I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,

On 3 Feb 2006 12:30:20 -0800, "jcpearce"
wrote:

I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,

I have a '72 R75/5. It had an old mechanical reg (still excited
field type - same as used in most cars and your RS)

I replaced it with a solid state one I found/adapted from an auto
manual. Two transistors, 5 fixed resistors, one variable (so I can
set the limit) one zener diode and a couple of rectifier diodes.

I'm not aware of anyone marketing a TO3 style regulator for lead acid
batteries but I seem to remember GM alternators had one that fit on
the brush housing (so it would be three connections, ala TO-3)

My homemade one uses four wires - one to ignition (but it works with
that tied to the alternator output - used it on a Toyota Land Cruiser
in that mode), one to ground, one to the alternator diodes (diode
board in the R75 with a set of 3 diodes that only fed the regulator),
and an wire for the slip rings.

My bike has a "charge" indicating lamp on it. When the alternator is
just starting - the current to excite the field comes through the
idiot light - when the alternator is spinning, and generating voltage,
the power for the slip rings comes from the diodes, turning the idiot
light off.

I can supply the schematic of what I used.. You'd need a modicum of
electronics knowledge (ability to observe polarity of the diodes,
connect the semiconductors, solder and package it (no heat sink
necessary if you use a TO-3 or TO-220 or TO-66 or similar transistor
for the output. I used a pair of 2N3054 transistors and heat-sinked
the pass transistor - but it never got mildly warm.

Mine has worked since 1973 - the transistors are exposed and I've been
varnishing them to slow the rust. I have a 81 Honda 750 and it uses
the same type alternator - I rewound the rotor when it shorted -
that's a lot harder than building a simple regulator.

I can scan and send the schematic if you want to try building one,
remove capital Xs and treat like an email ady.

XganethX(at)movemail(dot)com
--

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default wrote in message
...
On 3 Feb 2006 12:30:20 -0800, "jcpearce"
wrote:

I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,

I have a '72 R75/5. It had an old mechanical reg (still excited
field type - same as used in most cars and your RS)

I replaced it with a solid state one I found/adapted from an auto
manual. Two transistors, 5 fixed resistors, one variable (so I can
set the limit) one zener diode and a couple of rectifier diodes.

I'm not aware of anyone marketing a TO3 style regulator for lead acid
batteries but I seem to remember GM alternators had one that fit on
the brush housing (so it would be three connections, ala TO-3)

My homemade one uses four wires - one to ignition (but it works with
that tied to the alternator output - used it on a Toyota Land Cruiser
in that mode), one to ground, one to the alternator diodes (diode
board in the R75 with a set of 3 diodes that only fed the regulator),
and an wire for the slip rings.

My bike has a "charge" indicating lamp on it. When the alternator is
just starting - the current to excite the field comes through the
idiot light - when the alternator is spinning, and generating voltage,
the power for the slip rings comes from the diodes, turning the idiot
light off.

I can supply the schematic of what I used.. You'd need a modicum of
electronics knowledge (ability to observe polarity of the diodes,
connect the semiconductors, solder and package it (no heat sink
necessary if you use a TO-3 or TO-220 or TO-66 or similar transistor
for the output. I used a pair of 2N3054 transistors and heat-sinked
the pass transistor - but it never got mildly warm.

Mine has worked since 1973 - the transistors are exposed and I've been
varnishing them to slow the rust. I have a 81 Honda 750 and it uses
the same type alternator - I rewound the rotor when it shorted -
that's a lot harder than building a simple regulator.

I can scan and send the schematic if you want to try building one,
remove capital Xs and treat like an email ady.

XganethX(at)movemail(dot)com

I also would like a scan of schematic if you would. Can send direct to
hiviewNOSPAM@ bresnan.net Of course leave out the no spam TIA Warren





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I suggest you ask this question on sci.electronics.design.

They will design a new one for you...

