b wrote in
ups.com:
Leaving aside the joining wires/terminal blocks issue, on the subject
of the plugs and sockets, the UK one to me is superior in many ways.
1. fused plugs.
Not really needed, but could be a hazard due to mis-fusing.

FWIW, some lighting (especially holiday lighting) has fused plugs.

2. cord grip in plugs

Good aftermarket or factory moulded plugs have grips.

3. screw terminals in plugs -no wrapping wires.

As I said, good plugs don't have them, and wires can be twisted anti-
clockwise to wrap around screws.

4. ALL receptacles and plugs have earth pin.

That is a plus. As is the shuttered recepticals, the reason for the
earth pin on everything.

5. 3 prong design means a better fit (they don't waggle about at all)

I can't complain there. It is just easier to deal with two prong moulded
plugs, and they don't hold that bad in a decent recepticle.

6. much thicker pins - handle more current, do not bend, and seem to
resist arcing damage better.

In theory they could handle more, but are only limited to 13A by design.
the standard US plug design can do up to 20A.

7. switched sockets

Another plus for the UK (and Aussie) system.
.....etc.

The US /japan one only has the advantage of compact size, personally I
can live with a bigger plug if it means better performance. I couldn't
care less about cosmetic aspects!

just my tuppence' worth. -B.

Rich Grise writes:
http://www.voltec-industries.com/nema_chart.html
https://www.hubbellnet.com/max_htm/t...EMA/front.html
http://nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

Here's the one I use:
http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm

But yeah, TWO types of outlets? Come on, my house has way more than
just TWO types. Heck, I have at least two types of just 120v outlets.
I think I have four types of 240v outlets.

(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote in
:


Cut me a break. Since around 1960 all of the outlets in the U.S. have
grounds.

In new installations maybe. There are still many hundreds of thousands of
two prong recepticals still installed, or incorectly refitted to three
prong recepticals.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

Cut me a break. Since around 1960 all of the outlets in the U.S. have
grounds. In the U.K. you can buy appliances with 2 condoctor cords
with two plug pins that can usually be forced into U.K. outlets.
They are supposed to be for export to the E.U. but they are sold.

No you can't - legally. With the exception of shavers or toothbrushes
etc designed to fit a transformer isolated bathroom outlet, everything
must be fitted with a '13 amp' plug with a suitable fuse.

The appliances have a two prong cord, but a 13A plug with a dummy ground
pin (to open the shutters in the receptical). With the exception of those
that are inteded to be plugged into the batheroom shaver outlet, and those
sold in the black/grey market

Tam/WB2TT wrote:

I think a GFI will trip at 10 microamps.

!!!!!

Graham

Gary Tait wrote:

b wrote

Leaving aside the joining wires/terminal blocks issue, on the subject
of the plugs and sockets, the UK one to me is superior in many ways.
1. fused plugs.
Not really needed, but could be a hazard due to mis-fusing.

Hardly any more of a hazard than an unfused plug !

Graham

" wrote in news:1183051231.753923.312880
@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

As to wire-nuts, what would you propose?

Choc-Blocs or Wagos.

DJ Delorie wrote:

Rich Grise writes:
http://www.voltec-industries.com/nema_chart.html
https://www.hubbellnet.com/max_htm/t...EMA/front.html
http://nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

Here's the one I use:
http://www.quail.com/nema.cfm

But yeah, TWO types of outlets? Come on, my house has way more than
just TWO types. Heck, I have at least two types of just 120v outlets.

Why would you need more than one type ?

Graham

Eeyore writes:
Why would you need more than one type ?

Most of them are the usual 15 amp outlets (||). Some (in my workshop)
are 15/20 outlets, with the extra slot for 20A-only cords(+|). I have
one 30A twist-lock outlet in my generator, too.

I don't think I've ever seen the 20A-only plug on anything though.
Have they gone the way of the $2 bill?

In article , says...

Eeyore writes:
Why would you need more than one type ?

