Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you
touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage voltage is 125 volts but
the leakage current
is too small to kill a person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as
the power cord is two pin
and this also happen when it is a new set .Thanks
Regards

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you
touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage voltage is 125 volts but
the leakage current
is too small to kill a person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as
the power cord is two pin
and this also happen when it is a new set .Thanks
Regards


Not enough current to kill? Must be a design defect.

Mark Z.

Could be a wiring fault in the outlet, neutral and hot reversed. Try
plugging it in another room.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you
touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage voltage is 125 volts but
the leakage current
is too small to kill a person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as
the power cord is two pin
and this also happen when it is a new set .Thanks
Regards

In article . com,
wrote:
Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage
voltage is 125 volts but the leakage current is too small to kill a
person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as the power cord is two
pin and this also happen when it is a new set.

It's common these days - usually RFI suppression.

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12 Feb 2006 05:16:31 -0800, wrote:

Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you
touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage voltage is 125 volts but
the leakage current
is too small to kill a person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as
the power cord is two pin
and this also happen when it is a new set .Thanks
Regards

A DVD player that shocks normal? Categorically: not normal.

It is possible that some power line filter cap is leaking enough to
the chassis to cause something like that, but I find it hard to
believe Philips would allow that in a consumer item. They'd change
the design. That sort of thing is bad for business.

Reverse the plug in the socket and see if it goes away.

Don't ignore it. Make sure it is the DVD player and not the TV or HI
FI that's plugged into it that is causing the problem.

If it is the DVD player, or other component, you really can't just
hope it won't get worse - there may be some failing insulation and it
is just possible that some circumstance (high temperature, wet floor,
humidity, a different outlet, time, etc.) will make it lethal.

BTW you don't say what your line voltage is. If it is 220 and you get
~125 that lends some credence to it being a power line filter.

Treat it like it is lethal until you know how to fix it. If all else
fails, ground the sucker to a good ground. If you just bought it take
it back and get one that doesn't shock, or get a different brand.
--

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Is this a single shock that you no longer feel as a tingle once you
have your hand on the unit?
If yes, then it is common static build up, probably on your body that
is discharging to the path through the metal case.

If it is a continuous tingle, then there may be some leakage current in
the device.

Simply disconnect the dvd player from all other devices (tv, audio,
etc), plus it in, and measure the voltage between the metal case and
ground with a 1K ohm resistor across the meter leads. If you still
measure a significant voltage across the 1K ohm resistor, then there is
a problem in the dvd player. Then reconnect it to everything else, if
you now measure a significant voltage across the 1K ohm resistor, then
you have a problem with another device that is connected to the DVD
player.

It's normal for most equipment with switching power supplies to have
some relatively studly capacitors across the AC line, center tap to
chassis. This is supposed to be to keep any RFI generated inside the
box from leaking back out through the power cord, and vice-versa.

Older equipment tended to have much smaller capacitors, on the order of
0.005uF, which could still give you a very mild tingle, but nothing
like what you get from todays capacitors-- I've seen up to 0.1uf to
ground, 0.47uF across the line.

How did you determine the leakage current? Is it on the same outlet that
you experienced the shock?

Leonard

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hallo members, my Philips brand of DVD player have some kinds of
electric shock if you
touch the metal panel. I measure the leakage voltage is 125 volts but
the leakage current
is too small to kill a person. I 'm curious to know is this normal as
the power cord is two pin
and this also happen when it is a new set .Thanks
Regards

What you are describing is not right. Check if the AC outlet is wired
correctly. If so, then have the appliance's power supply checked for
ground faults.

Jerry G.

"Jerry G." wrote in message
ups.com...
What you are describing is not right. Check if the AC outlet is wired
correctly. If so, then have the appliance's power supply checked for
ground faults.