Mark

jcpearce wrote:
I am not a big electronics chap


Are you in England? If you were in the states, I'd suggest calling
National Automotive Lines in Shelbyville, Indiana. They do not have a
website. They sell car parts, but the link you provided suggests that
the brush-regulator assembly is used in a variety of automotive
alternators, not just bike regulators.

The toll-free number is 1-800-428-4300. The toll-free fax number is
1-888-442-9222. It's a great outfit to do business with.

jcpearce wrote:
I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,



Have you looked online? Volvo and Saab both use a very similar Bosch
alternator with the onboard regulator, the last time I needed one it was
only about $30 online though the dealer charges around $170.

On 3 Feb 2006 12:30:20 -0800, "jcpearce"
wrote:

I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,

If it's a modular unit it's a simple matter of buying a new one.
Usually around 20-30 bucks US.(unless you purchase direct from the
dealer then of course it may cost more.)

jcpearce wrote:

I am not a big electronics chap so this may be an obvious answer but..

I drive a BMW R1100RS motorcycle and the alternator has hit the dirt,
removing the voltage regulator/brush unit
(http://dazhong.en.alibaba.com/produc...Regulator.html
) and testing with an ohm meter I can the see the To-3 regulator has
failed (high continuity between input and ground). A new unit cost
$120 but I'd like to repair if possible.

The battery is the usual 12v and the running voltage is 14v. The
regulator regulates the voltage on the slip rings which excites the
rotor, but I assume the voltage for the rotor varies with the load, so
if the bus voltage is 14v more voltage is sent to the rotor. So why
kind of regulator is this and can I find one in Mouser?

Thanks and cheers,

Hi...

Your use of the word "chap" leads me to believe you're
probably somewhere in the UK, so don't know how helpful
this might be.... but...

Here we can buy rebuild kits for virtually any alternator
for about 20 dollars cdn. They come with everything,
the regulator of course, as well as new brushes, springs,
bearings, etc.

Our most "famous" source is Canadian Tire, perhaps you have
something equivalent over there?

Take care.

Ken

I have english background, but I live in the States.
I have checked Kragen's and the part retails for $110. Amazing as I
bought a whole rebuit alternator for my experimental plane for $20
(with core). Probably some generic american brand would be quite
cheaper. I can get the actual BMW part for $85 so I will probably just
do that vs run around on an experiment I soldered together. A new BMW
alternator costs $575, talk about bending over.

jcpearce wrote:
I have english background, but I live in the States.
I have checked Kragen's and the part retails for $110. Amazing as I
bought a whole rebuit alternator for my experimental plane for $20
(with core). Probably some generic american brand would be quite
cheaper. I can get the actual BMW part for $85 so I will probably just
do that vs run around on an experiment I soldered together. A new BMW
alternator costs $575, talk about bending over.



Check out www.alloembmwparts.com, it crosses to the same site I get
Volvo and Saab parts from. I don't know what model your BMW is but they
list the same Bosch regulator/brushpack that many other European cars
use and it's $26 aftermarket or $44 OEM. That place has great service
too, I've ordered items several times and had them show up within 48
hours with standard shipping.

Not that it's relevant, but I used to own a BMW, a 1970 1600. I
eventually installed a Bosch alternator from an Opel in the BMW. The
only difference was in the mounting ears on the exterior of the
alternator. The internals were identical.

I suspect that interchangeability is still the rule, and that if you
order the Bosch alternator as a Volkswagen part or an Opel part, for
example, you will pay less for it than you would had you ordered from
the BMW dealer.

In article .com,
Beloved Leader wrote:
I suspect that interchangeability is still the rule, and that if you
order the Bosch alternator as a Volkswagen part or an Opel part, for
example, you will pay less for it than you would had you ordered from
the BMW dealer.

