It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's, Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff up? I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit testing
that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP), while
the rest seem okay.

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work. Everything
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but only
one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can even
trust them for spare parts.

Whaddaya all think?

jak

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

It's available and easy to install.

N

"jakdedert" writes:

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's, Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff up? I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit testing
that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP), while
the rest seem okay.

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work. Everything
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but only
one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can even
trust them for spare parts.

Whaddaya all think?

Yeah, that sucks. Once it gets past the power supply, probably not worth
much time. And, as you say, even keeping the electronic parts is probably
worse than useless. The motors are probably good though.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:33:06 GMT, NSM wrote:

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

It's available and easy to install.

And, then the lightning strike comes in on the phone line or the cable
tv coax or the extension cord laid out to the garden fountain pump....

When it's a direct strike, your number is up.

In regards to the VCR with the malfunctioning display: what display are
you referring to? the clock display on the front or the on-screen
(menus, Status messages, timer prog setup, etc.)? let me know, maybe i
can help...

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...

And, then the lightning strike comes in on the phone line or the cable
tv coax or the extension cord laid out to the garden fountain pump....

When it's a direct strike, your number is up.

Most strikes are induced. Whole house will help in that case.

N

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"jakdedert" writes:

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's,
Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff
up? I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching
for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit
testing
that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given
that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts
off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically
working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into
SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP),
while
the rest seem okay.

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work.
Everything
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but
only
one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can
even
trust them for spare parts.

Whaddaya all think?

Yeah, that sucks. Once it gets past the power supply, probably not worth
much time. And, as you say, even keeping the electronic parts is probably
worse than useless. The motors are probably good though.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the
excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

You remember the business of the Russian's military using valve/tube stuff
well into solid state era belatedly realised to be because it is EMP
resistant.
Anyone know how ordinary domestic radios in the valve era fared with
lightning strikes ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:06:06 +0100, "N Cook"
wrote:

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"jakdedert" writes:

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's,
Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff
up? I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching
for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit
testing
that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given
that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts
off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically
working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into
SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP),
while
the rest seem okay.

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work.
Everything
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but
only
one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can
even
trust them for spare parts.

Whaddaya all think?

Yeah, that sucks. Once it gets past the power supply, probably not worth
much time. And, as you say, even keeping the electronic parts is probably
worse than useless. The motors are probably good though.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the
excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

You remember the business of the Russian's military using valve/tube stuff
well into solid state era belatedly realised to be because it is EMP
resistant.
Anyone know how ordinary domestic radios in the valve era fared with
lightning strikes ?

Very well, except for an occasional power transformer, or if a long
wire antenna was used, the rf coils would sometimes open. Chuck

Chuck wrote:
snip
You remember the business of the Russian's military using valve/tube
stuff well into solid state era belatedly realised to be because it
is EMP resistant.
Anyone know how ordinary domestic radios in the valve era fared with
lightning strikes ?

Very well, except for an occasional power transformer, or if a long
wire antenna was used, the rf coils would sometimes open. Chuck

I vividly remember a direct strike on our TV antenna when I was a toddler in
the 50's. I drew representations of it on my blackboard for years; a
cascade of dashes representing the sparks I saw falling past our front door.
I don't know how serious the damage; but I do remember Dad replacing the
antenna itself...and using that TV right up through most of the 60's until
it was scrapped for a color set.

jak

nvic wrote:
In regards to the VCR with the malfunctioning display: what display
are you referring to? the clock display on the front or the on-screen
(menus, Status messages, timer prog setup, etc.)? let me know, maybe i
can help...

Thanks. I originally said 'on board' to distinguish it from 'on screen;'
but that unit has now been determined to have survived unscathed, after a
second round of 'disconnect/reconnect' to the AC supply.

Upon that second round of diagnosis, I've discovered the issue with the
phones to be a result of a damaged outboard caller ID unit. It was
connected to only one line, but took both down. Disco'ing it fixed that
problem...scratch another device. I opened up the cel charger today--a
switching type. The resistor in series with the AC line is charred beyond
recognition and both diodes immediately past that are shorted...didn't go
any further. I'll keep the housing (nifty little unit with flip-down AC
prongs) and the stupid Sony/Ericsonn proprietary plug.....

