A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.
As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:39:33 +0100, N_Cook
wrote in :
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.

You don't say what make it is, nor which bike(s) it fits.

Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.

A quick educated guess, and I found a very similar device he
http://www.srm-engineering.com/electrical1 -- Lucas K2F. The company
claims to have a complete reconditioning service.

As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?

There's an exploded view he
http://members.aol.com/Pinman1/blowup.htm
http://members.aol.com/pinman1/magnetos.htm -- sounds like disassembling
the armature is best left to someone experienced.

Workshop manual he
http://www.bolsover.com/lucas/sectionL5partA.pdf

One particular item was: primary 20 g 4x45T; secondary 40 g ~30x250T
by the looks of it:
http://www.britbike.com/ubb/noncgi/u...02638/p/1.html

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:39:33 +0100, N_Cook
wrote in :
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.

[Idiot; Read the Subject line]

Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.

http://www.srm-engineering.com/electrical1. The company claims to have a
complete reconditioning service.

As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?

There's an exploded view he
http://members.aol.com/Pinman1/blowup.htm
http://members.aol.com/pinman1/magnetos.htm -- sounds like disassembling
the armature is best left to someone experienced.

Workshop manual he
http://www.bolsover.com/lucas/sectionL5partA.pdf

One particular item was: primary 20 g 4x45T; secondary 40 g ~30x250T
by the looks of it:
http://www.britbike.com/ubb/noncgi/u...02638/p/1.html

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

N_Cook wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.
As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?


This is the kind of question you could well ask in the newsgroup
uk.rec.sheds. There are a lot of old motorbikey/engineery type folks
hang out in the shed.

Ron

Dr Ivan D. Reid wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:39:33 +0100, N_Cook
wrote in :
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.

You don't say what make it is, nor which bike(s) it fits.

Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked
B.

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked
B.

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked
B.

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked
B.

Ron(UK) wrote in message
...
N_Cook wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked
B.

On 24 Apr, 19:17, "N_Cook" wrote:
knocking the
pin through the small hole of about 2.2mm diameter to release through the
larger 2.5mm hole.

Sucks teeth
"There's yer problem right away, guv. You should be measuring yer
hole in 64ths of an inch for a Lucas"
/sucks teeth

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:17:51 +0100, "N_Cook" wrote
and included this (or some of this):

From the Lucas pdf , under fig 6
http://www.bolsover.com/lucas/sectionL5partA.pdf

"Fit the new slip ring moulding on the shaft"


Oo-er Missis.


--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°³

Insanity is doing the same over and over again and
expecting a different result. Einstein.

On Apr 24, 5:39*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially *reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.
As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home..graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I hope you are either doing this as a HUGE favor for the pensioner, or
he/she is rich enough to pay you adequately for your time. No matter
how you get it apart, it will be a large royal pain to rewind with
that fine/small size wire and then reconnect the wire to the slip
rings. Any idea why so many of these hae failed, it might tell you
what not to do when rewinding.

"®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:17:51 +0100, "N_Cook" wrote
and included this (or some of this):

From the Lucas pdf , under fig 6
http://www.bolsover.com/lucas/sectionL5partA.pdf

"Fit the new slip ring moulding on the shaft"


The K2F magneto. Blimey, I haven't even heard of that since I had one on a
Matchless G12 in 1972.

And they say abfgnytvn isn't what it used to be.

Steve

hr(bob) wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 5:39 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these
magneto
coils.http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into
the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not
a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly,
so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched
and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.
As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at
this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because
of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output
laquer?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

I hope you are either doing this as a HUGE favor for the pensioner, or
he/she is rich enough to pay you adequately for your time. No matter
how you get it apart, it will be a large royal pain to rewind with
that fine/small size wire and then reconnect the wire to the slip
rings. Any idea why so many of these hae failed, it might tell you
what not to do when rewinding.