Or get an exchange unit from a Bosch dealer. Or indeed an exchange unit
from any reputable source.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article .com,
Beloved Leader wrote:
I suspect that interchangeability is still the rule, and that if you
order the Bosch alternator as a Volkswagen part or an Opel part, for
example, you will pay less for it than you would had you ordered from
the BMW dealer.

Or get an exchange unit from a Bosch dealer. Or indeed an exchange unit
from any reputable source.
Try any import parts dealer for an aftermarket. Beck/Arnley
specializes in high quality aftermarket electronic/electrics for
imports.
In the US there is also Standard electrics who manufactures all sorts
of crossable aftermarket part for auto electrics. You can usually get
Standard brand at NAPA or any good speed shop.
Bosch also should have that component, I've used Bosch parts in alot
of the competitive racers I helped build.(I especially liked their
"blue coils" and the adjustable brain boxes they offered. very easy to
adjust top performance and super tough.)

If you can find an old part man who really knows his stuff he'll most
likely have a cross-parts manual, something that's very hard to come
by. I had a fellow who had a cross manual for all things
British/Italian to Most American electrics.( Used him alot to clean
out all the bad electrics that came on British cars. When I'd finished
that MG or Jaguar would be running on a Ford/autolite
altenator/regulator and a good marine grade all copper wiring
harness.)

On 5 Feb 2006 17:38:12 -0800, "jcpearce"
wrote:

I have english background, but I live in the States.
I have checked Kragen's and the part retails for $110. Amazing as I
bought a whole rebuit alternator for my experimental plane for $20
(with core). Probably some generic american brand would be quite
cheaper. I can get the actual BMW part for $85 so I will probably just
do that vs run around on an experiment I soldered together. A new BMW
alternator costs $575, talk about bending over.

NEVER buy from the dealer. Go to any decent import parts store and get
the beck/Arnley aftermarket part. Or Bosch.

In article ,
none wrote:
( Used him alot to clean out all the bad electrics that came on British
cars. When I'd finished that MG or Jaguar would be running on a
Ford/autolite altenator/regulator and a good marine grade all copper
wiring harness.)

;-) What problems did you have with the actual wire?

Lucas got the blame for the poor quality components but in reality it was
the penny pinching car makers demanding the lowest prices. The original
Jaguar company being notorious for this. If Lucas didn't make them down to
their price they'd have bought elsewhere. But Lucas also made very high
quality stuff for Rolls Royce - and of course aerospace work.
Funnily the vehicle which sticks in my mind with the very worst electrics
I've owned was a small Bedford van - made by GM in the UK. With mainly
Delco electrics. It was a miracle to have all the basic stuff working at
any one time...

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

the Lucas to Autolite conversion.

If the OP can find a way to adapt a GM three-wire alternator to his BMW
bike, he will never have to worry about finding Bosch alternator parts
again. That's a bit of a modification though, I suspect.

In article . com,
Beloved Leader wrote:
the Lucas to Autolite conversion.

If the OP can find a way to adapt a GM three-wire alternator to his BMW
bike, he will never have to worry about finding Bosch alternator parts
again. That's a bit of a modification though, I suspect.

Three wire alternators are usually just a battery sensing device so not
difficult to modify the wiring for - unless I've got it wrong?

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
Beloved Leader wrote:

the Lucas to Autolite conversion.


If the OP can find a way to adapt a GM three-wire alternator to his BMW
bike, he will never have to worry about finding Bosch alternator parts
again. That's a bit of a modification though, I suspect.


Three wire alternators are usually just a battery sensing device so not
difficult to modify the wiring for - unless I've got it wrong?



He's referring to the old style with a 3 wire cable going to an external
regulator. Bosch made those too, but when I encounter them I usually
swap to the later style alternator with an onboard regulator, one less
cable stringing around the engine bay.

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:47:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
none wrote:
( Used him alot to clean out all the bad electrics that came on British
cars. When I'd finished that MG or Jaguar would be running on a
Ford/autolite altenator/regulator and a good marine grade all copper
wiring harness.)