Most of them are the usual 15 amp outlets (||). Some (in my workshop)
are 15/20 outlets, with the extra slot for 20A-only cords(+|). I have
one 30A twist-lock outlet in my generator, too.

I don't think I've ever seen the 20A-only plug on anything though.

I've seen them on air conditioners. I put one on a bathroom kick-
board heater (2kW).

Have they gone the way of the $2 bill?

They're still around too. ;-)

--
Keith

In article ,
says...
(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote in
:


Cut me a break. Since around 1960 all of the outlets in the U.S. have
grounds.

In new installations maybe. There are still many hundreds of thousands of
two prong recepticals still installed, or incorectly refitted to three
prong recepticals.

Two-prong receptacles may be replaced by three-prong as long as there
is a GFCI on the circuit. It's common to replace the first outlet on
the chain with a GFCI outlet. The grounds don't have to be
connected, but according to code it has to be marked as ungrounded.
I agree that many are incorrectly retrofitted (no GFCI).

--
Keith

krw writes:
Have they gone the way of the $2 bill?

They're still around too. ;-)

They make great presents!

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:27:15 GMT, Eeyore
wrote:



" wrote:

Well, much of the "fires" due to faulty wiring are because we have
*had* wiring as a general condition in most houses since the early
1900s, so after 100 years or so it gets a little tired, and when
overloaded can fail. Of course, 100 years ago, y'all had very nice
green lawns and gorgeous buildings.... but little electricity other
than the very wealthy.

I'd like to see some supporting data for that litle outburst.

---
It's not up to him to provide supporting data. If you want to
refute it, get off your fat, pompous ass and provide evidence to the
contrary.


--
JF

John Fields wrote:

Eeyorewrote:
" wrote:

Well, much of the "fires" due to faulty wiring are because we have
*had* wiring as a general condition in most houses since the early
1900s, so after 100 years or so it gets a little tired, and when
overloaded can fail. Of course, 100 years ago, y'all had very nice
green lawns and gorgeous buildings.... but little electricity other
than the very wealthy.

I'd like to see some supporting data for that litle outburst.

---
It's not up to him to provide supporting data. If you want to
refute it, get off your fat, pompous ass and provide evidence to the
contrary.

Go **** a pig.

Graham

Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message
...
In article ,
Charlie Edmondson wrote:
I'm amazed. It presumably has some form of rubber insulation which
will
have crumbled away years ago.

More likely cloth, not rubber...

If like UK wiring of that age, rubberised cloth. Which crumbles away. Uk
wiring was often lead sheathed and inside the sheath the insulation can be
perfect. But the ends exposed to air etc not.

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


The lead was the earthing conductor and at most points, of a tight bend, the
lead would fail a few years after the bending at installation.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Rich Grise wrote in message
news
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:45:50 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Could someone direct me to pics of the 2 different types of plug/socket
system used in the USA to differentiate for medium and high power use, I
didn't even realise 220 or 240V was used residentially anywhere in the
USA.

http://www.voltec-industries.com/nema_chart.html
https://www.hubbellnet.com/max_htm/t...EMA/front.html
http://nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

Hope This Helps!
Rich


Helps ?
It must be easier learning Japanese than learning to differentiate all that
lot and then ominously on top of that sections marked "Reserved for Future
Configurations"
Is it subsets of that lot for each state or each utility company or a total
mish-mash ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article ,
N Cook wrote:
If like UK wiring of that age, rubberised cloth. Which crumbles away.
Uk wiring was often lead sheathed and inside the sheath the insulation
can be perfect. But the ends exposed to air etc not.


The lead was the earthing conductor and at most points, of a tight bend,
the lead would fail a few years after the bending at installation.

The entire lighting circuit in my house was wired in lead when I bought
it. And there was no sign of this at all. Nor can I think of a reason why
it would - unless subject to continuous flexing. In which case the
conductors would fail too.

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:
Also there are 2 very similar types of 2 pin plug which sometimes
causes confusion. The modern EU ones cant fit a UK socket, the pins
are too fat and too closely spaced. Forcing doesnt work. There are
also historic French plugs that look similar and do fit our sockets
with a bit of fiddling, but very rarely does one see one of those used
over here. They have 4mm pins. I dont think I've seen one in over 20
years.