Jerry G.

its going to have a earth fault as it does not have one??
I would disconnect all cables apart from the mains and then measure it as it
could be the tv or video ETC

Thanks members for the early responed, and my further finding for
member's questions is:
(1) The DVD player's input voltage is 240 V AC.
(2)When reverse the plug in the socket will reduce to 60 volts AC
leakage
(3) When I measure a cross with 1 K resistor the leakage voltage become
zero volt.
(4)When measure between the earth and the metal panel is 0.04 in ma
range but 137 in ua range. unknow why resultant is different. ?
(5) When measure between the earth and the power input ( two pin )
there isn't any ohm.
(6) It is not a Single shock
Regards

On 13 Feb 2006 00:51:10 -0800, wrote:

Thanks members for the early responed, and my further finding for
member's questions is:
(1) The DVD player's input voltage is 240 V AC.
(2)When reverse the plug in the socket will reduce to 60 volts AC
leakage

That would bother me the RFI caps on switching supplies should divide
the voltage equally since they tend to be identical to the "ground"
chassis connection.

(3) When I measure a cross with 1 K resistor the leakage voltage become
zero volt.

That's good.

(4)When measure between the earth and the metal panel is 0.04 in ma
range but 137 in ua range. unknow why resultant is different. ?

That's not what I'd expect, but this isn't a hard connection. You
seem to be measuring the voltage through a capacitor and/or resistor
in the RFI filter.

(5) When measure between the earth and the power input ( two pin )
there isn't any ohm.

Shouldn't be, but the type of tester you should be using is called a
hi pot or high potential tester and that would tell you if it is safe
or insulation breaks down with high applied voltage - the typical ohm
meter may not be the best tool to check ohms or safety.

(6) It is not a Single shock
Regards

I'm guessing you have an IEC power cord? Thingee that is designed for
three wires? And you've gone and cut the ground off?

You are probably "safe," at the moment at least. It may be safe
indefinitely. Safety devices are to protect you when things go wrong.

If it were me I'd ground it and wouldn't be using it without a ground.
If I couldn't ground it (in an apartment with no access to a ground,
for instance) I'd take care that the parts I touched were insulated.


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On 13 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0800, wrote:

I comfirm that is a two pin power core.

Describe the plug end and machine end. Are the pins in the plug
round or flat? Is there any other thing (like small piece of metal on
the plug with a hole in it) on the plug end?

Does the machine end have an IEC connector? Machine end would be a
recessed, keyed (only goes in one way) male on the machine female on
the cord.

What has me baffled is that the whole purpose of a filter with caps or
resistors in it (the part causing the shocks) is to filter noise to
ground. Most filter line-to-line and each line-to-ground.

Now without providing a ground . . . how's the noise supposed to drain
to ground? Presumably they could count on the TV or Stereo to do it
but that's not in any safety specification I've seen.
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Hi morning., thanks for your reply. It just a two hollow pins inlet at
the back of the dvd player, as most of our members belive may cause by
filter circuit, I will open the dvd layer look for the filter. I would
like to said big thank you for members who responed in this topic &
happy valentime day.
Regards

default wrote in message
news
On 13 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0800, wrote:

I comfirm that is a two pin power core.

Describe the plug end and machine end. Are the pins in the plug

in the UK we have two pin figure of 8 connectors like this
http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Produ...?ProductID=475
its a two core cable no earth and not keyed so you can plug it in both ways
and quite happily plug live to neutral and visa versa

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:40:15 GMT, "Mr Fixit"
wrote:


default wrote in message
news
On 13 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0800, wrote:

I comfirm that is a two pin power core.

Describe the plug end and machine end. Are the pins in the plug

in the UK we have two pin figure of 8 connectors like this
http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Produ...?ProductID=475
its a two core cable no earth and not keyed so you can plug it in both ways
and quite happily plug live to neutral and visa versa


From your link:

"Description Generic Main lead - UK to Figure 8
Mains lead with UK style 3 pin plug, terminated with Figure 8 style
moulded connector."