;-) What problems did you have with the actual wire?

Lucas got the blame for the poor quality components but in reality it was
the penny pinching car makers demanding the lowest prices. The original
Jaguar company being notorious for this. If Lucas didn't make them down to
their price they'd have bought elsewhere. But Lucas also made very high
quality stuff for Rolls Royce - and of course aerospace work.
Funnily the vehicle which sticks in my mind with the very worst electrics
I've owned was a small Bedford van - made by GM in the UK. With mainly
Delco electrics. It was a miracle to have all the basic stuff working at
any one time...

Well... GM electronics have allways been notoriously bad.
Had a brother in law who was a designer for Delco at one time and
later Packard electric. He was always complaining about GM and how
crappy they could be in regards to design standards.

As for the Lucas wiring harnesses, aluminum wire and incredibly cheap
grade vinyl insulation. Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in
smoke from harness fire?
In the very last years of production at British Leyland that damn
aluminum wire would find it's way into just about everything they
rolled off the line.
And what with the poorly designed electronics in the late models any
resistance load variances over the harness could make for some very
wonky functions.
Never have liked anything turned out by Lucas. ( I'd have a constant
stream of customers who'd need new rectifiers for their Lucas
altenators. Those things tended to burn out every few months or so and
many customers insisted on keeping their British import authentic.
Even when I tried to tell then that not all MG's had Lucas under the
hood and that it'd be ok to replace with more reliable electrics. Take
for example the v8 mgb's with the 3.2 litre v8 from buick. Very rare
state side but very popular back across the pond. All quality Delco,
at least compared to what Lucas stuck in 'em.)

In article ,
none wrote:
As for the Lucas wiring harnesses, aluminum wire and incredibly cheap
grade vinyl insulation. Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in
smoke from harness fire?
In the very last years of production at British Leyland that damn
aluminum wire would find it's way into just about everything they
rolled off the line.

I've had countless cars with Lucas electrics dating back to the early '50s
and never ever come across aluminium cable. I still own an '85 SD1 Rover.

Why they should have used this stuff for export defeats me.

Aluminium household wire was around for a very short time when there was
the copper crisis in the UK caused by UDI in Rhoadesia -the UK main
supplier.

IMHO electrical fires in older UK cars was caused by inadequate individual
fusing of circuits - indeed those most likely to be accident damaged like
the lighting ones had often no fusing at all. But the cable was pretty
well common to all cars - in the UK at least. I'll do some more research.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
none wrote:
Take for example the v8 mgb's with the 3.2 litre v8 from buick. Very
rare state side but very popular back across the pond. All quality
Delco, at least compared to what Lucas stuck in 'em.)

It's actually a 3.5 litre V-8 (3528cc) or 215 cu.in. Although based on the
original Buick unit it was extensively re-engineered with a much higher
rev limit for european roads.
The version fitted to the 'B' was in a lower state of tune than the normal
car version due to the need to re-position the carbs to clear the hood. So
down some 30 bhp from the car units.

They were hardly popular in the UK, only 2591 being produced, and never
officially exported to the US, although some were sent there for
'assessment' Dunno about the Delco parts - UK ones were Lucas.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
none wrote:
As for the Lucas wiring harnesses, aluminum wire and incredibly cheap
grade vinyl insulation. Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in
smoke from harness fire?
In the very last years of production at British Leyland that damn
aluminum wire would find it's way into just about everything they
rolled off the line.

Thinking on, are you *very* sure it wasn't tin plated copper? This is (or
was) common in the UK with flexible cords - and indeed cable in the
'50s-60s. All the UK house wiring cable in the UK was this until the
switch to metric sizes.

I'm not sure why it fell out of favour. Cost might be one thing. But plain
copper certainly corrodes in a car after a period resulting in poor
connections at crimped terminals. Lucas - or rather Rists - actually
welded connectors to plain copper wiring at one point.

--
*If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in smoke from harness
fire?"