I was quite happy putting on about 14,000 turns of 45 swg wire onto boat
outboard motor magneto coils, once the traverse rate, reducing
endstop/reversal points etc was set up for my 1920s coilwinder , rusted and
totally seized but now
rescued back into working order after decades in someone's damp and leaking
shed

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
A pensioner has asked me about possiblity of rewinding some of these magneto
coils.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F.jpg
laying on cm/mm graph paper.
Orangey section is the laquered coil.
C area is the contact patch (supplying 2 HT leads in turn) moulded into the
surrounding paxolin? insulation, continued out to the boss marked P, but
otherwise looking like the tarnished brass sections in colour , marked B.
The curve above the C is the shape of one end of this contact section, not a
trick of the light.
A is aluminium housing for the contact breaker
First comment is he has 5 of these , all not working at all or properly, so
probably not good design anyway, as none were abused in use.
He has one good magneto , he moves around 3 bikes. He can get some or all
nonworkers commercially reconditioned , at a price each. But of course he
would like all 5 rewound and he knows, like me , that having researched and
set-up for one then the following 4 rewinds are much easier. I use a
coil-winder machine but little experience of these sorts of coils.
No electrical data found on the net for these.
As received by me, the secondary measured 22K ohm, now reads 6.3K , at this
stage, presumably shorted turns rather than a break for this one.
He has some sort of technical data for these , when he can find it, but
first thing is how to (after desolding) slide the laquered-in coil out of
the central section between the 2 steel pole pieces marked S, and because of
the boss marked P that holds the HT wire lead out, coil would have to be
removed from the other open section, underneath in pic. Anyone know the
number of turns, wire gauge to save having to count off ? and details of
interlayer insulation (if any). How is the HT coil output removed from the
boss P or whereabouts is the join to a feedthrough under the output laquer?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

This magneto was fitted to quite a lot of British bikes from the 50's
and early 60's.
Myself, I'd find a professional restoration service to do the job.
Safer in the long run, I think.
Sorry, I can't help with a service manual.
Colin

N_Cook wrote:

I was quite happy putting on about 14,000 turns of 45 swg wire onto boat
outboard motor magneto coils, once the traverse rate, reducing
endstop/reversal points etc was set up for my 1920s coilwinder , rusted and
totally seized but now
rescued back into working order after decades in someone's damp and leaking
shed

Ah! Are you available for alternator rewinds?


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F, SL125 & SH50
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

OK this magneto has been in an English shed for years, but "isolating"
secondary and putting a Megger between HT coil and frame shows 5M ohm to
start with
, drifting up to 100M , no good with intended KV around.

The capacitor, sorry, condenser measures 0.36uF which is presumably about
right value, anyone know what value and type of capacitor to replace it with
?

Still not managed to free the bobbin retainer roll pin yet though

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article , N_Cook
writes
OK this magneto has been in an English shed for years, but "isolating"
secondary and putting a Megger between HT coil and frame shows 5M ohm to
start with
, drifting up to 100M , no good with intended KV around.

You didn't say: I assume from the pics that the wire is merely
varnished, but is it cotton or silk covered too? if so, it may well be
breakdown through damp.

Put it in the oven at around 50deg C for a few hours (days?) and try
again.


Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TDi'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

Not rollpin , a matter of removing the ballrace and underlying steel rings
and spacer from the brass section marked BR on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F_b.jpg
requiring making up an extractor as standard pullers have no ledge to
purchase on.
The 2 long screws go the length of the steel pieces like an electric drill
housing. Marked the orientation before removing the end cap. Yes the HT wire
marked W just pushes into the boss of the paxolin pulley shown in the third
pic. An excellent site for damp ingress , via capillary action, into the
body of the coil (my excavations exploring how deep the cloth covering was).
Green corrosion on the HT wire is more obvious in the original high
resolution pic, evidencing dampness at the end of the HT sleeving.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F_c.jpg
the capacitor is the square lump covered in greasy mess in the end cap
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F_d.jpg
the paxolin pulley-like section that goes on the brass axis at W position.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Before excavating further decided to take a pic of the now obvious ingress
of damp down the HT wire. Lovely green copper carbonate staining.
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra.../home.graffiti.
net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F_c.jpg
and the other cap interior where the contact breaker connection is from the
centre fixing , insulated under and around , by what looks like a black RF
coil former
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/K2F_f.jpg

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article ,
(Colin Horsley) wrote:

Myself, I'd find a professional restoration service to do the job.
Safer in the long run, I think.

I remember that in the 80s someone was supplying a self contained
electronic ignition set that was a plug in replacement for a magneto. I
do not now if that is still available but if it is I wold go for that.

Ken Young