The current EU standard is a 2 pin plug that looks like the one you have
not seen in 20 years. The grounded version is the same with a third
pin of the same diameter, but slightly longer between them but below.

The two "fat" round pins, were only used in some parts of Europe and
does not fit in the U.K. outlets.

According to an answer to a previous post, modern U.K. outlets have
shutters which are opened by inserting the ground pin. This is to
prevent the two round pin plugs going in on their own, albeit with
a little force.

I know the adaptors of which you spoke, I have several. They take a
two pin "euro" plug and clamp onto them. They have to be installed
with a screwdriver, so they are not for casual useage and won't
fall out halfway when pulled, like the simple two pin U.S. to "euro"
plug adaptors.

I recently bought a rice cooker made in the U.S. for export. It had
sat unused for years. It was 220 volt, but had a U.S. plug with one
of those simple adaptors on it. Since I consider the chance of it
staying together while I unplugged it near zero, as soon as I tested
it to make sure it worked, off came the plug and a three pin "euro"
plug went on it. The third pin is of no real use, the cord is only
two wire.

However, I've seen enough of them to know that I am in the very
small minority. Most people just use the adaptors and be done with
it. I assume the smarter but less handy ones tape them together.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Eeyore wrote:

I'd like to see some supporting data for that litle outburst.

As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs. As late as 1989 I bought a clock radio
in London that did not have a plug on it. You had to buy one that
matched your outlets.

As lightbulbs were mostly the same size around the world a friend of
mine who traveled, carried an adapator that screwed into a lamp
socket and had a standard U.S. outlet instead of the bulb.

I have one that is like that but it has another lamp socket
on the top and two "euro" two pin outlets. I assume that they
are highly illegal in the U.K. now.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

I'd like to see some supporting data for that litle outburst.

As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs.

I'd be very surprised about that. I can only think of 2 different plug
standards. What's your source ?

Graham

In article ,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

I'd like to see some supporting data for that litle outburst.

As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs.

Are you sure about that? There were several different socket outlets still
in use - 3, 5 and 15 amp all in either two or three pin. As well as some
odd types as an alternative to the common 13 amp plug - notably D&S and
Walsall gauge, sometimes used in council housing estates. But I think the
voltage was standardised some time before then.

As late as 1989 I bought a clock radio
in London that did not have a plug on it. You had to buy one that
matched your outlets.

Yes the requirement for a fitted 13 amp plug hasn't always been.

As lightbulbs were mostly the same size around the world a friend of
mine who traveled, carried an adapator that screwed into a lamp
socket and had a standard U.S. outlet instead of the bulb.

Heh heh - in the UK the bayonet fitting is the common one for GS bulbs.

I have one that is like that but it has another lamp socket
on the top and two "euro" two pin outlets. I assume that they
are highly illegal in the U.K. now.

Perhaps the majority of the sort of things you'd want to plug in to that
are now double insulated so require no earth.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs.

I'd be very surprised about that. I can only think of 2 different plug
standards. What's your source ?

Eh? Even with final circuit rings there were at least three types of
sockets. Normal, D&S (round pins where the live was a removable fuse) and
Walsall gauge. Same as 13 amp but the pins at 90 degrees. The last two
often used by councils on housing estates. Gawd knows why. Some official
with a bee in his bonnet. Or saving pennies.

Then plenty of the old types still in use. 3,5 and 15 amp round pin. In
both 2 and three pin. Then there were some oddities with flat pins.

US visitors used to laugh at our variety of sockets, domestically. Now we
have only one, and they have the variety...

--
*The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs.

Are you sure about that? There were several different socket outlets still
in use - 3, 5 and 15 amp all in either two or three pin.

2, 5 and 15A and they were all part of a single standard. Only the 2 and 5A
existed as 2 pin types.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_546

Graham

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
As late as the 1960's London had FOUR different electrical systems with
different voltages and plugs.