I was a passenger in a Triumph Herald that caught on fire. This
happened in 1965 or 1966.

"Three wire alternators are usually just a battery sensing device so
not difficult to modify the wiring for - unless I've got it wrong?"

It's not so much the circuit that's the issue. The problem is
mechanically fitting a GM or any other automotive alternator onto a BMW
bike.

On 8 Feb 2006 13:16:54 -0800, "Beloved Leader"
wrote:

"Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in smoke from harness
fire?"

I was a passenger in a Triumph Herald that caught on fire. This
happened in 1965 or 1966.

Right... anything from Triumph(auto) and many mg midgets, half of
Austin Healy's and Jensen Healy's later offerings as well.(All made by
the government run British Leyland group.)
Hope you got through that incident unscathed.( many came away burned,
as the fire in the TR4's usually started in the dash or firewall
wiring harness assembly.)

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:59:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
none wrote:
As for the Lucas wiring harnesses, aluminum wire and incredibly cheap
grade vinyl insulation. Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in
smoke from harness fire?
In the very last years of production at British Leyland that damn
aluminum wire would find it's way into just about everything they
rolled off the line.

Thinking on, are you *very* sure it wasn't tin plated copper? This is (or
was) common in the UK with flexible cords - and indeed cable in the
'50s-60s. All the UK house wiring cable in the UK was this until the
switch to metric sizes.

I'm not sure why it fell out of favour. Cost might be one thing. But plain
copper certainly corrodes in a car after a period resulting in poor
connections at crimped terminals. Lucas - or rather Rists - actually
welded connectors to plain copper wiring at one point.

I'm positive. I was at one time a factory certified mechanic, got my
training in England in fact. (worked for a bit at the old Abbington
carriage works and later at Morris garage.)
Absolutley Aluminum! Virtually everyone in the rank and file on both
sides of the pond who worked in the British import business hated that
the decision was made at the corporate level to go with such crappy
wire.(Just one of the many factors that led to the demise of the
business.)

As to copper corrosion, it's not the copper but the oxygen content in
the copper that causes corrosion.( or exposure to external
oxygen/water.)
Marine grade copper uses low or no oxygen copper, very expensive, as
well as silicone shielding applied using a vacumn process to exclude
surface oxy.
I've got some antiques that I've replaced the wiring with marine grade
and it's still like new after many years.(Including an old pre-war
Fluke, an early German motorbike.)
The problem with Aluminum wiring in automotive apps is that it's
britttle and a low temp metal. The heat and vibration inside the
engine compartment is sure death for Aluminum. In fact can't think of
any app that'd be good for it.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:54:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
none wrote:
Take for example the v8 mgb's with the 3.2 litre v8 from buick. Very
rare state side but very popular back across the pond. All quality
Delco, at least compared to what Lucas stuck in 'em.)

It's actually a 3.5 litre V-8 (3528cc) or 215 cu.in. Although based on the
original Buick unit it was extensively re-engineered with a much higher
rev limit for european roads.
The version fitted to the 'B' was in a lower state of tune than the normal
car version due to the need to re-position the carbs to clear the hood. So
down some 30 bhp from the car units.

They were hardly popular in the UK, only 2591 being produced, and never
officially exported to the US, although some were sent there for
'assessment' Dunno about the Delco parts - UK ones were Lucas.

Actually the 3.5 you're talking about was NEVER an import option, it
was in fact a 3.2 ltre of buick design built in Britain.( I used to
work in the plant they were made in.)
Both the 3.5 and in the final years the 3.8( overbored with different
heads) was strictly a British/European option offered in an attempt to
satisfy the sports car drivers on that side of the pond.( A necessity
actually for customers in Germany where high speed was a must what
with the minumim autobahn speed being 80mph.)
DOT regs only allowed the 3.2 and that was severly limited what with
all the smog gear and hp limitations.( I owned the 3.5 Euro version
myself. When I brought it back home in '74 customs impounded it and
made me raise the road height and install all the smog gear as well as
replace the carbs and tune it down completely. Wound up selling it to
a collector out west who could restore it to original. suppose it's
still sitting in his showroom.)