Says three pin plug.

We (US) had some plugs shipped over here that were supposed to be for
the UK at a place I worked. They were large round molded bodies with
two smooth polished round pins and the pins had insulating sleeves
near the plug body. They had three wires blue, brown, green/yellow
and an IEC connector at one end.

There was a third flat metal piece on the plug that had a round hole
that went through the plug body. It was connected to ground and its
purpose seemed to be to add a pin or perhaps a screw to keep the plug
in place? Just speculating . . .

I was on line looking for UK electrical requirements. They seem to be
the same as here in the states. Three wires with a hot neutral and
ground . . . only difference I saw was in the wiring of electrical
light switches they don't show the ground going to the switch -
perhaps that was an oversimplification.

We have some two wire appliances with GFI protection built into the
plugs and "wall wart" switching supplies with only two wires.
Computers are three wire. The area I live at has adapted an
electrical code that requires four wires on 240 volt electric stoves.

There's still a lot of two wire appliances - many of those have
all-plastic bodies. Houses and new construction here require GFI
protection on outlets outside the house, in most garages, all
bathrooms and kitchens, on hot tubs etc..

Workplace safety hasn't caught up - I tried to promote GFI's in a
laboratory where I worked - we had large volumes of water (and
electrolytes) and lots of electrical equipment. It wasn't required,
so they wouldn't do it, but they put one on my workbench because I
worked on the equipment - and I didn't ask for it, had no water
nearby, etc..

I inadvertently got connected to a leaky coffee maker - the GFI
tripped and I could feel the current. Just now put a 12K resistor
across the hot to ground and tripped the GFI - instantly.

UL rules he GFI required to trip at
6 milliamps within 5.6 seconds
50 ma in 270 milliseconds
100 ma in 100 milliseconds
250 ma in 27 milliseconds

In practice, 6 milliamps will cause a trip in 50 milliseconds or less.
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default wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:40:15 GMT, "Mr Fixit"
wrote:


default wrote in message
news
On 13 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0800, wrote:

I comfirm that is a two pin power core.

Describe the plug end and machine end. Are the pins in the plug

in the UK we have two pin figure of 8 connectors like this
http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Produ...?ProductID=475
its a two core cable no earth and not keyed so you can plug it in both
ways
and quite happily plug live to neutral and visa versa


From your link:

"Description Generic Main lead - UK to Figure 8
Mains lead with UK style 3 pin plug, terminated with Figure 8 style
moulded connector."

Says three pin plug.

correct all our outlet plugs have three pins but not all are used as all our
cables are not three core?? we have two and 3 core cable there are two pin
plugs that look like an 8 hence the term "figure of 8 style" that plug into
the equipment that have no earth requirement or are double insulated

In article ,
default wrote:
"Description Generic Main lead - UK to Figure 8
Mains lead with UK style 3 pin plug, terminated with Figure 8 style
moulded connector."

Says three pin plug.

Yehbut figure of 8 is two. For domestic use all UK plugs are three pin,
but if the device conforms to the appropriate regs the cord may well be
just two.

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
default wrote:
I was on line looking for UK electrical requirements. They seem to be
the same as here in the states. Three wires with a hot neutral and
ground . . . only difference I saw was in the wiring of electrical
light switches they don't show the ground going to the switch -
perhaps that was an oversimplification.

Line neutral and earth in the UK. And neutral and earth are connected
together at some point - but not at the actual appliance. Either the
nearest substation or where the supply comes into the house - in some
cases. So only the line is 'hot' although in practice there may be a small
potential between neutral and earth in some installations.

With lighting, the neutral doesn't usually go to the switch enclosure, but
the earth does.

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

default ha escrito:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:40:15 GMT, "Mr Fixit"
wrote:


default wrote in message
news
On 13 Feb 2006 12:31:54 -0800, wrote:

I comfirm that is a two pin power core.

