none wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:43:48 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

James Sweet wrote:
No doubt....

On a different subject; the last time I had occasion to check the
Repair FAQ regarding a lawnmower issue, (I had a shear key problem
which was easily fixed with the info contained there. Thanks, Sam)
I noticed a very interesting dialogue concerning the relative
merits of Briggs and Tecumseh small engines.

Being how it's much too late (probably) to get my $.02 in the FAQ,
I thought I'd post my opinion he

IME, Briggs motors are much more 'finicky' for starting and
maintenance, but they last longer and use much less gas and oil.

The Tecumsehs (I have two of those, and one Briggs & Stratton)
start much easier, although that's probably due to the priming
bulb which my Briggs does not have. They start using oil right
out of the box, however. I have to check and add oil on almost
every use. My Eager1 uses almost twice as much fuel to mow the
same yard as my older Briggs of the same horsepower and cut width.
I almost never have to add oil to the Briggs in an entire season.

Given the greater oil and gas consumption, I assume that the
Tecumsehs are emitting considerably more pollutants per hour of
use. The consumables only add a negligible amount to my lawn-care
costs every year; but multiplied by (however many millions) of
them out there.....

Any thoughts?

jak


Well it's hard to say these days, back when I was tinkering with
this stuff a lot I was dealing with engines made mostly in the
1970's and the Briggs motors were very noticeably better made and
easier to work on. The Tecumsehs' were nothing but a pain in the
ass, carb problems, ignition problems, a few common models would
regularly throw rods. It was no shock since they were always about
40% cheaper than a comparable B&S. Now days I don't really know,
the Tecumseh engines seem to have improved somewhat, while the
Briggs engines have gotten *very* noticeably poorer. Somebody said
they're now made in Asia so perhaps that's when the quality took a
dive. BTW the new ones do have a primer bulb, haven't tried
starting one though. My mom has an old mower with a Tecumseh and it
does actually start quite easily though I have to take apart the
carb and clean out the banjo bolt on the float bowl every year,
never had to do that with an old Briggs. Unfortunatly I never
compared fuel consumption but I don't recall oil usage problems on
either.

I've not had to pull the carb on either of my Tec's, but the Briggs
(bought new in the early 90's) is laid up until I can pull the carb
and determine if it's the cause of the hard starting. Both Tec's
have worked reliably since I aquired them, except for the shear pin,
which was result of operator error, of course. This morning I
pulled out one of them and oil was below the dipstick. (5.5 hp,
self propelled pusher...I ran two+ tanks of gas through it last
session, and oil was full when I started...need to check more often!)

However, both of them were aquired used, as opposed to the Briggs.
I wonder if they were abused in an earlier life. I had one other
many years ago, and it 'used' oil/gas as well. It might have been
old enough to have been made in the 70's...thrift store find.

I'm glad to hear Tecumseh quality is going up. Except for needing
to keep a close watch on the oil, and seemingly needing to fill gas
more often, both of these mowers have been relatively flawless.

It's also a shame about Briggs & Stratton. The first engine I ever
worked on was a horizontal shaft Briggs which came off my dads old
reel-type power mower from the 50's. I pulled it off the mower some
time in the mid-60's, used a pipe wrench to break the rings free and
mounted it on a go-cart. It was too small for the application at a
(maybe two, it's been a long time) horse and a half, but it ran well.

jak

Yes the earlier Techumsehs did have a problem regards to burning oil.
They were built terribly cheap way back.
And yep, the earlier B&S engines were built like a tank.
The problem with using the older Briggs horizontal shaft motors for
go-carts or minibikes was they had low rpms and not much torque.
The ones they marketed specifically for that purpose were setup tp
spin a bit faster and had higher compression.
You could fudge a bit with some of the 3hp models by resetting the
mean idle on the govenor springs and either rejetting the carb for
quicker response or replacing it with a bigger throated one so the
engine could breath a bit better.
Using a low hp engine like a 2 or a 2 and a half you'd have had to
change out the drive sprocket for a much larger one to make it an easy
pull. Which of course would have made it as slow as a turtle.

Which it was...it could barely get out of it's own way g.

jak

On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:16:09 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

none wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:43:48 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

James Sweet wrote:
No doubt....

On a different subject; the last time I had occasion to check the
Repair FAQ regarding a lawnmower issue, (I had a shear key problem
which was easily fixed with the info contained there. Thanks, Sam)
I noticed a very interesting dialogue concerning the relative
merits of Briggs and Tecumseh small engines.

Being how it's much too late (probably) to get my $.02 in the FAQ,
I thought I'd post my opinion he

IME, Briggs motors are much more 'finicky' for starting and
maintenance, but they last longer and use much less gas and oil.

The Tecumsehs (I have two of those, and one Briggs & Stratton)
start much easier, although that's probably due to the priming
bulb which my Briggs does not have. They start using oil right
out of the box, however. I have to check and add oil on almost
every use. My Eager1 uses almost twice as much fuel to mow the
same yard as my older Briggs of the same horsepower and cut width.
I almost never have to add oil to the Briggs in an entire season.

Given the greater oil and gas consumption, I assume that the
Tecumsehs are emitting considerably more pollutants per hour of
use. The consumables only add a negligible amount to my lawn-care
costs every year; but multiplied by (however many millions) of
them out there.....