And they were offerd to the American public, though there were few
takers as it was a five grand option.( Most customers opted to have
one installed aftermarket at just about any speed/machine shop.)
My father's shop did many a conversion in fact. The main advantage was
being able to sidestep the insurance increase. Buy an early model four
cylinder MG, get it registered and insured, then do the mod.
My uncle even managed to shoehorn a 289 v8 in one (aluminum block ford
early model proprietary.) though he later had to replace the rest of
the drive train as well. ( That old banjo rear end couldn't take the
strain and on quick take offs would just do 360's)
I used to do a good trade back in the 80's upgrading Jaguars, dumping
the factory 12 cylinders and install either chevy 350's or Ford 427's.
I don't bother these days due to the liability issues.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:23:11 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
none wrote:
As for the Lucas wiring harnesses, aluminum wire and incredibly cheap
grade vinyl insulation. Or have you never seen a TR4 that'd gone up in
smoke from harness fire?
In the very last years of production at British Leyland that damn
aluminum wire would find it's way into just about everything they
rolled off the line.

I've had countless cars with Lucas electrics dating back to the early '50s
and never ever come across aluminium cable. I still own an '85 SD1 Rover.

Why they should have used this stuff for export defeats me.
In the late 60's and early 70's the british import business was coming
under heavy attack from the domestic manufacturers via lobby induced
legislation to ruin the import business.
Whenever the laws on this side changed to restrict some performance
feature or increase the import levies on foreign sports cars British
Leyland would have to cut cost on their side.(Though having worked for
them back then I believe they were perfectly capable of ruining any
car they got there hands on all by themselves. Just look at what the
did to the Austin Healy line.)
Aluminum wire was simply a cost cutting measure.


Aluminium household wire was around for a very short time when there was
the copper crisis in the UK caused by UDI in Rhoadesia -the UK main
supplier.

IMHO electrical fires in older UK cars was caused by inadequate individual
fusing of circuits - indeed those most likely to be accident damaged like
the lighting ones had often no fusing at all. But the cable was pretty
well common to all cars - in the UK at least. I'll do some more research.

In article ,
none wrote:
Right... anything from Triumph(auto) and many mg midgets, half of
Austin Healy's and Jensen Healy's later offerings as well.(All made by
the government run British Leyland group.)

The Jensen Healey wasn't made by BL.

And you make it sound like an enforced nationalization. BL was only state
owned because the component parts of it went bankrupt and allowing them to
die just wasn't politically acceptable. The same as is now happening to
your very own GM and Ford, etc. Do you think your government would allow
them simply to stop trading and close down completely because they are
losing money?

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
none wrote:
Thinking on, are you *very* sure it wasn't tin plated copper? This is
(or was) common in the UK with flexible cords - and indeed cable in the
'50s-60s. All the UK house wiring cable in the UK was this until the
switch to metric sizes.

I'm not sure why it fell out of favour. Cost might be one thing. But
plain copper certainly corrodes in a car after a period resulting in
poor connections at crimped terminals. Lucas - or rather Rists -
actually welded connectors to plain copper wiring at one point.

I'm positive. I was at one time a factory certified mechanic, got my
training in England in fact. (worked for a bit at the old Abbington
carriage works and later at Morris garage.)

When?

Absolutley Aluminum! Virtually everyone in the rank and file on both
sides of the pond who worked in the British import business hated that
the decision was made at the corporate level to go with such crappy
wire.(Just one of the many factors that led to the demise of the
business.)

I've asked around the UK car groups. And *no one* can remember aluminium
wire in the car harness.

IMHO, you're mistaken. Unless it was just used on export models.

Lucas did use aluminium windings in some starter motors, etc, and this was
successful.