I'd be very surprised about that. I can only think of 2 different plug
standards. What's your source ?

Eh? Even with final circuit rings there were at least three types of
sockets. Normal, D&S (round pins where the live was a removable fuse) and
Walsall gauge. Same as 13 amp but the pins at 90 degrees. The last two
often used by councils on housing estates. Gawd knows why. Some official
with a bee in his bonnet. Or saving pennies.

Then plenty of the old types still in use. 3,5 and 15 amp round pin. In
both 2 and three pin. Then there were some oddities with flat pins.

The 2 and 3 pin 2, 5 and 15A plugs were all part of a single standard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_546

Never seen any flat pin jobbies.

As for Walsall gauge I've only ever seen that in the tube. Did councils really
fit them ?

Graham

On Jun 28, 2:09 pm, (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:

No, he IS saying it is in use. Some of it has been replaced, but not
all of it.

Exactly that. The precise term is "Knob and Tube", The insulation is
a mixture of silk, rubber and asphaltic tar that remains quite stable
under most conditions, although it becomes brittle at temperature
extremes (hot and cold). One would think from the ingredients that the
insulation would burn from a sideways glance... not so at all.

I worked my way through college as an old-house electrician and ran
across scads of the stuff. Some of the original lighting circuits (but
nothing else) in our house are still operating from K&T wiring
installed in 1906. The house was built in 1890, originally piped with
gas for lighting.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...e+wiring&gbv=2

Will show you it in-situ.

If you keep in mind that the conductors are typically separated by
some distance, and where they penetrate boxes, walls and turn
corners, there is either a ceramic insulator (knob) or ceramic/
additional woven silk/asphalt/rubber (tube), as long as the copper
itself is not raised to ignition-point temperatures it is quite safe.

With reference to the NEC, it may be maintained but not installed-as-
new.

And an unbelievable amount of flea-market wind-chimes are made from
old ceramic tubes....

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
2, 5 and 15A and they were all part of a single standard. Only the 2 and
5A existed as 2 pin types.

Not so. My parent's house had 2 pin 15 amp sockets - one in each room, as
installed when the house was built.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
The 2 and 3 pin 2, 5 and 15A plugs were all part of a single standard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_546

I'm just guessing but I'd say the BS that applies to them now didn't when
they were first introduced.

--
*No word in the English language rhymes with month, orange, silver,purple

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
b wrote:
Leaving aside the joining wires/terminal blocks issue, on the subject
of the plugs and sockets, the UK one to me is superior in many ways.
1. fused plugs.

Ok, I'll conceed that one, but only 50%, after all, how many people
put a 16amp fuse on a .5mm cord?

A lot. Trust me on this.

David Starr

On 29 Jun, 09:54, (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:
wrote:

Also there are 2 very similar types of 2 pin plug which sometimes
causes confusion. The modern EU ones cant fit a UK socket, the pins
are too fat and too closely spaced. Forcing doesnt work. There are
also historic French plugs that look similar and do fit our sockets
with a bit of fiddling, but very rarely does one see one of those used
over here. They have 4mm pins. I dont think I've seen one in over 20
years.

The current EU standard is a 2 pin plug that looks like the one you have
not seen in 20 years.

This is only confusing things. There are other types as well, but the
ones that dont fit UK sockets are todays EU ones. The old ones I refer
to are not the old british 2 pin plugs from the 1920s, but the old
french ones that were still in use in many places in fr in the 80s.


The grounded version is the same with a third
pin of the same diameter, but slightly longer between them but below.

The two "fat" round pins, were only used in some parts of Europe and
does not fit in the U.K. outlets.

There's more than one type answering that description, so its hard to
know what you mean.

According to an answer to a previous post, modern U.K. outlets have
shutters which are opened by inserting the ground pin. This is to
prevent the two round pin plugs going in on their own, albeit with
a little force.

Most work that way. There are also some with a shutter operated by the
L&N pins. These are harder to defeat. Not sure but I think MK
introduced those.