Any thoughts?

jak


Well it's hard to say these days, back when I was tinkering with
this stuff a lot I was dealing with engines made mostly in the
1970's and the Briggs motors were very noticeably better made and
easier to work on. The Tecumsehs' were nothing but a pain in the
ass, carb problems, ignition problems, a few common models would
regularly throw rods. It was no shock since they were always about
40% cheaper than a comparable B&S. Now days I don't really know,
the Tecumseh engines seem to have improved somewhat, while the
Briggs engines have gotten *very* noticeably poorer. Somebody said
they're now made in Asia so perhaps that's when the quality took a
dive. BTW the new ones do have a primer bulb, haven't tried
starting one though. My mom has an old mower with a Tecumseh and it
does actually start quite easily though I have to take apart the
carb and clean out the banjo bolt on the float bowl every year,
never had to do that with an old Briggs. Unfortunatly I never
compared fuel consumption but I don't recall oil usage problems on
either.

I've not had to pull the carb on either of my Tec's, but the Briggs
(bought new in the early 90's) is laid up until I can pull the carb
and determine if it's the cause of the hard starting. Both Tec's
have worked reliably since I aquired them, except for the shear pin,
which was result of operator error, of course. This morning I
pulled out one of them and oil was below the dipstick. (5.5 hp,
self propelled pusher...I ran two+ tanks of gas through it last
session, and oil was full when I started...need to check more often!)

However, both of them were aquired used, as opposed to the Briggs.
I wonder if they were abused in an earlier life. I had one other
many years ago, and it 'used' oil/gas as well. It might have been
old enough to have been made in the 70's...thrift store find.

I'm glad to hear Tecumseh quality is going up. Except for needing
to keep a close watch on the oil, and seemingly needing to fill gas
more often, both of these mowers have been relatively flawless.

It's also a shame about Briggs & Stratton. The first engine I ever
worked on was a horizontal shaft Briggs which came off my dads old
reel-type power mower from the 50's. I pulled it off the mower some
time in the mid-60's, used a pipe wrench to break the rings free and
mounted it on a go-cart. It was too small for the application at a
(maybe two, it's been a long time) horse and a half, but it ran well.

jak

Yes the earlier Techumsehs did have a problem regards to burning oil.
They were built terribly cheap way back.
And yep, the earlier B&S engines were built like a tank.
The problem with using the older Briggs horizontal shaft motors for
go-carts or minibikes was they had low rpms and not much torque.
The ones they marketed specifically for that purpose were setup tp
spin a bit faster and had higher compression.
You could fudge a bit with some of the 3hp models by resetting the
mean idle on the govenor springs and either rejetting the carb for
quicker response or replacing it with a bigger throated one so the
engine could breath a bit better.
Using a low hp engine like a 2 or a 2 and a half you'd have had to
change out the drive sprocket for a much larger one to make it an easy
pull. Which of course would have made it as slow as a turtle.

Which it was...it could barely get out of it's own way g.

jak


Just a thought but if you want to make that scooter fly try finding a
Honda or Toyo horizontal shaft motor.
You can usually get them off pressure washers with bad pumps as those
motors can't be killed short of running them with NO oil and they are
usually high horse powered, 7 to 12.
These motors have high spin and good torque and can get that bike up
to 50mph.( I'd done that for so local yahoo a couple years back for
his camp mini-bike. Saw him last month and he had a pronounced limp so
I guess he got all the speed he wanted.)

none wrote:


Just a thought but if you want to make that scooter fly try finding a
Honda or Toyo horizontal shaft motor.
You can usually get them off pressure washers with bad pumps as those
motors can't be killed short of running them with NO oil and they are
usually high horse powered, 7 to 12.
These motors have high spin and good torque and can get that bike up
to 50mph.( I'd done that for so local yahoo a couple years back for
his camp mini-bike. Saw him last month and he had a pronounced limp so
I guess he got all the speed he wanted.)

You must've missed the part about the sixties. That kart is long gone, now.
I think it crashed when we were pulling it with a horse. Riders (both the
one on the horse, and--thankfully--the one on the cart as well) got off for
refreshments, and the horse decided to make an unscheduled run. I believe a
fence post did it in...stopped the horse, though.

Kids. Somehow I wonder how we survived.....

jak

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:09:56 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

none wrote:


Just a thought but if you want to make that scooter fly try finding a
Honda or Toyo horizontal shaft motor.
You can usually get them off pressure washers with bad pumps as those
motors can't be killed short of running them with NO oil and they are
usually high horse powered, 7 to 12.
These motors have high spin and good torque and can get that bike up
to 50mph.( I'd done that for so local yahoo a couple years back for
his camp mini-bike. Saw him last month and he had a pronounced limp so
I guess he got all the speed he wanted.)

You must've missed the part about the sixties. That kart is long gone, now.
I think it crashed when we were pulling it with a horse. Riders (both the
one on the horse, and--thankfully--the one on the cart as well) got off for
refreshments, and the horse decided to make an unscheduled run. I believe a
fence post did it in...stopped the horse, though.

Kids. Somehow I wonder how we survived.....

jak

Hey you think that's crazy.
When we were youngsters we hijacked my older sister's roller skates
cut off the boots and used them to "body skate".
Simply sit on the skate, then lie flat out with your feet supsended
straight out in front of you (inches above the ground) and head off
down that big hill.
What made it dangerous for us was that big hill was a street with
several stop signs along the way.
Sure made alot of cross traffic stop and do a double take, to see a
kid sailing down the hill on his ass at about 30 miles an hour.
Of course the bottom of the hill took a sharp right turn AND had a
telephone pole on the corner.(made for lots of scrapes and bruises)