The fax machine is the major loss. I detailed the aquisition of this here a
couple years ago. Again: an HP 3200m which I purchased at auction, with a
corrupt bios. It's showing a '79: Service Error' with the second line of
the lcd reading a cryptic 'download_modem.O'(verload?). I'll research that
to see if reflashing the BIOS might cure, but I'm not optimistic. The thing
about these units is that if one section dies *nothing* works. Now I'm out
a scanner/printer along with the fax. I learned that lesson a few years
ago, and will never purchase such (new) again; but this one was such a good
deal and has paid for itself already. Of course replacement cost might be
many times my initial investment of around $65.....

jak

NSM wrote:
"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...

And, then the lightning strike comes in on the phone line or the
cable tv coax or the extension cord laid out to the garden fountain
pump....

When it's a direct strike, your number is up.

Most strikes are induced. Whole house will help in that case.

N

I think it would certainly help to some degree. I had a similar (more
severe) loss about ten years ago. I recently aquired ownership of this
property after renting it for 17 years; so now I have much more latitude in
replacing the antiquated knob and tube electrics.

Neither strike was direct. The last one nailed a stately oak tree in the
back yard (which spreads over the house and is the highest point in the
neighborhood). This strike is as yet undetermined as to it's exact 'ground
zero'; but the actual pulse appears to have had via multiple points of
entry. It took out one unit connected solely to the AC, but also appears to
have caused damage seemingly localized to the phone line and cable as well.
In fact, based on number of devices affected, the major damage looks to be
from the phone line (two phones--three survived--fax, caller ID). I don't
know whether to attribute the TV/VCR damage to the AC, cable or some
combination...probably the latter.

Obviously, any secure whole-house protection would have to secure *all* the
copper coming into the house. I'll be looking into that. Hopefully--some
day--all but the AC will be non-conductive fiber...which will probably
introduce it's own set of issues.

And so it goes....

jak

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...

Neither strike was direct. The last one nailed a stately oak tree in the
back yard (which spreads over the house and is the highest point in the
neighborhood). This strike is as yet undetermined as to it's exact
'ground
zero'; but the actual pulse appears to have had via multiple points of
entry. It took out one unit connected solely to the AC, but also appears
to
have caused damage seemingly localized to the phone line and cable as
well.

Sounds right. See http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html

# Unlimited main breaker panel current
# Transient surge capacity - 950 joules
# Maximum surge current - 50,000A
# Response time - Instantaneous

for possible solutions.

N

If you have the time, the HP and the TV's, if reasonably large screen
size. Any evidence of ground traces being burned does not bode well...

Tom

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:14:21 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's, Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff up? I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit testing
that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP), while
the rest seem okay.

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work. Everything
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but only
one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can even
trust them for spare parts.

Whaddaya all think?

jak

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:08:05 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

Chuck wrote:
snip
You remember the business of the Russian's military using valve/tube
stuff well into solid state era belatedly realised to be because it
is EMP resistant.
Anyone know how ordinary domestic radios in the valve era fared with
lightning strikes ?

Very well, except for an occasional power transformer, or if a long
wire antenna was used, the rf coils would sometimes open. Chuck

I vividly remember a direct strike on our TV antenna when I was a toddler in
the 50's. I drew representations of it on my blackboard for years; a
cascade of dashes representing the sparks I saw falling past our front door.
I don't know how serious the damage; but I do remember Dad replacing the
antenna itself...and using that TV right up through most of the 60's until
it was scrapped for a color set.

jak


This wasn't lightning, but I had an experience once where I
encountered what I believe was one phase of a 3-phase system which was
wired to a regular 110-120 receptacle. Our entire band was plugged in,
and all gear was solid-state except for my old 50's Fender Super. It
was my practice to turn it on and let the tubes warm up before
throwing the Standby switch, and when I powered on (first, thankfully)
it emitted load groaning noises. I immediately switched it off, and
cautioned the other guys to not turn their gear on. I don't know for
sure what would've happened, but I'm pretty sure any SS gear under
that circumstance without an SMPS would've immediately been toast.
That amp also worked for many years afterwards.

Tom

"Tom MacIntyre" ha scritto nel messaggio
...

If you have the time, the HP and the TV's, if reasonably large screen
size. Any evidence of ground traces being burned does not bode well...

Argh ! If you didn't try a diagnosis you can't establish what's damaged !
Maybe the VCR are still reparable... for the phones I think that they're
junk, you can retain them to cannibalise components, but they're unusable.
The celly's charger can't be repaired : it's a too small SMPS... buy a new
one, it didn't have an high cost.