The main purpose of the shutter is to stop toddlers poking things in.
They also discourage people from sticking bare wires in, followed by a
plug on top. This bad practice is a lot less common today as it doesnt
usually work with insulated pins, plus ever increasing material wealth
makes it a pretty much obsolete practice even in dodgy circles.


NT

On 29 Jun, 11:46, " wrote:
On Jun 28, 2:09 pm, (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:

No, he IS saying it is in use. Some of it has been replaced, but not
all of it.

Exactly that. The precise term is "Knob and Tube", The insulation is
a mixture of silk, rubber and asphaltic tar that remains quite stable
under most conditions, although it becomes brittle at temperature
extremes (hot and cold). One would think from the ingredients that the
insulation would burn from a sideways glance... not so at all.

I worked my way through college as an old-house electrician and ran
across scads of the stuff. Some of the original lighting circuits (but
nothing else) in our house are still operating from K&T wiring
installed in 1906. The house was built in 1890, originally piped with
gas for lighting.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...e+wiring&gbv=2

Will show you it in-situ.

If you keep in mind that the conductors are typically separated by
some distance, and where they penetrate boxes, walls and turn
corners, there is either a ceramic insulator (knob) or ceramic/
additional woven silk/asphalt/rubber (tube), as long as the copper
itself is not raised to ignition-point temperatures it is quite safe.

With reference to the NEC, it may be maintained but not installed-as-
new.

And an unbelievable amount of flea-market wind-chimes are made from
old ceramic tubes....

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Seems the US developed a long lasting wiring system long before we
did. It wasnt until ashathene and pvc cables in the 60s that we
finally got cables of types that would truly last long term. So old
wiring here is almost invariably highly risky, in a very bad way and
only very occasionally encountered at all.

The main old types here are
- cotton/rubber, and its normal for the insulation to have perished
and fallen off in places, and not just at the ends.
- lead sheathed rubber insulated from 1930s, the ends of which get
into a state.


NT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

2, 5 and 15A and they were all part of a single standard. Only the 2 and
5A existed as 2 pin types.

Not so. My parent's house had 2 pin 15 amp sockets - one in each room, as
installed when the house was built.

When was this built ?

Graham

David Starr wrote:

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
b wrote:
Leaving aside the joining wires/terminal blocks issue, on the subject
of the plugs and sockets, the UK one to me is superior in many ways.
1. fused plugs.

Ok, I'll conceed that one, but only 50%, after all, how many people
put a 16amp fuse on a .5mm cord?

A lot. Trust me on this.

Since a 16A fuse for a UK plug doesn't even exist, I'll take your " Trust me on
this." with a pinch of salt.

Graham

wrote:

(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:

The current EU standard is a 2 pin plug that looks like the one you have
not seen in 20 years.

This is only confusing things. There are other types as well, but the
ones that dont fit UK sockets are todays EU ones.

There is no such thing as an *EU* plug.

Thankfully it's one thing they haven't tried to standardise.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
There is no such thing as an *EU* plug.
Thankfully it's one thing they haven't tried to standardise.

Just wait, I'm sure they'll get around to it sooner or later...

On 29 Jun, 00:14, "Tam/WB2TT" wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Its a known deal that 240v is safer than 120 for 2 main reasons.
1. The main killer is not electrocution, it is fire.

That is a sociologic/economic. not technical issue.

I dont see how. Cooking fire risks certainly differ by socio-economic
group, but I dont think electrical fire risks vary much. Things are
perhaps different in the US.


2. 240v gives much better discrimination between normal and fault
loads. IOW faults have less chance of tripping a breaker in time on
120v circuits.

I don't know what your load is. The US load per branch circuit is 1800 W,
before the circuit breaker in the box will trip. I think a GFI will trip at
10 microamps.

20mA is the typical figure for our standard 30mA RCDs, but most fire
causing faults are not detected by RCD, and most properties dont have
an RCD.

But that is a separate issue to fault current discriminaiton.


NT

On Jun 29, 12:34 pm, wrote:

Seems the US developed a long lasting wiring system long before we
did. It wasnt until ashathene and pvc cables in the 60s that we
finally got cables of types that would truly last long term. So old
wiring here is almost invariably highly risky, in a very bad way and
only very occasionally encountered at all.

