcasting analog some days and
broadcasting digital other days-- while broadcasting analog at night--
every night. Geez, it's enough to make somebody really go off the deep
end!

But to answer your question, a digital signal going into an old TV or
VCR tuner gets you either a blank picture-- a nice blue screen if
you're lucky-- or more likely a lot of snow and static; but no picture
whatsoever. You either need a converter box or cable.

Ron

On Feb 27, 12:55*pm, (GregS) wrote:
In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article ,
(GregS) wrote:
In article ,
(GregS) wrote:
In article , UCLAN
wrote:
GregS wrote:

Its a fact both my cable boxes, are both digital, but only one is HDTV

I am guessing my other old Comcast box does not have digital out. Its a digital
Comcast cable box. It picks up SD digital channels and outputs them
to NTSC video out.

SD is really not standard definition, only according to the # of lines
displayed on the Tv and bandwidth. The truth of the matter, compressed
digital looks a lot worse than old analog. Its crap.
It does look better on the cable than what I have seen on Direct TV.
Compression is up.

greg

You cannot see much of any good analog broadcasting these days
cause most of the analog signals are digitally processed *into an artifacted
mess.

greg

You haven't seen analog broadcasts in over 20 years - since the last
old quad machines were retired. Every broadcast tape machine built
since 1976 uses digital time base correctors. I've worked in broadcast
since '76 and while analog can be outstanding when used by qualified
skilled operators, digital is much more tolerant of idiot operators -
though they can still mess it up but it's harder.

G²

In article , Ron wrote:

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

Channel 6 here is crazy, broadcasting analog some days and
broadcasting digital other days-- while broadcasting analog at night--
every night. Geez, it's enough to make somebody really go off the deep
end!

But to answer your question, a digital signal going into an old TV or
VCR tuner gets you either a blank picture-- a nice blue screen if
you're lucky-- or more likely a lot of snow and static; but no picture
whatsoever. You either need a converter box or cable.


Thanks for the answer. I guess I just have to hook er up and see.
I know several years ago my brother similar rear projection
set was able to get a much better picture receiving HDTV.

greg

Hi!

VCR tuners won't be able to tune into the new digital
signals?

I'd have to think that the newer DVD/VCR combinations would have ATSC
tuners onboard these days.

As for older VCRs, I've used a converter box with mine and it works
fine. The only thing I've had to watch for is the automatic four hour
power-down on the converter box--but I caught that and turned it off
ahead of time.

William

Hi!

VCRs never mangle tapes?

Keeping them in good repair helps. I only ever had problems with one
tape and one machine...where the tape would tangle reliably at one
precise location on that one VCR. It never had trouble on any others.

Someone records over what you wanted to keep?

Yes, that has happened. And then I Laid Down The Law about blindly
reusing tapes. There hasn't been a repeat instance since that time.
And write protect tabs do help a little...people tend to think if
they've got to go and get some adhesive tape to cover up that little
hole.

You can't find the tape something you want is on?

I have forced myself to label all of my tapes, so I know what they
are. It's been surprisingly successful. (I'm not usually good at these
sorts of "organizational tasks".)

Of course with good housekeeping those can be minimised - but
a PVR does all that for you.

I have never tried a TiVo or similar device--the monthly fee that I
believe is required simply was not worth it to me. I have, however,
worked with various PC-based solutions and all have been far too
complicated or far less reliable than they should have been. The
latest one I tried was SnapStream Media's BeyondTV. It was very cool
in a lot of ways and positively maddening/stupidly designed in others.

So far the VCR lags behind in quality, but it's "good enough" and has
always Just Worked for the task at hand.

William

Something else I just remembered...I set up no less than seven VCRs at
differing locations to record the very end of analog TV.

(I was under the impression that the various stations would do
something interesting, as a sort of "grand finale" or just as a way of
saying goodbye to analog TV broadcasting. None did, most didn't even
bother signing off before they dropped out.)

I re-used older tapes that had been given to me, and the VCRs ranged
from 20 to 5 years old. Then I went to sleep.

Not a single one of them failed to do the job. Somehow I can't help
but think that a bunch of newer-fangled DVRs/PVRs/TiVo devices would
not have done so well.

William

In article
,
William R. Walsh wrote:
Of course with good housekeeping those can be minimised - but
a PVR does all that for you.

I have never tried a TiVo or similar device--the monthly fee that I
believe is required simply was not worth it to me. I have, however,
worked with various PC-based solutions and all have been far too
complicated or far less reliable than they should have been. The
latest one I tried was SnapStream Media's BeyondTV. It was very cool
in a lot of ways and positively maddening/stupidly designed in others.

I've got a Topfield here in the UK - no monthly rental or fee, but bought
outright. So the equivalent of a VCR. I've had it for some time - and
there are lots of cheaper ones now on the market.

I agree about PC progs for this sort of thing - they always make them far
too complicated. The Toppy is far easier to use than any VCR - and has the
beauty that anyone can write software for it, so if you don't like some
aspects of the supplied one there will probably be someone who thought the
same and has corrected it.

--
*Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mar 2, 1:14*pm, "William R. Walsh" wrote:
Something else I just remembered...I set up no less than seven VCRs
at
differing locations to record the very end of analog TV.

(I was under the impression that the various stations would do
something interesting, as a sort of "grand finale" or just as a way
of
saying goodbye to analog TV broadcasting. None did, most didn't
even
bother signing off before they dropped out.)

I re-used older tapes that had been given to me, and the VCRs
ranged
from 20 to 5 years old. Then I went to sleep.

Not a single one of them failed to do the job. Somehow I can't help
but think that a bunch of newer-fangled DVRs/PVRs/TiVo devices
would
not have done so well.

William

Having been living with 3 PC based recorders for better than 3 years,
they really aren't too much trouble. The bulk of the errors are
becasue of mistakes on my part. Last years log sheet showed 3 operator
errors for every computer error. At the time I was recording 15 hrs/
week. We haven't watched a rerun in 15 months. Recordings that are
_identical_ to live TV (HD of course) are way better than low res
noisy analog tapes.

G²

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article ,
Ron wrote:

If I select a digital HDTV channel and try to watch it on an old set,
whats going to happen ?? This is with video in, but how about
antenna in ??

Channel 6 here is crazy, broadcasting analog some days and
broadcasting digital other days-- while broadcasting analog at night--
every night. Geez, it's enough to make somebody really go off the deep
end!

But to answer your question, a digital signal going into an old TV or
VCR tuner gets you either a blank picture-- a nice blue screen if
you're lucky-- or more likely a lot of snow and static; but no picture
whatsoever. You either need a converter box or cable.


Thanks for the answer. I guess I just have to hook er up and see.
I know several years ago my brother similar rear projection
set was able to get a much better picture receiving HDTV.


Speaking of VCR's, don't forget !!!

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/200...n_old_vcr.html