Describe the plug end and machine end. Are the pins in the plug

in the UK we have two pin figure of 8 connectors like this
http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Produ...?ProductID=475
its a two core cable no earth and not keyed so you can plug it in both ways
and quite happily plug live to neutral and visa versa


From your link:

"Description Generic Main lead - UK to Figure 8
Mains lead with UK style 3 pin plug, terminated with Figure 8 style
moulded connector."

Says three pin plug.

We (US) had some plugs shipped over here that were supposed to be for
the UK at a place I worked. They were large round molded bodies with
two smooth polished round pins and the pins had insulating sleeves
near the plug body. They had three wires blue, brown, green/yellow
and an IEC connector at one end.

There was a third flat metal piece on the plug that had a round hole
that went through the plug body.

what you are describing is a schucko plug TYPE F used in Europe NOT the
Uk .
uk plug has 3 flat pins in triangle formation, TYPE G. top one (earth)
slighly longer to enable spring-loaded shielding in the socket to move
downwards revealing the live /neutral only when a plug inserted.. see:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandar...city.htm#plugs

-B.

On 14 Feb 2006 19:02:33 -0800, "b" wrote:

what you are describing is a schucko plug TYPE F used in Europe NOT the
Uk .
uk plug has 3 flat pins in triangle formation, TYPE G. top one (earth)
slighly longer to enable spring-loaded shielding in the socket to move
downwards revealing the live /neutral only when a plug inserted.. see:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandar...city.htm#plugs

-B.

Thanks
--

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wrote:
It's normal for most equipment with switching power supplies to have
some relatively studly capacitors across the AC line, center tap to
chassis.

Not in the UK it's not! All equipment fitted with 2 pin plugs must be
double insulated
for exactly this reason. One leaky cap' could make any metal lethal.

In article .com,
Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:
It's normal for most equipment with switching power supplies to have
some relatively studly capacitors across the AC line, center tap to
chassis.

Not in the UK it's not! All equipment fitted with 2 pin plugs must be
double insulated
for exactly this reason. One leaky cap' could make any metal lethal.

I can assure you it is common. But the amount of current leaked to the
chassis and accessed via a phono socket screen etc is too small to be a
risk. But you can still feel it under certain conditions.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot
see a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected
to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.

I will check latest spec' and get back....

Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:
It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot
see a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected
to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.

I will check latest spec' and get back....

Any mains input filter I have ever seen, contains those
capacitors,and all computers and periferal equipment
have them . If they would not have them, they could
never pass the high frequency leak rules, and your
mains wiring would turn into nice transmitting arials
so that all radios and tv's in the neighbourhood would
become useless.
Those filters look like a nice solid block,but inside
are some blocking ferrite coils and decoupling
capaciters to ground.
And you should not use any hardware without a ground
connection, it stops radiating interference, and without
the ground connection you can blow your hardware when
connecting a cable between them,even if they are switched
off(when signalwire makes contact before the groundwire).
It also stops you from feeling tingling (or worse).
As for the capacitor going shortcicuit, as long as you
are using ground, it will safely blow the fuse or
the leak protection.

On 2006-02-15, Sjouke Burry wrote:
Any mains input filter I have ever seen, contains those
capacitors,and all computers and periferal equipment
have them . If they would not have them, they could

Those are X2-rated (or similar) capacitors. Manufacturer guarantees that
they will not short circuit when broken. However, eventually some of them
will (nothings perfect). So, current flows to protective earth and fuse blows.

As long as equipment is properly grounded, there's no problem. If it ain't,
there might be lot's of 'em. Like burning the whole machine and getting
electric shock.

--
- Mika Lindblad

Mika Lindblad wrote:

As long as equipment is properly grounded, there's no problem.

Yes that is what the thread is about. 2 pin mains supply which probably
won't be grounded so why should a person get a shock from touching a
customer
accessible part of the cabinet?

In article . com,
Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:
It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot see
a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.