As well as having owned and worked on many many cars of this period I also
read some of the classic mags. Now if ally wiring was common it would be
mentioned - as well as articles on how to replace it.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
none wrote:
Actually the 3.5 you're talking about was NEVER an import option, it
was in fact a 3.2 ltre of buick design built in Britain.( I used to
work in the plant they were made in.)

Sorry, mate, you're talking ****e. ;-)

The standard sizes of the UK Rover V-8 - only recently out of production -
are 3.5, 3.9, 4.2, 4.6. The 3.5 was in production from 1967 through to at
least '92 - and possibly later. Other sizes ran along side it.

I've never heard of a smaller capacity V-8 version - although a V-6, cut
down from the basic block was used for racing.

Specialist makers like TVR produced modified versions of this engine with
some odd sizes - but always more than 3.5 litres.

I'd suggest you get a copy of the definitive work on that engine by David
Hardcastle - The Rover V-8 Engine. It gives the history of the Buick unit
and its subsequent purchase by Rover, and all the variants and production
applications.

--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 19:36:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
none wrote:
Thinking on, are you *very* sure it wasn't tin plated copper? This is
(or was) common in the UK with flexible cords - and indeed cable in the
'50s-60s. All the UK house wiring cable in the UK was this until the
switch to metric sizes.

I'm not sure why it fell out of favour. Cost might be one thing. But
plain copper certainly corrodes in a car after a period resulting in
poor connections at crimped terminals. Lucas - or rather Rists -
actually welded connectors to plain copper wiring at one point.

I'm positive. I was at one time a factory certified mechanic, got my
training in England in fact. (worked for a bit at the old Abbington
carriage works and later at Morris garage.)

When?

"68-74
Absolutley Aluminum! Virtually everyone in the rank and file on both
sides of the pond who worked in the British import business hated that
the decision was made at the corporate level to go with such crappy
wire.(Just one of the many factors that led to the demise of the
business.)

I've asked around the UK car groups. And *no one* can remember aluminium
wire in the car harness.

IMHO, you're mistaken. Unless it was just used on export models.
That's what I said, import. You're talking to a MG certified mechanic
btw. What came stateside was by far made shoddier than what you got on
your side of the pond.

Lucas did use aluminium windings in some starter motors, etc, and this was
successful.
No they were crap.

As well as having owned and worked on many many cars of this period I also
read some of the classic mags. Now if ally wiring was common it would be
mentioned - as well as articles on how to replace it.

In article ,
none wrote:
IMHO, you're mistaken. Unless it was just used on export models.

That's what I said, import. You're talking to a MG certified mechanic
btw. What came stateside was by far made shoddier than what you got on
your side of the pond.

I find that hard to believe. ;-) They could never have left the showroom.
;-)

Have you a theory why US spec cars had aluminium wiring but not UK ones?
It makes no sense to me.

Lucas did use aluminium windings in some starter motors, etc, and this
was successful.

No they were crap.

Fine. I can only speak from my experience.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Hope you got through that incident unscathed."

It happened while we were stopped at a red light. (Back in 1965, people
used to stop for red lights, unlike today.) As soon as the the smoke
started pouring out from under the hood, we all got out fo the car OK.
One driver, and either two or three passengers, all kids on the way to
high school. I was in the back. Can't recall whether that was a
two-door car or a four-door car.

I have never owned a British car, though I've driven a few.

Wow I've learned alot more about what I was not asking about, :-)

Once when I had money I bought a 2001 Disco II, all Bosch and the
salesman was practically gushing that the days of Lucas were long gone.
So far, 60k later it's antique buick designed engine and bosch
electronics are both going strong without a single mishap of any kind.
Love it, besides the mpg, which is where the bike comes in.

Put the replacement alt. in today, works like a charm. Besides myself
shorting out the voltage regulator the device seems amazingly
simple.Does anyone know an approx MTBF on these? Seems like it should
go forever.