I.

"jakdedert" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

Argh !

I don't have it, and I got bitten fairly big time yesterday. Two TV's,
Two
VCR's, Two cordless phones, a laser printer/fax/scanner combo, and a cel
phone charger...so far (things keep coming up dead).

For the TVs, open them, and first control the fuse : if it's blow, change
it. You maybe lucky ! Or, if it didn't work, or the fuse re-blows, change
the bridge rectificator, and even the 110v filter cap and the line filter...
if this didn't fix, you may try to change *all* the components in the power
supply, all resistances, all caps, all inductors, the ic, all transistors,
everything. Value if this is worth the price of the TV. This may cost from
10 to 15 dollars. If the damage isn't only in the power supply, but has
affected uP, EEPROM and other ICs value if they have a low cost and then try
to change them... if they have an high cost, junk the set !

The question is: is there even any point to opening any of this stuff up?
I
mean, it was all bought second-hand to begin with, and has given me good
service. I'll bet I don't have $250 in the entire lot...but of course
acquiring replacements at that price involves a lot of waiting/searching
for
deals.

I opened one of the cordless phones (the phone won't even charge..the
handset was off hook during the strike). It appears from in-circuit
testing

They didn't charge but can take the line ? In this case, they're
recuperable, but if they didn't take the line, they're junk !

that all the transistors on the board (4 of them) are suspect. Given
that,
is there any hope that the several LSI chips on board have survived?

Read above.

One VCR is acting like it has a tape inserted, although none is...shuts
off
after trying to load the nonexistant tape. The other is basically
working,
but on-board display is scrambled, and several channels seem locked into
SAP
mode (although there is no menu option for selecting/deselecting SAP),
while
the rest seem okay.

Hum, for the second VCR with the non-functioning display : verify that there
are +33V to make the FPD work ! If they aren't present, try the diodes and
electrolytic caps on the secondary of the power supply. Also try to change
the fuseable resistors...

One TV is just flat out dead, while the other--a VCR combo--has no
picture/sound, although transport functions 'appear' to work. Everything

Test power supply, for more info reply...
affected has already been unplugged and left to unscramble itself; but
only

one piece, a Technics receiver, actually improved after that treatment.

You was lucky ;-).

The expensive all-in-one HP 2300m will probably bear at least a 'looking
into', but the rest may just be so much landfill. I don't think I can
even
trust them for spare parts.

Does it turn on ? Test the PSU ! If the damage is extended on the
mother-board you can discard it or ebay for mechanical spares that are 100%
good.

I.

Allodoxaphobia wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:33:06 GMT, NSM wrote:

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...

It's that time of year again. Yeah, I know, I know...I need whole house
surge protection....

It's available and easy to install.

And, then the lightning strike comes in on the phone line or the cable
tv coax or the extension cord laid out to the garden fountain pump....

When it's a direct strike, your number is up.

In the past few years, a tree thirty feet from my service entrance and a
tree fifty feet from my service entrance got struck. The second one lit
up the neighborhood. I had no electrical damage either time.

Six days ago my chimney got hit. The bolt blew masonry and shingles
sixty feet. I was online. My screen froze with a strange tint, but
things were fine on restart.

I lost two stereo receivers and the control board for my furnace/ac. My
battery-powered indoor/outdoor thermometer was "stunned". It recovered
when I switched from F to C and back.

My other electronics, including a shortwave plugged in with one stereo
receiver and a TV plugged in with the other, showed no damage. One
stereo receiver was on, and I suppose the surge took the amp. The other
was off, and the digital controls got wrecked.

My modem and cordless phone were fine. Across the street, the surge
from my strike took out the neighbors' modem, satellite receiver (with a
telco connection) and two phones. They went online six years ago and
have repeatedly asked why they kept losing modems and surge protectors.
I have repeatedly told them that until they bond their telco electrode
to their power electrode (NEC 250.54) they will be vulnerable to ground
surges. They have repeatedly ignored my advice and will continue to
ignore it.

I might not have lost my ac control board if I'd paid more attention to
the above article. The furnace and the compressor are on concrete
slabs, and I've never checked to see if their frames show zero ohms to
my primary grounding electrode.

Except the cellphone charger, everything the OP lost may have been
connected to a TV cable or telephone cable. I wonder if his bonding is
okay. I think I've read that sometimes cable TV has no local ground,
and before you ground your end, you must isolate it from the company
cable with a couple of baluns.