IIRC, they're not normally connected direct to the signal earth or case
but via a high value resistor. And those don't fail short circuit.

RFI suppression using this sort of technique has been common for probably
30 years or more. The usual answer is to plug in the signal leads before
applying the power - which is good practice anyway.

--
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:

It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot see
a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.


IIRC, they're not normally connected direct to the signal earth or case
but via a high value resistor. And those don't fail short circuit.

RFI suppression using this sort of technique has been common for probably
30 years or more. The usual answer is to plug in the signal leads before
applying the power - which is good practice anyway.

Any resistor would make them totally useless.
The cap resitance must be near zero for high
frequency's.And plugging with power off does not
protect your inputs,the filter comes before your
main switch, and the cap current can damage
a mosfet input,even if it is only microamps,the
voltage is half the mains voltage,when there is
no ground path.

"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
. ..
Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:
It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot
see a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected
to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.

I will check latest spec' and get back....

Any mains input filter I have ever seen, contains those
capacitors,and all computers and periferal equipment
have them . If they would not have them, they could
never pass the high frequency leak rules, and your
mains wiring would turn into nice transmitting arials
so that all radios and tv's in the neighbourhood would
become useless.
Those filters look like a nice solid block,but inside
are some blocking ferrite coils and decoupling
capaciters to ground.
And you should not use any hardware without a ground
connection, it stops radiating interference, and without
the ground connection you can blow your hardware when
connecting a cable between them,even if they are switched
off(when signalwire makes contact before the groundwire).
I think you need to do some investigations into this as none of my HiFi TV
DVD CD's or VCR's has an earth connection as its all connected via 2 core
mains cables?????? and this is how it was designed to work from the
manufacturers

It also stops you from feeling tingling (or worse).
As for the capacitor going shortcicuit, as long as you
are using ground, it will safely blow the fuse or
the leak protection.

IIRC, they're not normally connected direct to the signal earth or case
but via a high value resistor. And those don't fail short circuit.

No but resistors do change value. High resistance ones usually
downwards.

RFI suppression using this sort of technique has been common for probably
30 years or more. The usual answer is to plug in the signal leads before
applying the power - which is good practice anyway.

"Good practise"? Err this is customer devices we are talking about....

BTW, I have just opened up my recent DVD player to have a look (UK)
and there are NO capacitors going from mains to chassis.

Hi Good morning members, I'm curious to know if a circuit without earth
connect to the ac main, how to reduce noise from the circuit, like the
dvd or hifi player ? thanks
Mr Fixit wrote:
"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
. ..
Just Another Theremin Fan wrote:
It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although
it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot
see a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected
to
external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.

I will check latest spec' and get back....

Any mains input filter I have ever seen, contains those
capacitors,and all computers and periferal equipment
have them . If they would not have them, they could
never pass the high frequency leak rules, and your
mains wiring would turn into nice transmitting arials
so that all radios and tv's in the neighbourhood would
become useless.
Those filters look like a nice solid block,but inside
are some blocking ferrite coils and decoupling
capaciters to ground.
And you should not use any hardware without a ground
connection, it stops radiating interference, and without
the ground connection you can blow your hardware when
connecting a cable between them,even if they are switched
off(when signalwire makes contact before the groundwire).
I think you need to do some investigations into this as none of my HiFi TV
DVD CD's or VCR's has an earth connection as its all connected via 2 core
mains cables?????? and this is how it was designed to work from the
manufacturers

It also stops you from feeling tingling (or worse).
As for the capacitor going shortcicuit, as long as you
are using ground, it will safely blow the fuse or
the leak protection.

wrote:
Hi Good morning members, I'm curious to know if a circuit without earth
connect to the ac main, how to reduce noise from the circuit, like the
dvd or hifi player ? thanks

A properly designed circuit should not radiate any noise. If it does
take the
equipment back to the supplier as faulty.