The main old types here are
- cotton/rubber, and its normal for the insulation to have perished
and fallen off in places, and not just at the ends.
- lead sheathed rubber insulated from 1930s, the ends of which get
into a state.

That is just the half-of-it. We have had NEMA (National Electrical
Manufacturers Association) standards for pretty much all of present
living memory such that appliances (AC & AC/DC) manufactured in the
20s are compatible with receptacles and ratings today. For instance,
1920s-installed duplex receptacles will accept fat-blade neutral
(polarized) plugs that are today's standard. One can 'call out' by
NEMA number a receptacle and plug that are specific to, and compatible
with both the load and application, from isolated-ground hospital-
applications to heavy-load vibration-proof applications, one, two
(yes, there is still 4-wire/2-phase power applications in the US) and
three-phase. And, be assured that that unit and/or combination will
fit and be acceptable anywhere in the US. One example I claim is a
1928-model Sky Rover radio with a tri-voltage switchable power-supply
(105/110/120V) and a standard NEMA-labeled plug. About a year-and-some
after NEMA's inception.

http://www.nema.org/about/history/

On a related note, IMAGINE purchasing an appliance with no plug on
it... on the premise that what is in your house is not the same as
next door, or next door to that. AND THEN... the home-owner is
expected to purchase said plug compatible with their specific system,
THEN to install it correctly. This was the common state of affairs in
parts of Europe until not so long ago.

Fascinating also that every country in Europe seems to have a
different standard for receptacles, wiring, fusing and so forth. Y'all
do need standards if only to allow cross-border commerce much less
reduce costs and enhance safety.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

" writes:
On a related note, IMAGINE purchasing an appliance with no plug on
it... on the premise that what is in your house is not the same as
next door, or next door to that. AND THEN... the home-owner is
expected to purchase said plug compatible with their specific system,
THEN to install it correctly. This was the common state of affairs in
parts of Europe until not so long ago.

Actually, this is common in USA woodworking equipment also. Many of
my 240V machines came with no plug.

On Jun 29, 2:34 pm, DJ Delorie wrote:
" writes:
On a related note, IMAGINE purchasing an appliance with no plug on
it... on the premise that what is in your house is not the same as
next door, or next door to that. AND THEN... the home-owner is
expected to purchase said plug compatible with their specific system,
THEN to install it correctly. This was the common state of affairs in
parts of Europe until not so long ago.

Actually, this is common in USA woodworking equipment also. Many of
my 240V machines came with no plug.

With no plug, or no cord at all? Those are two entirely different
things. The former is illegal, the latter quite common. With the
latter, there will be a note: Professional Installation Only or words
to that effect.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

" writes:
With no plug, or no cord at all? Those are two entirely different
things. The former is illegal, the latter quite common. With the
latter, there will be a note: Professional Installation Only or words
to that effect.

I've seen both "cord with no plug" and "no cord at all". The reason
is usually that the tool can be internally wired for either 120v or
240v, and which you choose determines which plug you must install.

I'm not talking about hand tools, I'm talking about big cast iron
tools like table saws and jointers.

On Jun 27, 2:26 pm, "N Cook" wrote:

The USA cannot have the equivalent of RoSPA (Royal Society for the
Prevention of Accidents)

We have the NEC, ANSI (and NFPA) and NEMA. That is:

National Electrical Code

American National Standards Institute

National Fire Protection Association

National Electrical Standards Association

They all have jurisdiction over the way things-electrical are
represented, sold, wired and fused. We have a National testing
organization - Underwriter's Laboratory, AKA UL that puts labels on
entire assemblies (UL) or parts that go into them (UR), and works
closely with Canada in the same way with similar alphabet soup.

Our receptacles have very narrow slots with the conductors held back
from the front. Not at all to say that accidents don't happen, but it
is not so easy as with the honking-large slots on Brit receptacles so,
putting little shutters on them is a good idea.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA